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What were the 12 announced, again? Someone give me a rundown. Will be interesting to see how this push plays out.
SIE is laying off 900 people, London Studio closing down entirely
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They never were fully announced but, I think the other known ones were Helldivers II, the Horizon multiplayer game, Concord (Firewalk studios) and Fairgame$ (Haven studios). Unsure where Marathon and the Horizon MMO (Nexon) land in here too since I don't remember how old the quote with that number is.
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At least this puts an end to the arms race between the big video game companies for the time being.
After the December and January sales in which the PS5 was 500 Euros across EU (a 50 euro reduction and you could find also the SM2 game in the bundle) and their recent Financial report about low margins i was thinking we will not see PS5 sales for a while......
Well a couple days after the financial report the PS5 is sold at 470 euros and now i know where they will get the "margins"
Well a couple days after the financial report the PS5 is sold at 470 euros and now i know where they will get the "margins"
That is a HUGE loss.
We watched Sony's clout in Japan crater with the lost of Japan Studio
It's effect on Europe broadly and the UK locally can be directed solely to London Studio. With the Studio gone, Sony's presence in Europe is at a cross-roads.
Damn that must hurt.
For me this was when it was clear their GAAS was a mess. Management clearly dictated down that everyone needed a GAAS idea. How no one calculated the scale and spending in the market is beyond me. It was totally unattainable.
Destiny 2 meanwhile is showing the desperate need to build an off ramp which is just going to cost even more.
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Not all of the 12 were announced.
This is the cancelled list so far:
Insomniac - Spider-Man MP Project - Cancelled(Caveat that it was at the very initial stages when it was axed)
Lucid Games--->Firesprite Studios - Twisted Metal - Cancelled
Deviation Games - Most likely Cancelled(Mass Layoffs at the Studio)
Naughty Dog - The Last of Us Online - Cancelled
London Studios - GaaS game - Cancelled(Studio Closure)
Guerilla Games - Horizon MP - ???(Layoffs at Guerilla)
Edit:
I'm not sure it does tbh, at least with Sony it seems like the GAAS are mostly getting the squeeze and not the AAAA tentpoles.
Over at MS they're slowly diversify and trying to move to services, but I'm not sure AAAA content gets deprioritized (indeed the baby steps to multi imply they're looking to do the opposite and get those AAAA returns finally). Also MS is still on the prowl for acquisitions and that could accelerate as values continue coming back down to Earth. I'd guess Sony is probably out of that game though (at least on the multi-B pub scale) after Bungie proving to be a bit of a lemon.
Yeah, the PC announcement definitely felt like an off-ramp. In retrospect PSVR2 probably shouldn't have made it to release.
I think it was part of their margin strategy. Sony have gone very Apple in upselling hardware to PlayStation customers but unlike Apple it just hasn’t cut into enough of their user base. Portal confuses me - I think they could have got more from its asking price but even that is getting very limited interest.
Their sales strategy is failing which is why they need to cut costs ultimately.
I would like to be in a major publishers room right now - the industry is gathering a lot of risk. One major platform is now moving away from exclusivity, another is focusing on margins rather than unit sales and the third they have not ignored but been happily skipping is delaying the system which could have brought them onboard.
2024 going to be a rough one and we might see some decisions which historically look odd for this part of a generational cycle.
Back in January 2022 Sony announced 12 GAAS to be released by 2026, no names.
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Sad and angry with the news, but when they anounced that Totoki was taking control of the division it seemed a matter of time. Sigh, there is nothing worse than put CFOs in charge of creative divisions. Jim was/is bad, but CFOs are always the worst.
Also i dont get the fires at Imsonmiac and Guerrilla. The first one was carrying the PS5 by themselves and being very succesfull. I guess actual AAA budgets+IP fees is too much of a risk, but still the one paying for this is gonna be Ratchet and Clank IP. Its a no sense.
And what exactly are they cutting in Guerrilla? If the Horizon MP is going on and the SP is definitely going on too, where is the cut coming from? The Decima engine team? Because that would be incredibly stupid.
Also i dont get the fires at Imsonmiac and Guerrilla. The first one was carrying the PS5 by themselves and being very succesfull. I guess actual AAA budgets+IP fees is too much of a risk, but still the one paying for this is gonna be Ratchet and Clank IP. Its a no sense.
And what exactly are they cutting in Guerrilla? If the Horizon MP is going on and the SP is definitely going on too, where is the cut coming from? The Decima engine team? Because that would be incredibly stupid.
That has been the forcast for a bit and it doesn't seem to be a digit wrong.
So would I. That would be quite the meeting with ALOT of grumbling. They all bought into the idea that growth is infinite, when it clearly isn't and they have been dumping alot of ideas on credit.
That was going to come to a head at some point, and a tightening economy is clearly not helping.
It is? I mean, a lot of folks made quite a bit of hay over four titles going cross-platform. I don't see Microsoft giving away exclusivity as much as they are profit hunting.
Which is still pretty bad, just not what we forum users were expecting.
Which is clearly a structural problem, those margins have been baked in since the launch of the PS5 and the layoffs can't fix that... It only really to get more control of expenses burning at a high rate but as it stands now, SIE losses even as they win. And Sony Group is rather tired of that.
That is on them, looking at the install base of Nintendo's Switch and going "Nah, we don't need that money." Fine, I say, Nintendo has NO obligation to give those companies a life line for their bad decisions. They get to live with the fact that they have locked themselves out of a lucrative platform, and forcing themself to sustain over in PC/Steam land where the competition is cutthroat.
Portal's a weird product in general, it's functionality feels artificially limited in odd ways (no direct cloud streaming, no native PS1/PSP playback, chained to a PS5) and the supply has been minuscule. Part of me thinks Portal could be bigger than it is and I sort of wonder if it might be a test run for a more fully featured "Portal Pro" down the line?
One thing Portal does have over VR2 though is that it's not software dependant. It's basically a like a controller or accessory while VR2 by it's nature necessitates being a distinct subplatform. That's partially why the PC compatibility feels like an off-ramp too, as it's clear Sony themselves aren't going to sink more into game R&D on it.
I don’t think this is that odd when you take the ‘Apple’ perspective into mind. It’s a product to be sold and marketed at PS5 as an up sell on the hardware as well as likely hoping it drivers user engagement and thus sales. Going outside of that market just means greater marketing spending which isn’t what it’s designed for.
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Jason Schrier has confirmed the Guerrilla MP game is still being worked on.
I would expect that in the case of Guerrilla it's probably a mix of talent working on the MP and Horizon 3.
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Okay, so we have:
- Helldivers 2 (massive surprise hit)
- Concord (due 2024)
- Fairgame$ (due by March 31, 2026)
- Marathon (due by March 31, 2026)
- Horizon multiplayer project (still alive despite layoffs, due by March 31, 2026)
- Spider-Verse multiplayer project (cancelled)
- Twisted Metal multiplayer project (cancelled)
- Deviation Games's project (likely cancelled)
- The Last of Us Factions (cancelled)
- London Studios's project (cancelled)
So out of the 12 live-service games initially planned, only 6 will come out. And out of the 10 listed here, 5 are still planned to be coming while the other 5 have been semingly cancelled. So I guess there's one more announcement for them to make.
In any case, this is already proving to be a massive waste of time and resources, nto to mention this seriously upends the livelihoods of hundreds of people. How fare are we to hitting 2023's layoff total? Cause damn...
Ok, in what way does Totoki have control of what is happening right now? A month away from when he takes full control?
I have no opinion over the man, but this sacking is not his to wear.... It's Jim Ryan's. Jim's choices lead to 900+ folks losing their jobs, his direction of SIE as lead to the margins being so thin that the Group has to act.
Totoki will likely have his head deep into SIE's ledgers when he does take control and honestly, someone needs to be.... Playstation can't keep tossing money at a wall. It is painful that an "accountant" has the reigns of Playstation, sure but it's been clear for a while that Playstation can't keep acting like it's 1996 with a Sony Group with money to burn. Those days are long gone.
Please no... the rumor mill is already going strong for a PS5 Pro, adding Portal to that mess is not going to help.
1. helldivers 2
2. Concord
3. Marathon
4. Fairgames
5. Horizon
Thats 10. Other 2 were likely cancelled early on or maybe Sony included MLB the show in GAAS category.
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2024 - Game Industry Layoffs - Obsidian Publish
2024 - Game Industry Layoffs - Powered by Obsidian Publish.
2023 - 10.5k~
2024 - 7.1k~
We're going to breeze past that number in a few months at this rate...
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The NCsoft MMO would not be out by 2026, development schedule of any MMO, especially in the current landscape is probably something like 8+ years. There's a reason nobody is really attempting to make such costly project beside the Korean pubs.
Sony really needs to diversify their output if they're willing to sustain any semblance of a functional pipeline. They'll always need their AAA blockbusters, as their brand was built on that and it would frankly be a loss to the industry if the publishers who can afford those kinds of games stopped making them... But they'll also need to improve heavily on having multiple smaller titles every year, in order to both keep the userbase engaged and also to have a better revenue stream.
At the start of this gen I thought they were improving on that front, with titles like Sackboy (which sold amazing, as per the leak) and Returnal... But then there was very little of that (if any at all). The layoffs don't paint a good picture on that front though, as those positions could've been maintained and put to work on interesting and reasonably budgeted projects...
At this point it would probably make much more sense financially o have 5 games that sold like Sackboy each year instead of a single juggernaut that costs 300 million to make. It would also spread the risk around and afford them more margin to have failures, which also improves on the creativity of projects.
But we'll see what they do after that... But it doesn't look good.
At the start of this gen I thought they were improving on that front, with titles like Sackboy (which sold amazing, as per the leak) and Returnal... But then there was very little of that (if any at all). The layoffs don't paint a good picture on that front though, as those positions could've been maintained and put to work on interesting and reasonably budgeted projects...
At this point it would probably make much more sense financially o have 5 games that sold like Sackboy each year instead of a single juggernaut that costs 300 million to make. It would also spread the risk around and afford them more margin to have failures, which also improves on the creativity of projects.
But we'll see what they do after that... But it doesn't look good.
Guerrilla's Horizon MP project is something like a Monster Hunter game with stylized look, there were leaks not long ago from a 2020 build (rumored name Hunter's Gathering). NCSOFT project seems to be a MMO which seems to be early on its dev cycle. (rumored name Land of Salvation)
Quite the cowardly move by executives, hiding themselves from blame.
This is entirely on Sony and their mismanagement. Who knows just how far this'll go. I feel for the workers
This is entirely on Sony and their mismanagement. Who knows just how far this'll go. I feel for the workers
It does seem like MLB the show was included in 12 GAAS
At this point only Horizon MP game is left to be announced. 5 GAAS games got cancelled.
1. Helldivers 2
2. MLB Show 24
3. Concord
4. Fairgames
5. Marathon
6. Horizon MP
7. MLB Show 25
These are Sony 7 GAAS games that will release by 2026.
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Totoki taked the rol of Chairman of SIE in october, and have been having meetings with the PS Studios to see where he could reduce cost. The man, said by himself, is obsesed with growing margins. And is not like im saying that Jim Ryan has no blame here.
And to grow margins in gaming, you need to invest first, and is gonna take years to show result due to the nature of game development. I can see the sense of cancel Twisteed Metal, considering after 2-3 years the game still didnt get greenlight, but cant see how cutting in studios like Inmsomniac or Guerrilla is gonna end up with SIE making more money.
Also we are seeing the developers beeing cuts, not the executives that take these decisions in the first place.
What a terrible year for the industry.
Many felt it was either going to be London or MM that would get closed and it seems it was the latter. Which sucks since I was interested in both of their games and will now never see what London was cooking beyond those two concept arts.
Many felt it was either going to be London or MM that would get closed and it seems it was the latter. Which sucks since I was interested in both of their games and will now never see what London was cooking beyond those two concept arts.
London Studio has been long dormant as far as console players are concerned for well over a decade
Yeah but that doesn't given him control here. As I said, this is JIM's failure, Jim gets to wear that into retirement. Totoki is not welding an ax here, not yet at least. What he has signaled is that, their is no savor here... the Group is done with handing out a lifeline if Playstation runs into trouble, and it's in trouble.
Or maybe, and this is a wild thought, they should develop a platform with sustainability in mind. Sony Group isn't going to come and save them, they have to work and act like the risk is their shirts because it is. If Playstation can't do that and adjust it's ambitions accordingly, then it is a question of how long this brand will keep on trucking. They have to start acting like they are in this for the long haul, and they have LONG had a history of not doing so and getting lucky.
Luck runs out at some point. Good folks prepare for it.
Yeah, that is usually how this works... sadly. Most of those developers are just doing their jobs and the executive responsible for this gets to retire (oh and this is not the first time this has happened for Sony, remember Ken Kutaragi? same deal after... the PS3). That is not fair, it isn't meant to be fair.
Jim leaves with a mess, and other will have to clean that up.
It's mostly been a dev support house, and that is just gone. While players might not have cared, indie devs very much did. And that is gone.
UK studios were mostly working on niche/vr stuff that didn't take off. Sony probably need to bet big on one of UK studios. I mean Media Molecule guys made Fable so maybe they could be asked to make RPG.
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This was mostly done via their Liverpool office.
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I think you're right about the AAAA games. For now, they will hold on to their high development costs, but will have to reorient themselves internally. The PS5 generation can be flushed down the toilet, it won't see much of it, nor will it cause a change, maybe for a few test balloons.
We'll see what concrete change of direction comes in the spring, but this isn't exactly the headline they were hoping for on the 30th anniversary of Playstation.
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What a failure of a generation.
These people don’t deserve to be punished for some executives stupid decisions. As long as they continue doing this they will only fail more.
It’s increasingly looking like pc will push high end consoles out of existence with each passing year.
These people don’t deserve to be punished for some executives stupid decisions. As long as they continue doing this they will only fail more.
It’s increasingly looking like pc will push high end consoles out of existence with each passing year.
Did SIE close that down a few years back?
That makes things interesting for SIE. I don't think that the PS5 will be a complete failure but that really depends on how the company acts from this point onward.
Does SIE use this opportunity to build? That this instability is just a transient state as they march to stability, or do they just ax the jobs with no plan for a future?
We all here all see the Wii U has a complete loss, except for the fact that it gave Nintendo room to experiment and build. The Switch is the result of all of that. The third highest selling console of all time..... from the Wii U. With several popular titles... from a failure.
SIE is not in as dire a spot, but that is also part of the problem here. If they don't act, it will likely be too late to do so when things DO get dire.
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SIE layoffs:
London Studio GaaS - cancelled
Ubisoft and T2 are the only Western pubs eerily absent. Note the complete lack of JP pubs.
- GG - ~40 devs (~10%)
- INS - ??
- ND - ??
- London Studio - closed, 110
- Firesprite - game cancelled, ???
- Japan XDEV or Studio/PD - ???
- Technology teams
- Support teams
London Studio GaaS - cancelled
2024 - Game Industry Layoffs - Obsidian Publish
2024 - Game Industry Layoffs - Powered by Obsidian Publish.publish.obsidian.md
2023 - 10.5k~
2024 - 7.1k~
We're going to breeze past that number in a few months at this rate...
Ubisoft and T2 are the only Western pubs eerily absent. Note the complete lack of JP pubs.
2024 - Game Industry Layoffs - Obsidian Publish
2024 - Game Industry Layoffs - Powered by Obsidian Publish.
2023 - 10.5k~
2024 - 7.1k~
We're going to breeze past that number in a few months at this rate...
Now those are some depressing numbers.
I dunno, adding functionality really just adds to the value of their ecosystem for current users. If you already pay for higher plus tiers a device that lets you use the cloud streaming in more ways or take those classics with you becomes a more central buy potentially. And if you don't maybe it helps make those more expensive plans appealing too. I don't see these things substantially impacting marketing spend, it just makes a more appealing device in general.
Apple's happy to sell headphones and airpods to Android users too, but then Sony's always made for a pretty poor 'Apple'.
I can just see it; untethered Cloud, native Classics, microSD card and OLED for $299.
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The strategy to not be cutting edge this Gen unless the game actually can sell that budget off has been golden.
Making mostly AA with some AAA
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That was their Studio Liverpool (the games developer) not their main office in the city, where among others XDEV and indie support is located.
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SEGA is probably the only notable JP publisher that has done significant layoffs, last year as part as their restructuring of their Euopepean branches and they'll be on the list later(it's just that the layoffs at in March).
Nothing yet in Japan, but this is not surprising.
A lot of Japanese publishers will attempt to lay off jobs from offices around the world before they do so at home.
AA developers around the world have been struggling immensely, so I don't know if "just do AA" games is the holy grail everyone is looking for.
Square Enix would definitely be on this list had they not offloaded nearly all of SEE to Embracer.
T2's on there (VC Austin, 31st Union) though pretty light probably.
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There are Japanese laws saying layoffs can't be done unless under certain circumstances (company files for bankruptcy etc.)
https://www.employmentlawworldview.com/three-ways-to-dismiss-employees-in-japan/
https://www.employmentlawworldview.com/three-ways-to-dismiss-employees-in-japan/