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"Tears of the Kingdom" was illegally downloaded 1 million times before launch. [UP: TH settles. Ceases all emulator dev and pays Nintendo $2.4M]

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The main thing here is don't Advertise,don't publicize, deny any question to piracy with not my goal or reason for making this at every step and have someone else tell you the steps and finally dont flaunt in front of the Giant company with a lot of money to waste on finding anything to make you sink.
 


yuzu, in its current form, will cease to exist.Their settlement with Nintendo prohibits any distribution of yuzu in built and source code form. Development must also stop.The yuzu website and related services will also be shut down.
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Will other emulators like Ryujinx be targeted by Nintendo in the future?
 
Yuzu being open source makes the "destruction of the program" a bit redundant. Its more about ensuring these guys dont work on a Switch 2 emulator probably.
 
That was really quick, wow. I must say I didn't know these Yuzu-guys were making so much money with their emulator, so this feels like a just result, especially when it apparently was so damning that their lawyer adviced them to fold immediately.

I still hope emulation for non-current gen systems stays alive, though. It would be a good rule: No emulation for systems that are still being officially sold and produced. Also curious how the Ryujinx-guys will react.
 
There should definitely be a thread mark and update in the title, this is pretty big news.

I… can’t help but laugh at how quickly this wrapped itself up. Absolutely no fight. Just a settlement and shutdown. It’s so hilariously anticlimactic.

It’s not like it’ll stop emulation entirely but wow, Tropic Haze must’ve screwed themselves seriously bad, as some people alluded to.
 
Just found out that Tropic Haze, the company behind Yuzu, is also the company behind Citra, the 3ds emulator
 
StardustTraveler said:
Will other emulators like Ryujinx be targeted by Nintendo in the future?
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Nintendo will have to build up a case for Ryujinx just like they did for Yuzu, and generally the public details of this case was predicated on specific circumstantial behaviors that shouldn't be assumed to be universal to all emulation projects.
 
InsaneZero said:
details of this case was predicated on specific circumstantial behaviors that shouldn't be assumed to be universal to all emulation projects.
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Portions of the case were Yuzu specific sure but Nintendo argued that the real time decryption needed to run any games breaks the DMCA. That would be applicable to most modern consoles.

Older emulators would likely be safe but any switch emulator would break this to my knowledge.
 
BoktaiFan said:
Portions of the case were Yuzu specific sure but Nintendo argued that the real time decryption needed to run any games breaks the DMCA. That would be applicable to most modern consoles.

Older emulators would likely be safe but any switch emulator would break this to my knowledge.
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Those arguments have not been tested in court and this settlement does not change that. My personal opinion is that if the case's only merits were on these technical details rather than anything that Tropic Haze was specifically doing, then we would not be seeing a settlement this quickly and unequivocally on Nintendo's terms.
 
InsaneZero said:
Those arguments have not been tested in court and this settlement does not change that
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The Yuzu team admit to nintendos arguments as part of the settlement. Now that doesn't set any precedent but still notable.

I'm just pointing out that Njntendo could use the very sake arguments in a case against other emulators. Only time will tell if they do.
 
BoktaiFan said:
The Yuzu team admit to nintendos arguments as part of the settlement. Now that doesn't set any precedent but still notable.

I'm just pointing out that Njntendo could use the very sake arguments in a Cass against other emulators. Only time will tell if they do.
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A settlement only affects the parties that are explicitly stated as such, and renders no judgments that can be referenced as legal precedent.
 
BoktaiFan said:
I know. I said that in my post that it doesn't set precedent
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This also means that this lawsuit doesn't produce a generic template that Nintendo can copy+paste for every Switch emulator. They still need to produce a compelling argument that is more than just "Yuzu was an emulator and they were wrong, so clearly Ryujinx is also wrong since they're also a Switch emulator".

A settlement is not a cheat code to make future lawsuits entirely free.
 
InsaneZero said:
This also means that this lawsuit doesn't produce a generic template that Nintendo can copy+paste for every Switch emulator. They still need to produce a compelling argument that is more than just "Yuzu was an emulator and they were wrong, so clearly Ryujinx is also wrong since they're also a Switch emulator".

A settlement is not a cheat code to make future lawsuits entirely free.
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I see no reason as to why "Yuzu broke the DMCA doing this and Ryujinx breaks it in the exact same way" wouldn't be a copy paste.
 
In "was about to get absolutely destroyed in court" news.

InsaneZero said:
A settlement only affects the parties that are explicitly stated as such, and renders no judgments that can be referenced as legal precedent.
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This sets legal starting point for Nintendo should they want to make more/further cases. It's not precedent but it's sort-of-like precedent in that they can point to the settlement and all terms being in Nintendo's favor (plaintiff and defendant agree on the argument of the plaintiff in settlement) as a point of admission of guilt, and then go from there. Gives Nintendo a very strong starting foot in any future case within these narrowly defined lines.

Any future party will be starting at a disadvantage because of this case within the scope of this case, should Nintendo pursue further action. Do note, though, that this would not apply to any old emulator (PS1 or older) because there was no copy-protection back then. It's a very narrowly defined situation that is really around protecting current market offerings.

Pancracio17 said:
Yuzu being open source makes the "destruction of the program" a bit redundant. Its more about ensuring these guys dont work on a Switch 2 emulator probably.
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Again, this likely has nothing to do with a Switch 2, 3, 4 or 10.

Legal cases take a LONG time to be made and put into action, this is just a normal timeline for something that started probably a couple of years ago and hit a major push with TotK.
 
its not a copy and paste thing, but it is a template against emulators that function similarily.

In the document, they list it as a statement of fact that the use of keys obtained from switches to decrypt games as they run on the emulator is circumventing technical measures to protect IP.

I am not sure how much of that can be used since irc settlement documents generally have some protections of being used in other trials.

But considerng ryujinx uses the same mechanism of getting prod.key from switches, nintendo could imo reuse the same line of reasoning on them to get a similar settlement, or force an actual court decision, which would have much wider implication for emulation overall.
 
Andri said:
But considerng ryujinx uses the same mechanism of getting prod.key from switches, nintendo could imo reuse the same line of reasoning on them to get a similar settlement, or force an actual court decision, which would have much wider implication for emulation overall.
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If other devs are smart, they will transition to decrypted-only support with no information or direction on how to do it but, as it is, Yuzu has poisoned the well for all Switch emulation for the next few years at least until interest on the console dies off post-end of life.
 
All of the arguments against Yuzu in the technical details about how the emulator works arent tested, and imo still weak. Instructing people on how to break DRM has been tested before in eBook DRM and it was fine there for example.

Yuzu team as whole had a bunch of receipts that they themselves were developing the emulator in a shady way and getting money for piracy. That could change the tides a bit. Ryujinx doesnt have nearly as much paetron supporters so that line of argument is weaker too.
 
Vena said:
In "was about to get absolutely destroyed in court" news.



This sets legal starting point for Nintendo should they want to make more/further cases. It's not precedent but it's sort-of-like precedent in that they can point to the settlement and all terms being in Nintendo's favor as a point of admission of guilt, and then go from there. Gives Nintendo a very strong starting foot in any future case within these narrowly defined lines.

Any future party will be starting at a disadvantage because of this case within the scope of this case, should Nintendo pursue further action.
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I don't doubt that Nintendo will use this to their advantage in regards on setting informal chilling effects, and I also think that Nintendo is going to fully leverage the cryptographic bypass angle (whose design absolutely had these legalities in mind) if they want to. However, I don't think that would immediately translate into Nintendo putting their foot down on every Switch emulator out there with impunity, as they still need to take the time and resources to make a compelling case that can stand on its own merits and actually connect the dots.
 
InsaneZero said:
I don't doubt that Nintendo will use this to their advantage in regards on setting informal chilling effects, and I also think that Nintendo is going to fully leverage the cryptographic bypass angle (whose design absolutely had these legalities in mind) if they want to. However, I don't think that would immediately translate into Nintendo putting their foot down on every Switch emulator out there with impunity, as they still need to take the time and resources to make a compelling case that can stand on its own merits and actually connect the dots.
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I don't think they will either, but it also depends on how much rope these devs gave Nintendo from which to make more nooses.
 
I think the existente of various emulators for decades at this point where nintendo didnt sue, implies that the reason they went after this one specifically is in large part due to how the emulator devs profitied from it.

They could go after all emulators, and either win on the basis of arguments, or failing that just by overwhelming small dev teams with endless lawsuits till they quit on their own, but they pretty clearly dont do that at this time.

Or maybe im wrong, and nintendo will now sue every other emulator that exists now tho.

Vena said:
If other devs are smart, they will transition to decrypted-only support with no information or direction on how to do it but, as it is, Yuzu has poisoned the well for all Switch emulation for the next few years at least until interest on the console dies off post-end of life.
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Pretty much.
Its the nature of open source dev that if there is a known and aviable way to solve something, most developers will use it rather than take time to develop their own solution to the same problem.

Switch emulation now has to find a way to switch(heh) over to not using prod.key ripped from switches, or accept the risk of the same thing happening as here.
 
That was quick. Unpopular opinion, but I think Nintendo is pretty clear and lenient with their guidelines. They will overlook most of the stuff, but this is a precedent of what line not to cross or you will get the bonk. Yuzu deserved it.
 
Yuzu Response
  • Index

    • GH2X4xuWAAEe7BO

    Confirmation that both Yuzu and Citra are gone.
     
  • Index
    • Well...
    I think we can assume that IF/when Nintendo steps in...they are pretty sure about their foundings and stances on the matter
     
    Aostia82 said:
    Well...
    I think we can assume that IF/when Nintendo steps in...they are pretty sure about their foundings and stances on the matter
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    Yep. Pretty much shows the difference to the whole Palworld debate (which probably would be handled by TPC, yeah, but still.).
     
    i don't think other emulators get hit.

    the intent seems to mostly be, dont charge people and announce the ability to play a game before its release date.

    as thats is illegal and also just admitting to piracy.
    Post automatically merged:

    Tokuiten said:
    Yep. Pretty much shows the difference to the whole Palworld debate (which probably would be handled by TPC, yeah, but still.).
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    totk launch was like 7 -8 months ago.

    if theres anything about palworld (which would be a much bigger case) we would probably be seeing it next year.
     
    Citra will be fine. It was not part of the settlement, and it is only dead because the LLC is dissolved. Someone will fork it and no one will care.

    For future "no shit sherlock" development tips, do not make an LLC around this shit!
     
    BoktaiFan said:
    The ninjas are everywhere!
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    It's safe to assume that a multi-billion corporation will be keeping tabs on parties that they believe can potentially undermine their core interests. Being on Discord actually makes this stuff easier, since you can just have a relatively simple script to log everything to a database instead of needing an actual person to do it.
     
    InsaneZero said:
    It's safe to assume that a multi-billion corporation will be keeping tabs on parties that they believe can potentially undermine their core interests. Being on Discord actually makes this stuff easier, since you can just have a relatively simple script to log everything to a database instead of needing an actual person to do it.
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    Nintendo has people in every major discord related to the Switch. They browse github and reddit, they know what's going on. Some of Nintendo's own infosec engineers are *from* these circles and know this stuff inside and out. (Hell, they've tried hiring the big 3DS and Switch hacking scene folks!)

    They know where to look and why wouldn't they, you can see people's development and incorporate that into your own work and counter-work, lmao.
     
    Honestly, without the whole TotK thing, I don't think all this would have happened (at least this soon). The amount of Patreon money skyrocketed to almost 100k monthly, the game was released prominently almost 2 weeks early, the many streams on various websites, the Kotaku article debacle, the fact that a version of Yuzu optimized for TotK emulation was behind a Patreon paywall at first etc. was just too big to ignore for Nintendo. I don't buy the Yuzu statement anyway.
     
    Surprising that Nintendo settled on such a low amount and even more surprising that Yuzu was able to afford it. Hopefully development of the code continues by the community.
     
    Nintendo probably wanted to destroy Yuzu as a warning against Switch 2 emulation, i mean how many companies would risk having to pay millions in settlement to Nintendo for emulating their hardware?

    Seems Nintendo will be handed over Yuzu dot org as well.
     
    Danny said:
    Nintendo probably wanted to destroy Yuzu as a warning against Switch 2 emulation, i mean how many companies would risk having to pay millions in settlement to Nintendo for emulating their hardware?

    Seems Nintendo will be handed over Yuzu dot org as well.
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    I would imagine it's that plus they probably want to avoid a BOTW situation as well.

    I can see the youtube videos saying that Pokemon Legends Z-A is better on PC than switch 2 or something like that
     
    Belthazar said:
    Surprising that Nintendo settled on such a low amount and even more surprising that Yuzu was able to afford it. Hopefully development of the code continues by the community.
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    Outside of shutting this down to make an example, I don't see much reason to go full on destroy all these parties involved. They could, but I don't think they should so it being a relatively low amount isn't a bad thing imo.

    Those patreons for these types of projects can really rake in the money if they catch wind.
     
    Jarmusch said:
    a big loss for archivists
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    Nintendo did not go after emulators of discontinued hardware, only active hardware,

    Plus, none of us are naive. Yuzu wasn’t shut down because of archiving activities. It was shut down for making money off pirating a major video game release two weeks early.
     
    As I said at the beginning, can't say I blame Nintendo in this particular case. Emulating the current on the market games/hardware has always been a highly dubious thing. If you wanna emulate some SNES or N64 games I sincerely doubt Nintendo is gonna come beating down your door, but going after the stuff currently on store shelves was always going to eventually draw their ire.
     
    Did these guys make money off Yuzu?

    I assume they shut down because paying these sorts of sums is a big fucking deal and they can't risk anything like this again unless they wanna live in debt for the rest of their lives.
     
    Jarmusch said:
    a big loss for archivists
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    Your post is an insult to the people that genuinely archives and preserves video games. Especially Near, if you even know who they are.

    Edit: seen your follow up post that it’s meant to be ironic. In that case, apologies for my harsh response. But point still stands for other people who do say it unironically.
     
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