Nintendo says the transition to its next console wants to be ‘as smooth as possible’

[MysticGon]

Isn’t that the case still nowadays? I don’t see the issue when is already the situation Nintendo is found nowadays

It's excusable now because of the power differential. If the new hardware eliminates the gap between Nintendo hardware and even a base Xbox One which can still run the full fat versions of games currently on eShop it would would be a disappointment. A path to those better versions would be great whether through patches, Xbox style Smart Delivery or PlayStation style dual versions on the same store.

Chip away how? I don’t see the two consoles being any of those. PC has Deck but I don’t think that will ever really be the Switch killer most people think even in the future. Outside that is what exactly that is encroaching on what the Switch is doing.

I just don’t think most people are going to care because even if Nintendo makes a robust BC solution it would still depend on devs/pubs to update their games. As we have seen from big & small alike not all of them will or even want to.

Series S is giving people serious pause when shopping for a new console be it PlayStation or Nintendo as the sales are starting to show. Especially as Switch starts it's sales descent and PS5 is still hard to find. Once PS5 shipments improve that's just another front that has opened up.

That's not a hardship for Nintendo in general but it could steal some of it's thunder as a indie machine. Especially if for the same price you can have better versions of third party legacy games with the promise of newer releases. Deck isn't going to gobble up all of Switch's portable appeal. It might not gobble up any but the frequency of which I am hearing about Deck clones is increasing. The implications of that might make themselves apparent within this decade.

I'm pretty confident Nintendo favors the Switch's success over the Gamecube's failure.

I'm also unsure as to how competitors are supposed chipping away at the Switch - the SteamDeck is not anywhere close to being a Switch killer if that's what you were trying to imply.

See above.

 

[awng782]

Doesn't really change anything I've said. If your main concern is performance of 3rd party content, Nintendo platforms haven't been a consideration for the last 20 years.

 

[MysticGon]

Doesn't really change anything I've said. If your main concern is performance of 3rd party content, Nintendo platforms haven't been a consideration for the last 20 years.

Except that has been turning around in the Switch era. Nintendo is making a concerted effort to lock people into their ecosystem, forging long-term relationships and preempting any potential exodus of fleeing customers when they announce their next console is peddle-powered.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Except that has been turning around in the Switch era. Nintendo is making a concerted effort to lock people into their ecosystem, forging long-term relationships and preempting any potential exodus of fleeing customers when they announce their next console is peddle-powered.

this and what you're talking about don't have much to do with each other. this is just Nintendo saying, in a round about way, you're purchases on switch will carry over

 

[Pancracio17]

Enhanced BC on the next Switch would be really nice, but I dont think Nintendos gonna do it. Outside of things that will automatically fix themselves with better hardware like frame drops or dynamic resolution, games will probably stick with the same settings as before unless they get an actual patch. Doing something like Xbox BC with enhanced games is too much for something Nintendo would rather not even do tbh.

 

[MysticGon]

this and what you're talking about don't have much to do with each other. this is just Nintendo saying, in a round about way, you're purchases on switch will carry over

That is exactly what I'm talking about. A library that outlasts hardware is great unless you know you are playing an inferior version of multiplatform games on hardware capable of running better versions.

 

[awng782]

That is exactly what I'm talking about. A library that outlasts hardware is great unless you know you are playing an inferior version of multiplatform games on hardware capable of running better versions.

This seems like a concern that will impact very, very few people. If you have invested in multiplatform content on Switch then you have already accepted that you'll be getting the inferior version of those games. A Switch successor supporting backwards compatible won't change that.

 

[tentacle-tropes]

That is exactly what I'm talking about. A library that outlasts hardware is great unless you know you are playing an inferior version of multiplatform games on hardware capable of running better versions.

This doesn’t seem like an issue for the vast majority of people & really only affects certain enthusiasts. At which point they either upgrade to stronger hardware or drop completely from the ecosystem because this will always be a problem with Nintendo.

 

[MysticGon]

This seems like a concern that will impact very, very few people. If you have invested in multiplatform content on Switch then you have already accepted that you'll be getting the inferior version of those games. A Switch successor supporting backwards compatible won't change that.

This doesn’t seem like an issue for the vast majority of people & really only affects certain enthusiasts. At which point they either upgrade to stronger hardware or drop completely from the ecosystem because this will always be a problem with Nintendo.

Nintendo having a robust digital store is new. Nintendo getting a lot of multiplatform support is new. Those multiplatform games being playable in portable is new.

It would be a mistake if Nintendo rested on their laurels and let the novelty of that fade away.

 

[tentacle-tropes]

Nintendo having a robust digital store is new. Nintendo getting a lot of multiplatform support is new. Those multiplatform games being playable in portable is new.

It would be a mistake if Nintendo rested on their laurels and let the novelty of that fade away.

So without a MST style enhanced bc solution how do you propose Nintendo force 3rd party devs/pubs to update their games in ways that are not the “inferior versions” outside of frame rate & resolution? Because I can already answer the question for you in that very few will update their game & it will still be seen as the “inferior version.”

As already stated the vast majority of the audience buying Switch know what they are getting into with 3rd party releases. As long as people are satisfied with the releases, enhancements, & the ability to carry purchases over for the foreseeable future I don’t see an issue here.

 

[ILikeFeet]

That is exactly what I'm talking about. A library that outlasts hardware is great unless you know you are playing an inferior version of multiplatform games on hardware capable of running better versions.

guess what, people do know that the switch is weaker

they don't care

 

[awng782]

Nintendo having a robust digital store is new. Nintendo getting a lot of multiplatform support is new. Those multiplatform games being playable in portable is new.

It would be a mistake if Nintendo rested on their laurels and let the novelty of that fade away.

So your solution to all of this is for Nintendo to make a powerful dedicated Switch-compatible home console that competes directly against PS/XB to satisfy the tiny percentage of players who are unsatisfied with inferior multiplatform 3rd party content Nintendo platforms, rather than iterating on their current massively successful Switch platform with a more powerful successor that supports backwards compatibility AND maintains the hybrid form factor?

Seems like a terrible idea IMO...

 

[Blue Monty]

So your solution to all of this is for Nintendo to make a powerful dedicated home console that competes directly against PS/XB to satisfy the tiny percentage of players who are unsatisfied with inferior multiplatform 3rd party content on Switch, rather than iterating on their current massively successful Switch platform with a more powerful successor that supports backwards compatibility AND maintains the hybrid form factor?

The solution is either with Nintendo own resources make Switch 2 cappeable of making games run better without third parties having to do anything (like Xbox has with some BC titles) or support third parties so they make updated versions of their games on the new hardware.

While I agree it’s a good idea I don’t think Nintendo has any way to do it for most third parties that have developed games on the Switch so Switch will be trapped with ‘outdated’ version of these games , Nintendo should focus on the 1st party games to get these type of updates , the most important third party games (MH:Rise, AoC , SMT V , SoS , etc) and especially f2p/GaaS games (Apex,Fornite and Rocket League) and just accept most titles will not get an update

 

[balgajo]

So your solution to all of this is for Nintendo to make a powerful dedicated Switch-compatible home console that competes directly against PS/XB to satisfy the tiny percentage of players who are unsatisfied with inferior multiplatform 3rd party content Nintendo platforms, rather than iterating on their current massively successful Switch platform with a more powerful successor that supports backwards compatibility AND maintains the hybrid form factor?

Seems like a terrible idea IMO...

It doens't need necessarily to be one thing or another.

I'd love if they really implemented that ecosystem idea from NX days and their next hardware family includes:

Portable Only
Hybrid
Home(play first party at better specs and possibly current PS/Xbox gen third-party)

Portable and Hybrid could run third-party via cloud using servers with same Home architecture.

Seeing how much PC games are selling these days I'm sure there's a significant market to attack for people that want better specs.

 

[MysticGon]

So without a MST style enhanced bc solution how do you propose Nintendo force 3rd party devs/pubs to update their games in ways that are not the “inferior versions” outside of frame rate & resolution? Because I can already answer the question for you in that very few will update their game & it will still be seen as the “inferior version.”

As already stated the vast majority of the audience buying Switch know what they are getting into with 3rd party releases. As long as people are satisfied with the releases, enhancements, & the ability to carry purchases over for the foreseeable future I don’t see an issue here.

Inferior as fuck.

It would be cool if Nintendo managed to find a way to run PC code on Switch with plugins specific to their platform. Maybe work something out with the guy that thinks they a jewel of the industry worthy of protection. Make it as easy as possible for devs to take the stuff they have already worked on and bring it over. Then charge an upgrade fee and try to add support for a more universal cloud save system.

guess what, people do know that the switch is weaker

they don't care

Because of the novelty...

So your solution to all of this is for Nintendo to make a powerful dedicated Switch-compatible home console that competes directly against PS/XB to satisfy the tiny percentage of players who are unsatisfied with inferior multiplatform 3rd party content Nintendo platforms, rather than iterating on their current massively successful Switch platform with a more powerful successor that supports backwards compatibility AND maintains the hybrid form factor?

Seems like a terrible idea IMO...

No.

 

[tentacle-tropes]

Inferior as fuck.

It would be cool if Nintendo managed to find a way to run PC code on Switch with plugins specific to their platform. Maybe work something out with the guy that thinks they a jewel of the industry worthy of protection. Make it as easy as possible for devs to take the stuff they have already worked on and bring it over. Then charge an upgrade fee and try to add support for a more universal cloud save system.

Yeah that just sounds unfeasible from Nintendo’s perspective. As it currently stands they are on the easiest path which seems to be let the dev/pub decide if they wanna upgrade + the newer hardware will smooth out some stuff. And, they do have a universal cloud system but as always Nintendo leaves it up to individual teams to decide if they wanna use it or not.

It doens't need necessarily to be one thing or another.

I'd love if they really implemented that ecosystem idea from NX days and their next hardware family includes:

Portable Only
Hybrid
Home(play first party at better specs and possibly current PS/Xbox gen third-party)

Portable and Hybrid could run third-party via cloud using servers with same Home architecture.

Seeing how much PC games are selling these days I'm sure there's a significant market to attack for people that want better specs.

I don’t see Nintendo making a home variant with stronger hardware. It will be whatever docked profile is on their most current machine. While I think there is a market for those who want better specs, I don’t think that market is very big.

 

[ILikeFeet]

we're getting into some ridiculous asks here, what the hell

 

[storres]

If Nintendo makes a stationary version of Switch/Switch 2, it will go in-line with their Lite and Hybrid versions in terms of power.

 

[EnergyDrink]

Portable and Hybrid could run third-party via cloud using servers with same Home architecture.

Because people buy a portable console and are happy to only play when there is fantastic and lag free internet connection available?

Cloud gaming is at least two decades (and some major chances in internet technology) away from becoming a reliable alternative for dedicated consoles even in most rich countries (not to mention the insane prices for internet in many countries that are even rising and hindering cloud gaming too).

Anyway there has been relatively reliable rumors about the Nvidia hardware for the Switch successor, so porting even titles from xbox, the most powerful current console, should be possible.

 

[balgajo]

Because people buy a portable console and are happy to only play when there is fantastic and lag free internet connection available?

Cloud gaming is at least two decades (and some major chances in internet technology) away from becoming a reliable alternative for dedicated consoles even in most rich countries (not to mention the insane prices for internet in many countries that are even rising and hindering cloud gaming too).

Anyway there has been relatively reliable rumors about the Nvidia hardware for the Switch successor, so porting even titles from xbox, the most powerful current console, should be possible.

They are already doing it with current Switch.

Nintendo Switch Cloud Games List

Every Cloud Version game on Switch

www.nintendolife.com

 

[awng782]

Playing games on a handheld is not a "novelty".

 

[BTB123]

They are already doing it with current Switch.

Nintendo Switch Cloud Games List

Every Cloud Version game on Switch

www.nintendolife.com

Yes they are already doing it, but it's not a reliable alternative yet because of lag and therefore not very popular.

 

[asperatology]

Yes they are already doing it, but it's not a reliable alternative yet because of lag and therefore not very popular.

I think it's more than just lag that's contributing to them not being popular.

 

[BTB123]

I think it's more than just lag that's contributing to them not being popular.

Lag is an issue that will eventually go away. Many people take issue with the servers for these cloud based games eventually going offline, whenever that may happen, which leads to people not feeling like they own these games. That issue will never go away.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Lag is an issue that will eventually go away. Many people take issue with the servers for these cloud based games eventually going offline, whenever that may happen, which leads to people not feeling like they own these games. That issue will never go away.

lag is gonna be an issue as long as infrastructure will be a problem for the less fortunate

 

[balgajo]

Yes they are already doing it, but it's not a reliable alternative yet because of lag and therefore not very popular.

Don't agree with the idea of lag being the reason for not being popular. The same way a lot of people don't care about framerate and resolution, a small lag wouldn't be a problem for them. Of course there are regions where it is unacceptable.

My point is that Nintendo could continue using this current philosophy of having some cloud only third-party releases for portable/hybrid console. And the home version could play those games locally. And of course third-party would still be porting some of the games natively to the hybrid and portable only version.

 

[tentacle-tropes]

Don't agree with the idea of lag being the reason for not being popular. The same way a lot of people don't care about framerate and resolution, a small lag wouldn't be a problem for them. Of course there are regions where it is unacceptable.

My point is that Nintendo could continue using this current philosophy of having some cloud only third-party releases for portable/hybrid console. And the home version could play those games locally. And of course third-party would still be porting some of the games natively to the hybrid and portable only version.

It’s not a small amount of lag for any of the games really. Here is DF’s take on them:


Suffice to say they are just not great products all around. There are reasons cloud gaming has yet to catch on & it’s due to numerous small reasons that all add up to an “inferior” product.

I don’t see 3rd parties splitting their release like that. They are either native, cloud, or not at all. I don’t see Nintendo wanting that to happen either as that would disproportionately favor a Home variant; also would put Nintendo back where they were with the home/portable console divide again.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Heh, Switch has been underpowered since it launched. I would say that sales show it doesn't matter, but actually the sales show it does matter. A powerful console is an objectively bad idea. Powerful consoles like the N64 and Gamecube do not work out so well for Nintendo. On the other hand weak consoles like the Wii, the Switch and all of their handhelds work out extremely well for Nintendo. Nintendo does not need a powerful system, and they do better when they don't have one.

 

[ILikeFeet]

It’s not a small amount of lag for any of the games really. Here is DF’s take on them:


Suffice to say they are just not great products all around. There are reasons cloud gaming has yet to catch on & it’s due to numerous small reasons that all add up to an “inferior” product.

I don’t see 3rd parties splitting their release like that. They are either native, cloud, or not at all. I don’t see Nintendo wanting that to happen either as that would disproportionately favor a Home variant; also would put Nintendo back where they were with the home/portable console divide again.

Digital Foundry covered this again in their DF direct and they don't expect things to change on the sale of half a decade if not more since infrastructure isn't oft upgraded

 

[balgajo]

It’s not a small amount of lag for any of the games really. Here is DF’s take on them:


Suffice to say they are just not great products all around. There are reasons cloud gaming has yet to catch on & it’s due to numerous small reasons that all add up to an “inferior” product.

I don’t see 3rd parties splitting their release like that. They are either native, cloud, or not at all. I don’t see Nintendo wanting that to happen either as that would disproportionately favor a Home variant; also would put Nintendo back where they were with the home/portable console divide again.

They can solve those problems by the time next gen arrives. The home/portable console divide isn't a problem by itself. Main problem with their previous approach was the need of supporting both plaftforms with a different software line-up.

But all of that third-party talk is really hypothetical as I have no idea how they could make third-parties interested on releasing a Nintendo port alongside PC, PS, Xbox. The core concept of a future home console is playing portable games at better specs(no first-party exclusive) and target the audience that play on PC(usually people who cares about resolution, framerate, good assets).

 

[tentacle-tropes]

They can solve those problems by the time next gen arrives. The home/portable console divide isn't a problem by itself. Main problem with their previous approach was the need of supporting both plaftforms with a different software line-up.

But all of that third-party talk is really hypothetical as I have no idea how they could make third-parties interested on releasing a Nintendo port alongside PC, PS, Xbox. The core concept of a future home console is playing portable games at better specs(no first-party exclusive) and target the audience that play on PC(usually people who cares about resolution, framerate, good assets).

They cannot solve cloud infrastructure by the time next gen rolls around so the problems we see with cloud now will still persist. And, that problem is going to repeat itself. Companies are not going to spend time to make a native port for stronger hardware while also putting it on the cloud for portable/hybrid.

Again I don’t see Nintendo making a stronger Home only variant that would only really cater to a very small crowd as anyone who wants better looking 3rd parties already have the machines to do so. And, if they are really desperate to play Nintendo games at higher res+frame rate & all the bells n’whistles then they already probably emulate. Any Home only machine is probably using the current docked profile of their latest machine is my best guess.

 

[Terrell]

Heh, Switch has been underpowered since it launched. I would say that sales show it doesn't matter, but actually the sales show it does matter. A powerful console is an objectively bad idea. Powerful consoles like the N64 and Gamecube do not work out so well for Nintendo. On the other hand weak consoles like the Wii, the Switch and all of their handhelds work out extremely well for Nintendo. Nintendo does not need a powerful system, and they do better when they don't have one.

I don't think hardware processor capability was exactly the problem for them in either case, it's a correlation-causation argument.
This is not to say that they can sell a gaming device purely on hardware processor capability, because they absolutely can't and shouldn't. But I don't see greater increases in operational capability as inherently poisonous to Nintendo hardware sales success.
All that said, I don't expect hardware to be released that's a direct match for PS5 or even necessarily Xbox Series S, but I do expect a much larger technological capability gap between Switch and the next hardware release than we saw between Wii U and Switch or even Wii and Wii U, if only because of the advancements Nvidia has made in performance of their chips in the intervening time between 2015 when the Tegra X1 was developed and today in ways that don't dramatically interfere with cost.

 

[mariodk18]

Some people really like saying the Switch will never get third party support no matter what and that Nintendo never cared about it. Just a thing I noticed recently.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I don't think hardware processor capability was exactly the problem for them in either case, it's a correlation-causation argument.
This is not to say that they can sell a gaming device purely on hardware processor capability, because they absolutely can't and shouldn't. But I don't see greater increases in operational capability as inherently poisonous to Nintendo hardware sales success.
All that said, I don't expect hardware to be released that's a direct match for PS5 or even necessarily Xbox Series S, but I do expect a much larger technological capability gap between Switch and the next hardware release than we saw between Wii U and Switch or even Wii and Wii U, if only because of the advancements Nvidia has made in performance of their chips in the intervening time between 2015 when the Tegra X1 was developed and today in ways that don't dramatically interfere with cost.

You are right in that it may be a correlation, because I think the true causation is higher development costs. If development costs are kept down then Nintendo can make more games, and they have no problem making popular games with lower development costs. However, when the hardware is more powerful it does tend to drive those development costs up, because the development teams are trying to get the best performance possible with the hardware they making the game for.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

So forever stuck with inferior versions like I said earlier.

Ehh. Especially smaller games from smaller developers, there's less difference between Switch and PS4/PS5 versions to begin with. Maybe Stardew Valley and Shovel Knight get some update to scale better to 4K or whatever, but not many would even notice. Making major changes to thousands of games isn't to be expected, but as long as the big ones that have been living entities for years like Minecraft and Fortnite do that's most people happy.

 

[asperatology]

Some people really like saying the Switch will never get third party support no matter what and that Nintendo never cared about it. Just a thing I noticed recently.

Probably either in denial, or they are fans of specific 3rd party publishers who have a history of not publishing any releases on the Nintendo platforms.

 

[real_mikebarnes]

So your solution to all of this is for Nintendo to make a powerful dedicated Switch-compatible home console that competes directly against PS/XB to satisfy the tiny percentage of players who are unsatisfied with inferior multiplatform 3rd party content Nintendo platforms, rather than iterating on their current massively successful Switch platform with a more powerful successor that supports backwards compatibility AND maintains the hybrid form factor?

Seems like a terrible idea IMO...

Nintendo aren't completely braindead especially in the Furukawa era. They aren't unwise to what is happening at Playstation.