The reasons and consequences of the decline of Playstation in Japan [UPDATE: New Guidelines]

[Remember_spinal]

And you don't see how that threatens SIE in Japan even more than they currently are?

We see NSW exclusive titles chewing up the all time domestic charts in Japan and have drawn the reasonable conclusion that Nintendo software is what the market wants.

For those who must have the AAA, Playstation is there with those titles for you.

Now imagine if Switch Deux comes out explosively, selling at a rate faster than NSW and DS combined.
And it gets those same AAA that many felt were too vigorous for the NSW? And worst yet, they do well.
Not well with an asterisk but just great of their own merit?

That's the nightmare scenario.

If the 3P swallowed the loss of the domestic market because the global one is much bigger, how do you reconcile that against something that feeds well both home and abroad?

Of course this is all supposition at the moment.

Switch Deux could land like a wet fart and reinforce the Nintendo boom and bust cycle.

But the scary thought is...what if it doesn't?

Nothing changes because publishers aren’t going to drop another platform that sells incredibly well internationally just because of domestic sales, especially when those publishers are experiencing record sales across seas this past generation. It will be a Dragon Quest XI scenario, or what we’re seeing happening with Monster Hunter.

Nothing to me has said that Sony is looking for market dominance in Japan over Nintendo. I see them trying to make up for console sales with mobile and F2P if anything, not premium game titles.

Everything Sony moneyhats from japan are games that perform well in the west.

 

[mariodk18]

PS has had the same problem as the GameCube since the PS3: all thriller and no filler. It's like if your only choice of entertainment was big, blockbuster movies (particularly those aimed at the 18-34 male audience). You need the variety that comes with TV shows, multi-season epics and reality TV and everything in between. Cooking shows, sports, documentaries, etc. PS3 lost most, if not all, of that content to the PSP and mostly the DS and they never recovered it (especially since a large chunk went to mobile as well).

It's a secret and also not a secret that has stood the test of time: software sells hardware. And PS hasn't had the software or even the focus on diversity that they once had in the early PS1/PS2/PSP days. Every year, you can count on your two hands the AAA titles that skip Switch, but I can almost guarantee you that you'd need dozens or hundreds of hands to count the titles that have skipped PS4/PS5 in favor of 3DS and Switch.

Where was Yokai Watch or DQ on PS? FF fell off pretty hard on PS3 and took forever to arrive on PS4.Where's Ring Fit? What about Momotaro? Monster Hunter was basically entirely absent from PS3, which the Wii and 3DS later took for at least 5 years!

And here's the other thing. Even if PS had some of these titles, guess what? The Switch has/had them, too and that makes a big difference!

And finally, the bigger question. What happened to (the equivalent of) Sony's inner Nintendo? You might laugh, but when you look at the last few years of software sales, it's clear that Nintendo offers something different and unique that Sony just doesn't have.

 

[Agent42]

Nothing changes because publishers aren’t going to drop another platform that sells incredibly well internationally just because of domestic sales, especially when those publishers are experiencing record sales across seas this past generation. It will be a Dragon Quest XI scenario, or what we’re seeing happening with Monster Hunter.

Nothing to me has said that Sony is looking for market dominance in Japan over Nintendo. I see them trying to make up for console sales with mobile and F2P if anything, not premium game titles.

Everything Sony moneyhats from japan are games that perform well in the west.

The problem of selling incredibly well internationally, on the software side, is not the same level as ps4: 16% down on the software side and have more first-party software sales too.

The software sales of Ps4+ Ps5 were reducing when comparison ps4 peak years too.

 

[Remember_spinal]

Honestly, I just don’t get the constant Sony vs Nintendo sentiment thats persuasive in this thread. It feels like two companies that couldn’t be any more distinct from each other.

Nintendo has been self sustaining for generations now, wheres the crossover?

 

[mariodk18]

Honestly, I just don’t get the constant Sony vs Nintendo sentiment thats persuasive in this thread. It feels like two companies that couldn’t be any more distinct from each other.

Nintendo has been self sustaining for generations now, wheres the crossover?

Sony played a big role in the decline of Nintendo back in the 90s. Now the opposite is happening. Who else are we supposed to compare them to? Their performance hasn't occurred in a vacuum.

 

[RDragon]

Sony played a big role in the decline of Nintendo back in the 90s. Now the opposite is happening. Who else are we supposed to compare them to? Their performance hasn't occurred in a vacuum.

Not really since Sony's decline in Japan has nothing to do with Nintendo. It's all self-inflicted, while Sony actively destroyed the monopoly Nintendo had not only in Japan, but also in the US.

 

[Remember_spinal]

Sony played a big role in the decline of Nintendo back in the 90s. Now the opposite is happening. Who else are we supposed to compare them to? Their performance hasn't occurred in a vacuum.

The gaming industry was a fraction of the size it is now back then. There’s absolutely no reason for Sony and Nintendo to but heads at this point. There are so many different markets and audience to sell games to its not really an either or situation. If anything it should be Sega that has more of a bone to pick with Sony rather than Nintendo, as they were both competing with the same media formats at the time.

Someone’s marketshare doesn’t have to greatly decrease for someone else’s to grow, and yes I know we’re specifically speaking about Japan here but theres some extrapolation into Nintendo having to ‘wrestle back” mindshare of the western audience which is confusing to me because both platforms are leading in different regions in the west. Theres no territorial battle happening as far a I can see.

Until Sony or someone in the industry comes out and mentions that they are actively money hatting games away from Nintendo I don’t see the argument. Everything Sony goes out of its way to pay money for in Japan is to keep it off Xbox in the west.

I just saw Sifu is releasing on Xbox in March, but it released on Nintendo a few months ago last month already. I doubt there was anything in place keeping it off the Switch. It probably just took extra time to down port it.

 

[Kenka]

You guys are right about software.

One way for Sony to make a comeback in Japan is to finally propose first party games that appeal to Japanese customers. Alas, we know what happened to Japan Studio, which means that any effort in that regard has been pushed back years.

 

[mariodk18]

The gaming industry was a fraction of the size it is now back then. There’s absolutely no reason for Sony and Nintendo to but heads at this point. There are so many different markets and audience to sell games to its not really an either or situation. If anything it should be Sega that has more of a bone to pick with Sony rather than Nintendo, as they were both competing with the same media formats at the time.

Someone’s marketshare doesn’t have to greatly decrease for someone else’s to grow, and yes I know we’re specifically speaking about Japan here but theres some extrapolation into Nintendo having to ‘wrestle back” mindshare of the western audience which is confusing to me because both platforms are leading in different regions in the west. Theres no territorial battle happening as far a I can see.

Until Sony or someone in the industry comes out and mentions that they are actively money hatting games away from Nintendo I don’t see the argument. Everything Sony goes out of its way to pay money for in Japan is to keep it off Xbox in the west.

I just saw Sifu is releasing on Xbox in March, but it released on Nintendo a few months ago last month already. I doubt there was anything in place keeping it off the Switch. It probably just took extra time to down port it.

Nintendo making a hybrid platform with standardized controls, decent enough power, and the fact that it was easy to develop for with great engine support definitely helped grab more third party support. Multi plats inherently hold more value on average on Switch not only because of the hardware, but because Nintendo platforms have...well Nintendo games.

Do you get the hybrid platform with Splatoon, Pokemon, MH, Ring Fit, AC, MK, Momotaro, etc. or the stationary console with...? Like those konami baseball games that used to be PS exclusive? They're multiplat now and that takes away consumers from PS.

 

[Remember_spinal]

Nintendo making a hybrid platform with standardized controls, decent enough power, and the fact that it was easy to develop for with great engine support definitely helped grab more third party support. Multi plats inherently hold more value on average on Switch not only because of the hardware, but because Nintendo platforms have...well Nintendo games.

Do you get the hybrid platform with Splatoon, Pokemon, MH, Ring Fit, AC, MK, Momotaro, etc. or the stationary console with...? Like those konami baseball games that used to be PS exclusive? They're multiplat now and that takes away consumers from PS.

But like, I don’t even understand the point you’re trying to make. They don’t even get most of the same third party games currently and Sony makes the bulk of its revenue from in-game purchases.

I feel like you’re fighting a war that doesn’t exist. Just sounds like some of you would prefer playstation not exist

 

[Joseki]

.

 

[Oregano]

Regardless of anything else both Sony and Nintendo absolutely, 100% make deals for exclusives that exclude the other.

 

[Aostia82]

Not really since Sony's decline in Japan has nothing to do with Nintendo. It's all self-inflicted.

I'm pretty sure this is not exactly supported by market facts and numbers.

 

[mariodk18]

But like, I don’t even understand the point you’re trying to make. They don’t even get most of the same third party games currently and Sony makes the bulk of its revenue from in-game purchases.

I feel like you’re fighting a war that doesn’t exist. Just sounds like some of you would prefer playstation not exist

Are you trying to say that competitors have no effect on one another in a market? I'm not saying in any way that Nintendo is the only one to blame for Sony's demise in Japan, but they have played a part in it.

 

[RDragon]

I'm pretty sure this is not exactly supported by market facts and numbers.

Except it is since Sony all but stopped making games that the Japanese market wants. The closest Nintendo came to giving a death blow to Sony was taking Monster Hunter, although given how the Vita turned out, I doubt even Monster Hunter would have saved it.

 

[Terrell]

This sounds like nonsense, no offense. Like it’s pure conjecture, based on very little evidence or data of any kind. It sounds like wishful thinking more then anything actually going on in gaming right now.

Like, suddenly Nintendo is going to release hardware and every third party developer is going to jump ship or Sony will bully them into timed exclusive deals?

I'll agree that the post you replied to may be over-stating things, but that's no excuse to punch up the argument being made well beyond what was stated.

No, not "every" 3rd-party developer is going to just release every game in their pipeline on Nintendo hardware, but it will happen enough to be noticeable. We can expect it to happen similarly to how it did for the smaller/mid-tier publishers and developers, where some where there day one to reap benefits (NIS and pretty well every indie dev), some that got there in the middle (the bulk of them), and some waited until it was undeniably the right business decision (Vanillaware, Falcom).

Honestly, I just don’t get the constant Sony vs Nintendo sentiment thats persuasive in this thread. It feels like two companies that couldn’t be any more distinct from each other.

Nintendo has been self sustaining for generations now, wheres the crossover?

There's no getting around the fact that the PlayStation brand maintained its position in Japan in large part by being rather dependent on certain de facto exclusives over the years and the consumer expectation that their platform is the only place to find them. That point is made all the clearer by SIE paying to lock some key games down to PS hardware in general and (recently) PS5 specifically. So when something is striking at the heart of a key part of what keeps the brand going in Japan, it merits attention, that's all there is to it. But one should consider that they are market competitors, regardless of their distinctions, especially when, from the perspective of 3rd-party software offerings, they become less and less distinct over time.

 

[Uniomni]

Not really since Sony's decline in Japan has nothing to do with Nintendo. It's all self-inflicted, while Sony actively destroyed the monopoly Nintendo had not only in Japan, but also in the US.

Funnily enough, the exact same could be said about Nintendo's decline in the 90s.
If they weren't insistent on expensive cartridges and draconian in 3P dealings, who can say if the market would've been so receptive to a newcomer like Sony?

Funny how cylical things tend to be.

 

[Old sorta fan]

Not really since Sony's decline in Japan has nothing to do with Nintendo. It's all self-inflicted, while Sony actively destroyed the monopoly Nintendo had not only in Japan, but also in the US.

No company exists in a vacuum. They compete with each other, especially SIE and Nintendo. They still regard each other as arch rivals. Nintendo still sees SIE as the company that once took their market from them and nearly put them out of business. Remember that the DS and Wii were bold business decisions to do something different because if they didn’t, it was game over for Nintendo. SIE still sees Nintendo as a dinky toy company for children that doesn’t get how to do business in the world of big-boy electronics and computers. (I exaggerated on purpose to make a point. Please don’t accuse me of inflaming because we all know the reality is more complicated.)

For another example of the rivalry, look at how the presenter in the Nintendo Direct was sentimental and emotional on camera about finally getting Final Fantasy VII on a Nintendo system. That is even as a digital only decades late straight port from obsolete hardware.

Next, this thread is about the implications of Playstation’s decline in Japan. That certainly affects other market players. If Coke went into decline, don’t you think that would affect Pepsi?

Towards the beginning of this thread, we talked about how the AAA third party Japanese developers are having trouble recruiting young programmers to work on their AAA IP’s for Playstation. One roadblock is that they have never heard of the IP’s that us old farts grew up on because it now takes so long between iterations of the IP. The other part is that the young programmers either haven‘t heard of or never played a PlayStation. It’s something their dad or uncle might have. They feel no affinity to the AAA JP IP’s and no affinity to PlayStation. They‘d rather work on Monster Hunter as they regard it the way us oldsters regard Castlevania and Final Fantasy.

Playstation now gets more revenue from PSN subscriptions and MTX than software sales. They still need compelling software to get customers to buy the hardware so they can buy PSN and MTX. They still compete for key software titles as well as customers’ time and money. PlayStation still moneyhats Final Fantasy and moneyhatted years times exclusivity with Persona 5. During the PS4’s peak, they didn’t have to do much else as the WiiU was a bomb and the third parties still had hope that it would be 2004 all over again if they just supplied the software.

The AAA JP third parties have been looking at the software sales on the Switch since it was clear it was going to be a hit in 2018. Square ported Nier Automata because they saw that Astral Chain sold well. The third parties noticed that Octopath Traveler sold well. They have noticed that a years’ late port of Persona 5 has sold well, The Witcher 3 sold well, Skyrim sold well, and on and on.

They didn’t even bother to look hard at what sold on Wii, DS, 3DS, or WiiU because Sony’s decline in Japan was not yet so terminal that they had no choice but to look at alternatives. They are looking at the Switch and Switch 2 because they no longer have any alternative.

Aren‘t those consequences of PlayStation’s decline in Japan?

 

[meatbag]

I think talking about Playstation's decline in Japan goes hand in hand with assessing how the current dominant market force is affecting it. Like there's no way PS is unaffected if the third party games that used to only come out for it get released for the Switch. It lessens the incentive of a consumer to purchase a Playstation.

They don’t even get most of the same third party games currently and Sony makes the bulk of its revenue from in-game purchases.

That's not really true about the third party games, Switch and PS have 90+% in overlap in 3P library. And regardless, they are still competitors, even if they generate their revenue through different methods.

We're not suggesting Nintendo is actively sabotaging SIE here, we're just contemplating the very real possibilities of devs and consumers skewing to Switch, which would put PS in further decline.

 

[Aostia82]

Except it is since Sony all but stopped making games that the Japanese market wants. The closest Nintendo came to giving a death blow to Sony was taking Monster Hunter, although given how the Vita turned out, I doubt even Monster Hunter would have saved it.

Sony stopped making those games because weren't succesfull enough, also due to tough competition in their primary target market
that competion has a name: Nintendo handheld (that with the 3DS cut the "monstrous" legs out from Sony portable hardware in the most important market for that kind of brand) and Nintendo hybrid consoles

 

[fiendcode]

This sounds like nonsense, no offense. Like it’s pure conjecture, based on very little evidence or data of any kind. It sounds like wishful thinking more then anything actually going on in gaming right now.

Like, suddenly Nintendo is going to release hardware and every third party developer is going to jump ship or Sony will bully them into timed exclusive deals?

An earlier post nailed my thoughts on this matter. I’ll wait until PS5 is more readily available in Japan and the new Nintendo hardware is even officially revealed before trying to paint a picture of this upcoming console generation because none of what you are saying sounds realistic at all. There are other factors at play other than hardware specs.

The more logical prediction are more games going multiplatform like they’ve been doing

It's not going to be an all-in everyone sort of thing but Drake will most likely be making notable gains in 3rd party support, much as Switch did. One key advantage for Drake though is it'll have the benefit of the doubt from day one going in, while Switch really had to "earn" and "prove" it's market worthiness at every step. It's like comparing Famicom to SuFami or PSX to PS2 in that regard, the 3rd parties will more line up day one rather than trickle in over the first couple years.

The biggest area for gains with Drake though is AAA 3rd party. That's pretty much the lone area Switch doesn't already have parity with PS/Xbox and from the Nvidia leaks (and with Series S, Steam Deck, etc, potentially lowering the baselines comparably) it seems like Drake will be able to manage most games. Leaks imply Drake ending up most comparable in general spec to last gen's midcycle refreshes but with hardware acceleration for reconstruction and raytracing to bridge the gap bolted on top than even outdoes the current top of line console (Series X). I expect not only a lot more current gen multiplatform support than Switch saw, but major publishers like Square Enix and Capcom will almost certainly go back and port a bunch of PS4/One-era stuff that was too difficult or costly to natively bring to Switch.

 

[Agent42]

Sony stopped making those games because weren't succesfull enough, also due to tough competition in their primary target market
that competion has a name: Nintendo handheld (that with the 3DS cut the "monstrous" legs out from Sony portable hardware in the most important market for that kind of brand) and Nintendo hybrid consoles

This is another point: software ecosystem. The third-party model is good for the third party, the Sony output, initially, is more fills the gap of the big cinematograph games ( majority thirds) and slowly Sony´s pipeline transforms into big AAA cinematograph games too. Because targets the void of AAA production the software doesn´t have the same performance, and Sony stopped making these games, pivoting Japanese studios to California, etc. The Sony course correction to AAA west games production was a double effect: Solidify position in AAA cinematic games ( dude-bro market) and lost more touch with japanese consumers market and some indie consumers too.

 

[wolftendo]

Yeah this sounds far-fetched. I think it’s premature to try and predict how devs will react to a system we know nothing about.


We definitely need to see PS5 supply stabilize in Japan, but current software sales don’t seem to indicate high engagement with PS. And if more games become multiplatform it will just further entrench Japanese consumers in Nintendo’s ecosystem.


I think we already know that that line of thinking has been flawed from the start. Again, another thing that makes it hard to predict devs, because some of them don’t really follow conventional market logic.

Even western developers follow the market logic better, considering that games of the caliber of SH or Tales of Arise wouldn't skip switch if made by a western developer. We would also be seeing tons of late downgraded ports from flagship titles from Bamco, SQEX and the like.

Like the "hardware limitations" is the only genuine reason why 3rd party western devs are not pouring literally everything on the switch rn

 

[TonyBaduy]

This sounds like nonsense, no offense. Like it’s pure conjecture, based on very little evidence or data of any kind. It sounds like wishful thinking more then anything actually going on in gaming right now.

Like, suddenly Nintendo is going to release hardware and every third party developer is going to jump ship or Sony will bully them into timed exclusive deals?

An earlier post nailed my thoughts on this matter. I’ll wait until PS5 is more readily available in Japan and the new Nintendo hardware is even officially revealed before trying to paint a picture of this upcoming console generation because none of what you are saying sounds realistic at all. There are other factors at play other than hardware specs.

The more logical prediction are more games going multiplatform like they’ve been doing

AAA games that couldn't run on the Switch coming to the Switch 2 or whatever is called would threaten Sony's position in Japan even more, that's the point. Also, Sony buying timed exclusives is the opposite of bullying publishers, they are usually pretty happy if Sony reaches the price they want.

Nothing changes because publishers aren’t going to drop another platform that sells incredibly well internationally just because of domestic sales, especially when those publishers are experiencing record sales across seas this past generation. It will be a Dragon Quest XI scenario, or what we’re seeing happening with Monster Hunter.

Nothing to me has said that Sony is looking for market dominance in Japan over Nintendo. I see them trying to make up for console sales with mobile and F2P if anything, not premium game titles.

Everything Sony moneyhats from japan are games that perform well in the west.

I think you are a bit confused, I never said publishers would drop PS just because the next Switch will be able to run their games too. What I meant was that Sony would lose exclusivity of some, or many, AAA games (even if they come to Xbox that doesn't matter in Japan), which are a competitive advantage for Sony over Nintendo. That alone will further erode their position in Japan.

I am going to add one more thing, Nintendo's next hardware being able to run those AAA games is not purely because Nintendo wants to crush Sony or something, it's because technology allowed for it and Nvidia is probably pushing for them to get the best performance they can get. My hypothesis is that, since it'll have DLSS and RT, they want to use it to show possibly over 100 million users how powerful their current tech is. So even if Nintendo does nothing to court publishers to put their AAA games (which they will obviously), some, or many would come, making them not exclusive to Sony in Japan, meaning the market would have even less reasons to care for PS in Japan. What I am saying is that, instead of Nintendo actively trying to give a blow to Sony, they'll passively deliver it, at least unless they make a more aggressive move in the future.

 

[RDragon]

Sony stopped making those games because weren't succesfull enough, also due to tough competition in their primary target market
that competion has a name: Nintendo handheld (that with the 3DS cut the "monstrous" legs out from Sony portable hardware in the most important market for that kind of brand) and Nintendo hybrid consoles

Sony stopped making those types of game because their western games were selling more and they all but stop investing in their Japanese branch. Instead of evolving the IPs that had more Japanese appeal, they killed them off and did nothing to replaced them.

Sony basically gave Nintendo Japan since they had a prime chance to win back some marketshare when Nintendo stumble in the Wii U/3DS era and they blew it by cutting off the Vita's legs and double down in big AAA games likes Last of US, Uncharted, Days Gone, and Horizon. Nintendo taking Monster Hunter was really just the tombstone for the grave Sony already dug for it.

 

[Aostia82]

Sony stopped making those types of game because their western games were selling more and they all but stop investing in their Japanese branch. Instead of evolving the IPs that had more Japanese appeal, they killed them off and did nothing to replaced them.

Sony basically gave Nintendo Japan since they had a prime chance to win back some marketshare when Nintendo stumble in the Wii U/3DS era and they blew it by cutting off the Vita's legs and double down in big AAA games likes Last of US, Uncharted, Days Gone, and Horizon. Nintendo taking Monster Hunter was really just the tombstone for the grave Sony already dug for it.

yes

because Japanese competition was too harsh on them

 

[TonyBaduy]

I made this post in the Microsoft and SQEX thread on Era and I think it's relevant here too, as it shows the current priorities of SQEX:

"SQEX usually chooses the Switch for their budget titles. Nintendo may or may not make deals to delay their release on PC, this is because they are budget titles, so the porting process may be outside their initial budget, so they end up coming later to PC. As for other consoles, Asano games are usually Switch exclusive, unless someone, like Sony, pays for a port. Since Octopath 1 was such a hit I guess they wanted a part of that too. Live A Live is such a niche title of a previously Japan exclusive Sony may not have thought it was worth to port it. Triangle Strategy may have also been a game Sony saw little value in, and so did MS, and thus it only released on Switch (and PC), that probably also applies to Front Mission and DQ Treasures too. Most SQEX stuff goes Switch first and everything else later unless a deal is in place, and they LOVE to put things on Switch. As I said before, just check how many SQEX announcements are in literally any Nintendo Direct lately, they flood the system with games. This year they released:

18 games on all platforms including mobile
17 games on consoles
13 games on Switch
12 games on PS4
8 games on PS5
5 games on XBO
4 games on XBS S/X

You can easily see there where their priorities lie with that.

List of Square Enix video games - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"

Just with this we can see how the success of the Switch has impacted even the PS4 and how the lack of success of the PS5 in Japan has impacted their transition to the next gen. If there are no deals in place, you can all be sure those AAA games that aren't releasing on Switch will release on the Switch 2. I only expect Sony to secure deals for Final Fantasy and maybe 1 or 2 other SQEX AAA games, but the rest will release on the Switch 2 and, as I said, SQEX LOVES to put games on the Switch and will also love to do so on the Switch 2. That in itself will mean that there'll be even less reasons to own a PS5 for the Japanese market and will be a net loss for Sony.

 

[Astrogamer]

FYI, Front Mission remakes does not really count as SE games. They are just the license holder like Sega with the Wonder Boy games, Streets of Rage 4 and the House of the Dead Remake. They entered an agreement with Forever Entertainment for those games and those games are Switch exclusive due to Forever Entertainment signing an agreement with Nintendo. Like the previous Forever Entertainment remakes, we'll probably see ports in 6 months to other platforms.
Also mobile had 3 games this year. FMA Mobile, Echoes of Mana and Bravely Default Brilliant Lights.

 

[RDragon]

yes

because Japanese competition was too harsh on them

Japanese competition is no more harsh than the US and I would argue that the US's market is more harsh since Nintendo competes here, MS competes here, and PC competes here, while Japan only has Nintendo. The only different is that they chose to give-up on Japan since the US is a way bigger market and the US's taste in games are similar to the UK, another huge market.

 

[Aostia82]

Japanese competition is no more harsh than the US and I would argue that the US's market is more harsh since Nintendo competes here, MS competes here, and PC competes here, while Japan only has Nintendo. The only different is that they chose to give-up on Japan since the US is a way bigger market and the US's taste in games are similar to the UK, another huge market.

Japanese market totally is more harsh

Nintendo is the only relevant player nowadays exaclty because of this

It's like saying that Japanese market is easier for MS than US because Sony is not focused (anymore) on that market

It's not the number of players that determines how harsh a competition is, instead the barrier to entry/monopolistic role of a strong player

Actual situation, with "only nintendo" is born from competitor (nintendo) strenghts (and sony weakness) toward the key drivers of that market

 

[RDragon]

Japanese market totally is more harsh

Nintendo is the only relevant player nowadays exaclty because of this

It's like saying that Japanese market is easier for MS than US because Sony is not focused (anymore) on that market

It's not the number of players that determines how harsh a competition is, instead the barrier to entry/monopolistic role of a strong player

Actual situation, with "only nintendo" is born from competitor (nintendo) strenghts (and sony weakness) toward the key drivers of that market

It's really not. It's just different because the tastes of Japan is more unique compared to us within the US and parts of Europe. That along with Japan leaning more into mobile while us in the west still have a mobile bias in terms of gaming. Which is why none of the big game developers outside of Nintendo have a way to play portable. Sony half-ass it before they gave up altogether and MS never even tried. The closest any has come in this generation is Valve with the Steam Deck.

"It's like saying that Japanese market is easier for MS than US because Sony is not focused (anymore) on that market"

That comparison doesn't work for several reasons. The two biggest are that a) MS outside of Minecraft makes no games that the Japanese market wants and haven't gain the trust of Japanese third-parties to get day-to-day releases outside of outliers like MHW and Street Fighter 6 if they get any at all like them not getting Pixel Collection or Octopath 2 and b) they have no presence in the handheld space outside of games they port on the Switch (point Minecraft) and Japan is a big mobile market. So MS is competing by trying to force the standards of the US into the Japanese market while trying to get third-parties to make appealing games for that market and that simply isn't working. For the most part, anyone in Japan buying Xbox is for GamePass since PC is even more niche.

"Actual situation, with "only nintendo" is born from competitor (nintendo) strenghts (and sony weakness) toward the key drivers of that market"

It's born because Nintendo at this moment is the only console developer even making things that the market wants. You can't say Sony and MS competes when they don't bother to make software nor hardware Japan wants. Sony gave-up and MS wants third-parties to pick up the slack.

 

[Aostia82]

It really is too easy to say that MS and Sony arent bothering
They gave up because they werent able to find success
They werent able to find success for many reasons
Among these, there is the harsh competition represented by Nintendo

Surely it's not that they werent able to find success because they werent interested/they gave up

But the other way around

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Jim Ryan era Playstation is where they waived the white flag. House and Layden built a great platform that had pretty much every relevant japanese franchise not owned by Nintendo. (many of these were either exclusive or at least not available on Nintendo platforms).

 

[RDragon]

It really is too easy to say that MS and Sony arent bothering
They gave up because they werent able to find success
They werent able to find success for many reasons
Among these, there is the harsh competition represented by Nintendo

Surely it's not that they werent able to find success because they werent interested/they gave up

But the other way around

It's easy because they're simply not. Sony killed off their Japanese studios and replaced it with nothing, killed off their portable consoles and showed no signs of going back to it, double down on their big western games that have limited appeal in Japan, and made a console that is too big for the market since Japan have limited home space. There is nothing in Sony's recent history that they're trying in Japan outside of locking up FF and FF is bigger overseas than in Japan.

MS is trying, but it's half-ass because while they made more appealing hardware in the Series S they still haven't made any software for the Japanese's taste (although, they're barely putting out any first-party software), they never tried to make their own portable hardware and instead port their stuff onto the Switch, and their marketing in Japan is meh. And so far the only solution MS has come up with is 'buy a Japanese studio'. Although outside of a startup or a studio that is going to die, why would any Japanese developer want to be bought out by a console maker that never sold half-million consoles in three generations. And as badly as Sony is doing in Japan, it's still better than MS.

Nintendo competes everywhere, so why are you acting like Japan is special in that regard. Nintendo rules Japan because they made hardware that the Japanese love, they made software the Japanese love, and their competitors don't. It's just that simple. If Nintendo dies tomorrow, it isn't like Sony or MS will take their place. So Sony and MS fails regardless of Nintendo's success or failure.

 

[Vena]

But like, I don’t even understand the point you’re trying to make. They don’t even get most of the same third party games currently and Sony makes the bulk of its revenue from in-game purchases.

I feel like you’re fighting a war that doesn’t exist. Just sounds like some of you would prefer playstation not exist

Try to pull back on the Superman gymnastics, arguing at the absurd doesn't make for much of a discussion.

No one is saying Playstation shouldn't exist.

Despite rather distinct products, Sony and Nintendo continue to compete. People have finite time and there are a finite number of people who are interested in gaming. It doesn't matter if one console is a traditional brick with controller and the other is the shape of an apple. So long as the proposition is roughly equal or both platforms provide desirable products, there will be competition over those who have to choose and the brands will present what they think is best for enticing said consumers.

This also results in moneyhats, you don't need companies to admit to them. It's the nature of business.

 

[MysticGon]

I am wondering why PlayStation Japan never made a commercial about the price hike.

I was looking forward to a sequel to this.

 

[Clay_ghost]

I am wondering why PlayStation Japan never made a commercial about the price hike.

I was looking forward to a sequel to this.

LOL. Sony will be crazy to rub it in consumer face that its the only place to play FF16 and consumers have to pay for the benifits.

 

[MysticGon]

LOL. Sony will be crazy to rub it in consumer face that its the only place to play FF16 and consumers have to pay for the benifits.

They would rather show Japanese fans how excited they should be about God of War.

 

[Adventureracing]

My opinion on this is that so far this has had little impact on Sony and it’s hard to argue with them with how successful they shave been and continues to be.

For me the risk is what happens if competition picks up elsewhere or they have another misstep like the PS3. It’s never a good thing losing ground significantly in an important market.

Right now Sony has made up for it elsewhere and then some. The question is can they always rely on that? What if MS buys ABK and they go on to become the dominant platform in the US?
It really is too easy to say that MS and Sony arent bothering

They gave up because they werent able to find success
They werent able to find success for many reasons
Among these, there is the harsh competition represented by Nintendo

Surely it's not that they werent able to find success because they werent interested/they gave up

But the other way around

Isn’t this ignoring history a bit? Sony was absolutely able to find success in Japan. Their priorities just changed as they saw more growth potential outside of Japan. They moved their focus to the west and what is required to be successful in Japan is totally different.

It wasn’t because they couldn’t find success in Japan.

 

[Aostia82]

Isn’t this ignoring history a bit? Sony was absolutely able to find success in Japan. Their priorities just changed as they saw more growth potential outside of Japan. They moved their focus to the west and what is required to be successful in Japan is totally different.

It wasn’t because they couldn’t find success in Japan.

Of course they have been able, in the past
Until competition (from mobile and Nintendo) ate their cake

They developed and produced and distributed PS Vita, but it flopped, also due to tough competition (from those factors) and after that they decided to abandon the portable market and weren't able to find a proper way to sustain the home console segment in a meaningful way to be successfull also in Japan
As Nintendo flopped hard with the Wii U, that forced them to abandon the traditional home market, also due to tough competition, but finding a way to actually present a product that, for its own nature, can be of interested for both Japan and outside markets (the hybrid concept)

but let's be chronological in analyzing facts: the DID try and invest - they failed - they focused on other markets only (entirely in terms of portable devices, partially with their home console policies)

 

[Agent42]

My opinion on this is that so far this has had little impact on Sony and it’s hard to argue with them with how successful they shave been and continues to be.

For me the risk is what happens if competition picks up elsewhere or they have another misstep like the PS3. It’s never a good thing losing ground significantly in an important market.

Right now Sony has made up for it elsewhere and then some. The question is can they always rely on that? What if MS buys ABK and they go on to become the dominant platform in the US?
It really is too easy to say that MS and Sony arent bothering

Isn’t this ignoring history a bit? Sony was absolutely able to find success in Japan. Their priorities just changed as they saw more growth potential outside of Japan. They moved their focus to the west and what is required to be successful in Japan is totally different.

It wasn’t because they couldn’t find success in Japan.

Asia was the most potential growth, not the west. China may be a good move for Sony and Ps5.

But Sony is a genius playing 5D chess making less profit than Nintendo and losing ground in Japan and some minor Asia countries?

The good thing is Sony not losing money on the consoles' side anymore, the bleeding in ps1, ps2, and ps3 days is not a good move because when you don´t have exceptional performance ( ps3) you may lose money.

 

[Joseki]

.

 

[Terrell]

Jim Ryan era Playstation is where they waived the white flag. House and Layden built a great platform that had pretty much every relevant japanese franchise not owned by Nintendo. (many of these were either exclusive or at least not available on Nintendo platforms).

Andrew House helped to create the confluence of circumstance that led to their current situation, though. House was the one that convinced Japanese publishers to ignore or look away from their domestic market to chase sales outside of Japan. The SIE HQ move to California happened a year before he stepped down. People give way too much credit to Jim Ryan for the current situation, Andrew House deserves his fair share of the "credit".

 

[Chaosseed]

I am wondering why PlayStation Japan never made a commercial about the price hike.

I was looking forward to a sequel to this.

 

[MysticGon]

It was inevitable. The comments are brutal.

 

[mariodk18]

They would rather show Japanese fans how excited they should be about God of War.

"Please be excited as Western fans"

 

[Old sorta fan]

Deleted post

 

[Vena]

Let's get back on topic.

 

[Fukuzatsu]

They would rather show Japanese fans how excited they should be about God of War.

I've seen a few of these types of videos from SIE and they never cease to perplex me. I understand they want to sell as many copies of GOW as possible, even acknowledging that it is much less successful in Japan than in the US, but this just comes across as anti-marketing. Would a Japanese fan of God of War (let alone an uninitiated PlayStation consumer) see this video and go "wow, that's for me"? I can't envision it, if only because it's a 10-minute video entirely (?) in English that translates the expression "It would renew my energies in ways I never thought possible" as 「すっごく元気が出るからね」.

Exact same product team that decided to release a baseball game in Japan with Shohei Ohtani on the cover without actually translating any of the game content into Japanese. Just zero ambition.

 

[MysticGon]

One could argue the low effort from Sony are the reason they are seeing low sales and negative fan reactions as a consequence.