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I would say mention the date of the source, becasue not only do these numbers change massively as plans change but Insomniac also has multiple replicas for multiple scenarios that it could take.
Insomniac Games Leak: Multiple Software Unit Sales and Profitability for Past and Future Releases (Read Threadmark)
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I would say mention the date of the source, becasue not only do these numbers change massively as plans change but Insomniac also has multiple replicas for multiple scenarios that it could take.
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Comparison to 2023 gamesSaw this calculation on Era
Puts GaaS money of MLB in perspective for sure. Also considering that some games did not reach 1b despite selling more than 20m+, it also shows profitable GaaS games and certain franchises (like COD or GTA) are as they are able to get such sums within a couple of days.
Diablo 4 - $666 million in 5 days
Hogwarts Legacy - Over $1 billion
Yeah, Sony is having one of those patented bad days. To be fair, their seems to be higher activity with ransomware attacks this year.
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A new generation of hacker has grown up - who were with modern computers since their birth.
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Just looked at the date...yep what I reported previously was severely out of date...my bad guys. It is close to $300 million as of this February. Redoing this with 2023 info:
Insomniac Games
FY2023 Budget Detail (as of February 6th 2023):
Insomniac + CASG + PSS
Costs include studio costs, Creative Arts, PSS QA, PSS IPL, User Research, and other groups
Spider-Man 2 Dev Costs:
LTD to 2021 Actual: $124.7 million
FY22 Actual: $106.0 million
FY23 Budget: $52.0 million
FY24 MRP: $4.0 million
= $286.7 million total planned
= $283.4 million total allowance
Spider-Man Post-Release Content Dev Costs:
FY23 Budget: $5.0 million
FY24 MRP: $15.0 million
= $20.0 million total planned
Wolverine (Fall 2025) Dev Costs:
LTD to 2021 Actual: $17.9 million
FY22 Actual: $31.6 million
FY23 Budget: $68.6 million
FY24 MRP: $96.3 million
FY25 MRP: $44.5 million
FY26 MRP: $2.0 million
FY27 MRP: $2.0 million
= $263.0 million total planned
= $242.2 million total allowance
Spider-Man 3 (Fall 2027) Dev Costs:
FY23 Budget: $15.4 million
FY24 MRP: $46.3 million
FY25 MRP: $89.3 million
FY26 MRP: $118.8 million
FY27 MRP: $59.9 million
= $329.7 million total planned
Spider-Man 3 Multiplayer (Fall 2027) Dev Costs:
LTD to 2021: $8.7 million
FY22 Actual: $9.9 million
FY23 Budget: $8.2 million
FY24 MRP: $12.0 million
FY25 MRP: $12.7 million
FY26 MRP: $11.1 million
FY27 MRP: $12.4 million
= $75.0 million total planned
New IP Dev Costs:
FY22 Actual: $0.0 million
FY23 Budget: $18.0 million
FY24 MRP: $37.0 million
FY25 MRP: $37.0 million
FY26 MRP: $37.5 million
FY27 MRP: $50.4 million
= $180.0 million total planned
X-Men 2 Dev Costs:
FY25 MRP: $19.5 million
FY26 MRP: $40.0 million
FY27 MRP: $96.1 million
= $155.7 million total planned
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This is the epitome of living in your own bubble. SM2 (2023) will likely go down as the most successful SM game ever released, weird to use that as an example considering the critical and commercial success. There's a reason why both Sony is funding and Insomniac wants to make these games: they will be insanely successful, and the devs get to work on cutting edge stuff.
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PC Ports budgets (as of Feb 2023):
Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart PC Port: $2.5 million
- FY21: $0.1 million
- FY22: $0.9 million
- FY23: $1.6 million
Spider-Man Remastered PC Port: $2.3 million
- FY21: $0.4 million
- FY22: $1.9 million
- FY23: $0.0 million
Spider-Man Miles Morales PC Port: $1.5 million
- FY21: $0.2 million
- FY22: $1.2 million
Spider-Man 2 PC Port: $4.6 million
- FY22: $0.0 million
- FY23: $0.6 million
- FY24: $4.0 million
- FY25: $0.0 million
Wolverine PC Port: $4.0 million
- FY26: $2.0 million
- FY27: $2.0 million
Spider-Man 3 PC Port:
- FY27: $7.0 million
Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart PC Port: $2.5 million
- FY21: $0.1 million
- FY22: $0.9 million
- FY23: $1.6 million
Spider-Man Remastered PC Port: $2.3 million
- FY21: $0.4 million
- FY22: $1.9 million
- FY23: $0.0 million
Spider-Man Miles Morales PC Port: $1.5 million
- FY21: $0.2 million
- FY22: $1.2 million
Spider-Man 2 PC Port: $4.6 million
- FY22: $0.0 million
- FY23: $0.6 million
- FY24: $4.0 million
- FY25: $0.0 million
Wolverine PC Port: $4.0 million
- FY26: $2.0 million
- FY27: $2.0 million
Spider-Man 3 PC Port:
- FY27: $7.0 million
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I feel like I've been hearing about open world fatigue for over a decade, despite the fact that it's been proven to be a successful genre for over two decades
It's entirely possible consumers will eventually grow tired of them, but given the massive success of games like Elden Ring and TOTK in just the last couple of years... we are a long ways off from that
It's entirely possible consumers will eventually grow tired of them, but given the massive success of games like Elden Ring and TOTK in just the last couple of years... we are a long ways off from that
Open world fatigue works like superhero fatigue, it only applies to bad games.
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I have to imagine the average age of a forum poster in 2023 is high enough that PS2 era was formative. I'm 36 and have always suspected I'm near the middle of the curve.
Actually reflecting on that gen though, I can't live without achievements, quick saves, seamless transitions, unlockable extras, almost no invisible walls...
Someone much smarter than me once told me when I started my career. The only unhackable computer is one that is off. Cybersecurity is an ever ongoing thing and it's not a matter of if, but a matter of when. Even with zero trust the human factor opens the door for phishing and other human level engineering cyber attacks.
That being said I'm very curious to read the licensing agreement between Disney and Sony for the Spider-Man and Wolverine games. Maybe even KOTOR since this leak also spreads to other studios. The movie one between Sony and Marvel was very informative from the other leak around 10 years ago.
I'm very curious how much Sony pays Marvel/Disney for PS Plus inclusion, for example. It has to be aligned with number of players and hours on top of of a minimum guaranteed fee.
If you have a link, please share!
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Following up on this...they do. Direct Sony marketing costs for Spider-Man PS4 for example was $45,772,461:
Spider-Man PS4 Profit and Loss (mid 2020)
| Disc Units Sell In | 11,704,182 |
| Disc Units Sell Thru | 10,976,852 |
| PSN Downloads (Paid Full Game) | 4,476,827 |
| --- | --- |
| Gross Sales | $734,309,356 |
| Returns/PP - Packaged Sales | -$73,610,945 |
| Discounts/Rebates - Packaged Sales | -$8,345,397 |
| Other Revenue | $19,800 |
| Cost of Goods Sold | -$17,798,904 |
| IP License Costs | -$416,068 |
| SNEI/SCEI Royalty | -$22,662,763 |
| Royalty - Dev (Post - recoup) | -$191,917,593 |
| Development Costs 1.1 Employment | -$12,511,421 |
| Development Costs 1.2 T&E | -$255,426 |
| Development Costs 1.7 Occupancy | -$531,822 |
| Development Costs 1.8 External Recharges & Revenues | -$190,820 |
| Development Costs 2.1 Depreciation | -$131,808 |
| Development Costs 7.1 Overhead Allocations | -$3,109,486 |
| Development Costs 1.3 External 3rd party Development | -$100,899,912 |
| Development Costs 1.5 Office Support & IT | -$91,729 |
| Development Costs 1.6 Data & Communications | -$1,202 |
| Development Costs 1.9 Other | $2,369 |
| Development Costs 1.4 Professional Services | -$26,457 |
| Direct Marketing Costs | -$45,772,461 |
| Total (Net Contribution) | $256,057,310 |
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Am I misreading this table? The IP license cost is 416K off 734MM revenue, or ~0.05%. That seems off.
Thanks!
You mind sharing the split that Marvel gets with each purchase?
Based on budget figures, Spider man. MP game isnt cancelled right?
That Spider-Man 2 LTD number is projected, not actual. It hasn’t sold that much yet.
That same graph also has Spider-Man 3 at 14.5 million and Wolverine at 10 million and i guarantee they haven’t sold that much yet
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Sure here you go:
Royalty Agreement
Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, Marvel shall be entitled to the following Royalties for each Title, with the Royalties for each Title starting at Tier 1. References in this Section 9 to “the Title” shall be deemed references to each Title separately and individually. The Unit Sales and Net Sales used to calculate the applicable Royalty Tiers for each Title and the Additional Content for each Title shall be separate and shall not be cross collateralized (e.g., sales of Units of Title #1 shall not be counted in the Unit Sales for Title #2 for the purposes of Table 1; Net Sales of Additional Content for Title #1 shall not be counted in the Net Sales for Title #2 for the purposes of Table 2).
Physical Units sales and Full Digital Distribution of the Title via Distribution Channels:
| (# of Unit Sales) | From | To | Physical Unit Rate (% of Net Sales) | Full Digital Distribution Rate (% of Net Sales) |
| Tier 1 | 0 | 3 million | 9% | 19% |
| Tier 2 | 3 million | 3.5 million | 11% | 21% |
| Tier 3 | 3.5 million | 4 million | 12% | 21% |
| Tier 4 | 4 million | 5 million | 13% | 21% |
| Tier 5 | 5 million | 6 million | 15% | 24% |
| Tier 6 | 6 million | 7 million | 16% | 26% |
| Tier 7 | 7 million+ | 18% | 26% |
The royalty rates set forth above for each Tier apply to Physical Unit sales and Unit sales via Full Digital Distribution, as applicable, within each range of Unit Sales. For example, if the first three million (3,000,000) of total Unit sales are comprised of one million (1,000,000) Physical Units and two million (2,000,000) Units sold via Full Digital Distribution, then a 9% royalty rate will apply to the one million (1,000,000) Physical Units and a 19% royalty rate will apply to the two million (2,000,000) Units sold via Full Digital Distribution. The following Unit sold would then be subject to the Tier 2 rates: 11% if a Physical Unit; 21% if a Unit sold via Full Digital Distribution.
Net Sales of Additional Content for the Title:
| (Net Sales of Additional Content) | From | To | Rate (% of Net Sales) |
| Tier 1 | 0 | $2.8 million | 19% |
| Tier 2 | $2.8 million | $5.25 million | 21% |
| Tier 3 | $5.25 million | $10.5 million | 23% |
| Tier 4 | $10.5 million+ | 26% |
Hardware Bundles: Licensee shall have the right to make available for sale in the Territory during the Term bundles consisting of (each such bundle, a “Bundled Unit”): (i) one (1) Physical Unit or one (1) code redeemable for a digital Unit of the Title (and may also include Additional Content, subject to Marvel’s approval in each instance (email sufficing)), (ii) one (1) Authorized Device, and (iii) one or more other Games, as approved by Marvel in each instance (email sufficing).
For the avoidance of doubt, except as otherwise approved in advance in writing by Marvel at its sole and absolute discretion on a case-by-case basis, Licensee shall be permitted to make available for sale only two (2) SKUs of each Bundled Unit (one physical and one digital).
In accordance with Section 3.1 of the Additional Terms and Conditions, Licensee shall submit to Marvel for its review and approval all aspects of the Bundled Units, including, but not limited to all packaging, creative, and marketing and promotional materials. For the avoidance of doubt, except as otherwise approved in advance in writing by Marvel at its sole discretion on a case-by-case basis, Licensee shall not use or authorize any third party to use any Marvel character to market or promote the Bundled Unit(s) except to the extent such characters appear: (i) on the packaging of the Bundled Unit, and (ii) in images depicting gameplay within the Title, each of (i) and (ii) as approved by Marvel on a case-by-case basis in accordance with the Agreement. In no event shall the Bundled Unit include any other Games or third party products (e.g., accessories) unless otherwise approved in advance in writing by Marvel, at Marvel’s sole and absolute discretion.
Licensee shall pay to Marvel Royalties in connection with the sale of Bundled Units (“Bundled Unit Sales”), calculated by multiplying the Royalties owed in connection with the sale of the Unit of the Title (as calculated using Table 1 above) by the applicable percentage of the per Unit wholesale price (“Wholesale Unit Price”), with such percentages set forth in Table 3 below.
| (# of Bundled Unit Sales) | From | To | % of Wholesale Unit Price |
| Tier 1 | 0 | 500K | 35% |
| Tier 2 | 500K | 1 million | 40% |
| Tier 3 | 1 million | 1.5 million | 45% |
| Tier 4 | 1.5 million+ | 50% |
For the avoidance of doubt, sales of all Bundled Units, whether including a Physical Unit (each such unit, a “Physical Bundled Unit”) or a code redeemable for a digital Unit (each such unit, a “Digital Bundled Unit”), shall apply towards the calculation of Bundled Unit Sales for each Tier. All Bundled Unit Sales (whether physical or digital) shall also apply towards the calculation of total Unit sales for each Tier for purposes of Table 1 above.
By way of example, if Licensee initially sells 400,000 Bundled Units (comprised of 200,000 Physical Bundled Units and 200,000 Digital Bundled Units), thereby increasing total sales of Units of the Title to 3,400,000 Units, the Royalties owed in connection with those sales shall be calculated as follows:
Physical Bundled Unit Royalties:
Number of Bundled Units: 200,000
Wholesale Unit Price: $50/Unit
Applicable % of Wholesale Unit Price Owed: 35% (Tier 1 in Table 3)
Applicable Royalty Rate: 11% (then-applicable Royalty Rate for Physical Unit Sales as set forth in Tier 2 of Table 1)
Physical Bundled Unit Royalties: $385,000 (i.e., 200,000 x $50 x 35% x 11%)
Digital Bundled Unit Royalties:
Number of Bundled Units: 200,000
Wholesale Unit Price: $30/Unit
Applicable % of Wholesale Unit Price Owed: 35% (Tier 1 in Table 3)
Applicable Royalty Rate: 21% (then-applicable Royalty Rate for Sales via Full Digital Distribution as set forth in Tier 2 of Table 1)
Digital Bundled Unit Royalties: $441,000 (i.e., 200,000 x $30 x 35% x 21%)
Licensee shall pay to Marvel Royalties in connection with the sale of any Additional Content included with any Bundled Unit, using the current retail price charged to End Users for such Additional Content at the time such Additional Content is sold as part of the Bundled Unit and the then-applicable Royalty Rate set forth in Table 2, multiplied by the then-applicable percentage set forth in Table 3.
Licensee shall ensure that the Bundled Units: (a) receive a stand-alone marketing campaign; (b) have significant placement in Licensee’s “Always On” campaigns; and (c) receive priority messaging status throughout Licensee’s owned media channels (both online and at retail stores). In addition, Licensee shall first offer Marvel the opportunity to participate in additional event and featuring opportunities, including on-stage reveals and pre-order campaigns.
Notwithstanding anything contained in this Agreement, including any obligation to exercise rights or actively exercise a license, Licensee shall not be obligated to offer for sale any Bundled Units.
Title and Additional Content Bundles: Licensee shall have the right to bundle one (1) Unit of the Title with Additional Content for the Title, subject to the following:
- “Deluxe” Editions: where the Unit of the Title and the Additional Content are offered as two separately packaged and marketed SKUs/items that are being sold together (e.g., the launch Version of the Title sold together with Additional Content for the Title), the Royalties payable for the Unit of the Title and the Additional Content shall be calculated as if sold separately at the then-prevailing price of the applicable Unit and Additional Content, and shall be counted separately for the purposes of the Royalty Tiers for the Title and Additional Content for the Title.
- “GOTY” (or similar designation) Editions: where the Unit of the Title and the Additional Content are offered together as a newly marketed/packaged SKU (e.g., a “Game of the Year” Version of the Title that includes different cover art and includes Additional Content for the Title), Marvel shall be entitled to the following Royalties on sales of Units of the GOTY bundles: (i) for a bundle consisting of one (1) Physical Unit of the Title and Additional Content, nineteen percent (19%) of Net Sales, using the physical sales calculations for Gross Revenue (i.e., the wholesale price of the physical GOTY bundle x Units sold) and Deductions, and (ii) for a bundle consisting of one (1) digital Unit of the Title and Additional Content, twenty-six percent (26%) of Net Sales, using the digital sales calculations for Gross Revenue (i.e., the price charged to each End User for each Unit of the digital GOTY bundle) and Deductions.
Limited Edition PlayStation Console: The parties agree to discuss in good faith the potential creation and distribution of a limited edition PlayStation console related to each Title, it being understood that any terms and conditions (including economic terms) would be set forth in a separate written agreement executed by the parties. For the avoidance of doubt, no party shall have any obligation or liability in the event that such an agreement is not reached.
For all Units of the Title and Additional Content sold during the Limited Rights Term, including any Bundled Unit Sales, Marvel shall be entitled to the following Royalty Rates:
- For Physical Units: 18% of Net Sales
- For Full Digital Distribution of the Title: 26% of Net Sales
- For Additional Content: 26% of Net Sales
All Royalties payable under this Schedule #1 shall be payable in accordance with the payment schedule set forth in the Additional Terms and Conditions. Any alternative form(s) of media or distribution for any Title not otherwise set forth above shall be subject to Marvel’s prior written approval in each instance, which may be conditioned on a separately negotiated royalty rate.
Guarantee
Licensee shall pay Marvel a nonrefundable advance guarantee of Title #1 Royalties in the amount of Nine Million U.S. Dollars (US $9,000,000) (the “Title #1 Guarantee”) as follows:
- Three Million U.S. Dollars ($3,000,000) upon full execution of this Agreement;
- Three Million U.S. Dollars ($3,000,000), to be paid by Licensee no later than thirty (30) days following the first anniversary of the first payment date; and
- Three Million U.S. Dollars ($3,000,000), to be paid by Licensee no later than thirty (30) days following the earlier of: (i) the Title #1 Release Date or (ii) December 31, 2025.
Licensee shall pay Marvel a nonrefundable advance guarantee of Title #2 Royalties in the amount of Nine Million U.S. Dollars (US $9,000,000) (the “Title #2 Guarantee”) as follows:
- Three Million U.S. Dollars ($3,000,000) no later than thirty (30) days following the earlier of: (i) receipt by Licensee of written notice from Marvel that the “design” milestone of the Milestone Delivery Schedule for the Title is approved; and (ii) December 31, 2027;
- Three Million U.S. Dollars ($3,000,000), to be paid by Licensee no later than thirty (30) days following the first anniversary of the first payment date; and
- Three Million U.S. Dollars ($3,000,000), to be paid by Licensee no later than thirty (30) days following the earlier of: (i) the Title #2 Release Date or (ii) December 31, 2029.
Licensee shall pay Marvel a nonrefundable advance guarantee of Title #3 Royalties in the amount of Nine Million U.S. Dollars (US $9,000,000) (the “Title #3 Guarantee”) as follows:
- Three Million U.S. Dollars ($3,000,000) no later than thirty (30) days following the earlier of: (i) receipt by Licensee of written notice from Marvel that the “design” milestone of the Milestone Delivery Schedule for the Title is approved; and (ii) December 31, 2031;
- Three Million U.S. Dollars ($3,000,000), to be paid by Licensee no later than thirty (30) days following the first anniversary of the first payment date; and
- Three Million U.S. Dollars ($3,000,000), to be paid by Licensee no later than thirty (30) days following the earlier of: (i) the Title #3 Release Date or (ii) December 31, 2033.
The Title #1 Guarantee, Title #2 Guarantee, and Title #3 Guarantee may each be referred to individually as a “Title Guarantee” and collectively as the “Title Guarantees.” The Title Guarantees may each be referred to individually as a “Guarantee” and jointly as the “Guarantees.” Each Title Guarantee is solely recoupable by Royalties payable by Licensee in connection with the applicable Title (e.g., Title #1 for the Title #1 Guarantee) that are generated during the Full Rights Term in accordance with the terms and conditions of this Schedule #1. The Guarantees shall not be cross-collateralized, with solely the Royalties payable in connection with the applicable Title recouping the applicable Publishing Agreement Guarantee (e.g., Royalties payable in connection with Title #2 cannot be used to recoup the Title #1 Guarantee).
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This is so interesting. Seems like Marvel is getting a decent split of the net sales!
This is not correct. I have just started reading the doc, but a licensor barely ever will pay for production/dev costs. They license the product and collect the money. Only time I can think of this happening is the SM movie license with NWH. That is a special case though because of Marvel signing that license in a defacto perpetuity contract.
This is correct. It's also aligned from the DICE leak where the developer mentioned they had to sell ~20% more units from their SW games to make the same amount of money from an owned IP.
EA turned down DICE’s pitch for Star Wars: Battlefront III - Bespin Bulletin
According to a reliable video game insider, EA turned down DICE’s pitch for a third entry in their Battlefront series.
bespinbulletin.com
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I also think Marvel's mandated development and marketing commitments are interesting:
Development Commitments
“Title Development Commitments”: Licensee shall spend a minimum of One Hundred and Twenty Million U.S. Dollars (US $120,000,000) on the development of each Required Title in advance of their respective Release Dates.
“Additional Projects Development Commitment”: During the Release Term, Licensee shall spend a minimum of One Hundred and Twenty Million U.S. Dollars (US $120,000,000) in the aggregate on the development of Additional Titles and/or Additional Content for the Titles that are greenlit as Additional Projects (as defined below) in accordance with the Additional Projects greenlight process set forth in Section 18 below.
The Title Development Commitments and the Additional Projects Development Commitment may be referred to individually or collectively as the “Development Commitment”. For the avoidance of doubt, and notwithstanding anything to the contrary, Licensee’s fulfillment of the Development Commitment shall be subject to the audit rights set forth in Section 7 of the Additional Terms and Conditions.
Marketing Commitments
For each Required Title individually and separately, Licensee shall spend, in the period beginning on the date the Required Title is first announced via a mutually approved press release and ending twelve (12) months after the Release Date for that Required Title (such period the “Title MC Period” for that Required Title), the following minimum marketing commitment (each Required Title’s "Title MC") for the benefit of the applicable Required Title (not Licensee’s products in general or any other Licensed Product): Thirty Million U.S. Dollars (US $30,000,000).
In addition to the Title MCs, Licensee shall commit to spend the following minimum marketing commitment (the "Additional MC") for the benefit of any and all Additional Projects (as defined in Section 18 below) (not Licensee’s products in general or any other Licensed Product): Fifteen Million U.S. Dollars (US $15,000,000). The Additional MC must be spent during the period commenced on the greenlight of the first Additional Project (pursuant to Section 18 below) and expiring on December 31, 2036 (the “Additional MC Period”).
The Title MCs and Additional MC are referred to herein collectively as the “MC”. The Title MC Periods and the Additional MC Periods are referred to herein collectively as the “MC Period(s)”.
Spends can only be counted against the fulfillment of the MC in an amount no greater than their fair market value. In the event that Licensee does not spend the MC for a Title in accordance with this Agreement during the applicable MC Period (e.g., any portion of a Title MC that remains unspent at the end of the applicable Title MC Period), Licensee shall pay Marvel the shortfall in cash to spend on marketing of a Licensed Product. A minimum of Fifteen Million U.S. Dollars (US $15,000,000) of each of the Title MCs and Seven Million Five Hundred Thousand U.S. Dollars (US $7,500,000) of the Additional MC must be spent as arm’s length real money initial purchases of media (net of discounts, credits, refunds, allowances, production costs, agency fees, and rebates) from unaffiliated companies. Licensee shall provide to Marvel the standard reports provided by media spending agencies to their clients with respect to all MC spends within thirty (30) days of Marvel’s written request (email sufficing).
PC ports cost basically nothing. Explain why Sony approved smaller titles like Sackboy.
Net sales != Revenue
Now this make more sense. Sony was not going to pay Marvel cost of hardware bundled.
This true but I don't understand the greater point or distinction you are trying to make.
Edit: Oh nm, I think I see it now. I hate user generated charts for stuff like this cause you can't see where the original source is.
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"Dont' compare two different metrics".
Especially when you trying to push certain agenda. Referring to poster I quoted.
I just edited my post. I dunno, I blanked on your point lmao. I get you now.
Wow this is kind of surprisingly lmao. Having minimum marketing expenditures makes sense because Marvel obviously wants people to be aware of the game(s) so they can get good royalties, but the budget requirements? I guess Marvel sees a minimum of $120m is what is needed to make a really quality game associated with their IP. There's no limits on how Sony spends that money, but it's not like that is a hard figure for Sony to hit considering Spider Man 2 cost $315m!!!!
As expected Playstation Now is a different contract.
This is kind of amazing to see how the contracts now compare to the contracts of the 90s Marvel era of giving away IPs.
The same is true for copyright ownership. It's really night and day how this contract is written compared to the 90s Marvel contracts.
As expected the copyright ownership that SIE has is related to source code and binaries whereas Marvel owns everything else. This is different from the movies where, for example, SPA owns the rights and likeness to Miles from the animated film.
This makes sense though. Even 90s Marvel required a minimum budget for the licensed movies (75M for Spider-Man license in movies). Otherwise they run into another Corman situation (that is from the late 80s where Roger Corman made a crappy Fantastic Four movie for 1M to keep the license).
This is kind of amazing to see how the contracts now compare to the contracts of the 90s Marvel era of giving away IPs.
The same is true for copyright ownership. It's really night and day how this contract is written compared to the 90s Marvel contracts.
As expected the copyright ownership that SIE has is related to source code and binaries whereas Marvel owns everything else. This is different from the movies where, for example, SPA owns the rights and likeness to Miles from the animated film.
This makes sense though. Even 90s Marvel required a minimum budget for the licensed movies (75M for Spider-Man license in movies). Otherwise they run into another Corman situation (that is from the late 80s where Roger Corman made a crappy Fantastic Four movie for 1M to keep the license).
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Marvel probably sees this the same way they see a big movie, you gotta spend money to make money baby!
Although, things have not been going so well for them recently, lmao.
Ooooh I see, so it's like a deterrence effect for bad actors.
Ya Marvel has been overly lavish with their productions as of late. Seems like a lot of their budgets were inflated because of their heavy reliance on post-production to clean up the messes from the actual production. It seems like they're reassessing how they're spending money now after so many commercial failures last year and this year. It'll be interesting to see what the budgets for some of the future movies will be after their cost-cutting measures are put in place.
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Problem is we already know stuff like the new Captain America movie is getting months of reshoots which feels like throwing good money after bad.
But the Insomniac Spider-Man games have been very successful so far, so there's no incentive to turn off the faucet there... yet.
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We also sees why Marvel Games is approving so many partnerships. I don't know about all the deals, but the licensing deal with Sony is very favourable to them in terms of RoI.
PlayStation knows Insomniac can deliver, so that 5M-5.5M copies to be profitable is probably not seen as a huge risk.
I mean, just look at this
View hidden content is available for registered users!
That's not even a full month worth of sales and you've got BF week/Holidays coming up.
Should actually be one of the few profitable ventures this year for Marvel even considering it's only a product out since October 20th.
This is without counting the fact that games continue to generate a lot more revenue years down the line, which is not the case with Movies. PVOD/Streaming doesn't have that much legs when it comes to generating revenue. They're just loving the gravy train.
I don't see that changing anytime soon tbh.
I might be the only one who always wonders these things, but copyright is:
Ownership of Source Code, Object Code, and Utilities -> Owned by SIE
Everything else -> Owned by Marvel
This is also interesting. Vita and PSVR are not explicitly allowed in the contract and have to be granted on a case by case basis by Marvel.
Marvel requiring Sony to spend 300K on their channel is pretty lol worthy
SM contract expires Dec 31, 2032 or 5 years after SM3 releases. X-Men license expires 10 years after the first game releases or Dec 31, 2035. Since the roadmap shows 2028 and 2026 respectively then the contract currently expires in 2032 and 2035 for each of those licenses. Of course they could always keep amending them.
Ownership of Source Code, Object Code, and Utilities -> Owned by SIE
Everything else -> Owned by Marvel
This is also interesting. Vita and PSVR are not explicitly allowed in the contract and have to be granted on a case by case basis by Marvel.
Marvel requiring Sony to spend 300K on their channel is pretty lol worthy
SM contract expires Dec 31, 2032 or 5 years after SM3 releases. X-Men license expires 10 years after the first game releases or Dec 31, 2035. Since the roadmap shows 2028 and 2026 respectively then the contract currently expires in 2032 and 2035 for each of those licenses. Of course they could always keep amending them.
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I have a feeling this topic will be redirected but there's a reason we keep circling it here. Western Media doesn't want to lose out on its access to Sony 1st party, it's simply too big a draw. Sony knows how it's influence shapes its coverage so it's symbiotic. They need each other.
It's plain old bias.
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Doesn't help when someone like Greg Miller also has a cameo in Spider-Man 2 and yet refuses to cover the juicy parts of the Insomniac leaks, yet covered the Suicide Squad leaks just the other day.
I just sees it as bias considering he also cover that capcom leak despite both also has identity theft information of employee.
If they have that kind of standard. I hope they extent it to all company rather than pick and choose because they have agenda or business to protect.
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He's the first to tell you that Kinda Funny are not really journalists but entertainers.
It's been clear for years that their judgment is not the most impartial, partially because they know so many people in the industry but they also receive a lot favours from certain publishers.
Expecting consistent sets of ethics from KF is not really a reality, it's not who they are.
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Issue though is that KF kinda presents themselves as both. They have various interviews with people in the industry, hands on previews, video reviews, podcasrs that cover news etc. Its possible to be both an entertainer and do good journalism work such as John Stewart and John Oliver. But with KF, I always felt they were bit too in bed with the industry for my tastes even from an entertainment standpoint.
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The most appalling thing is that they were happy covering Capcom leaks which were exactly the same. Nintendo leaks were also serious. Wasn't CDPR leak also big? GTA, Xbox, Squad etc. They should have just either kept silent or reported. These explanations make matter worse. "Insomniac are beloved developers....".
It is possible but I disagree that they do explicitly present themselves as journalists.
The line is blurry between what streamers/personalities do and journalists do.
In the video, they say that IGN was right to cover it and basically said that they didn't believe that they could add anything more today. It is a cop-out but it's a perfectly valid position. I suspect given this is going to be a multiple day story, they will end up referring to some of the stories in the next couple of days.
Thank you.
But that was the developers fault. If they'd not released a buggy mess the initial reception would have been better and a lot more sales would have been at full price.
However the game was also judged harshly by reviewers for non technical reasons and I think that was unfair.
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It is ALWAYS the publisher's fault for shipping a buggy game, never the developers. Especially if the publisher did not allow further funds to polish the game.
As an X-Men fan, this is cool. For people who don't know, Marvel did a retcon circa 2015 because the X-Men movie rights belonged to Fox at the time.
X-Men Family
Quicksilver
Scarlet Witch
Marvel also wouldn't be able to announce any new X-Men game until after Dec 31, 2037 (but they could license it to someone else after Dec 31st, 2035.)
I can't see as many details on the Spidey amendment since a lot of the details are on the previous documents. I would like to see if section 4.2 restricts it to T rating as has been leaked for Venom. Would have liked to see it rated M. X-Men license makes it clear it clear it can be rated M.
Spider-Man original deal was signed August 13, 2015. Amendment 10 was executed 10/16/2020. It adds Schedule 3 and 4. Identifies Spider-Man as Schedule 1. Miles Morales as Spin-Off Title 1. Adds an amendment for Music where the contract does not explicit the licensee the right to use music owned by Marvel and to do so the licensee must procure the rights to use it along with any royalty associated with it. A couple of other things here as well. Clarifies that Marvel won't exploit for the game even though they own it. Clarifies what is owned by the licensee, including derivative work of code/licensee logo/object code/etc. Changes from © MARVEL to © [insert year] MARVEL. Allows Sony to transfer the license to other subsidiaries without requiring a transfer fee (though still requires 30 days written notice and Marvel's consent) and a few other things. Schedule 3 is Spider-Man 2. Spider-Man 2 was supposed to release between September 2022 and December 2022. It required mutual agreement to move the date. If the product was not released by Dec 2023 then the contract would have became null and void unless Marvel gave explicit extension in writing. Via execution of Schedule 3, licensee was granted the right to develop Spin- off Title #2. Schedule 4 is Spider-Man 3 and its release date was scheduled between September and December 2026. If it's not released by 2027 then the contract is null and void. On full execution of Schedule 4 (Spidey 3) Sony has the right to create a Spin Off game 3 during the release term (and assuming no further amendments). They have to pay royalty rates for the spin off games as well.
I'm guessing there's an amendment 11 and others that have been signed. IGs is currently planning 2028 for Spidey 3, so it stands to reason. I do hope I get my paws on all of these to carefully dissect them.
X-Men original deal was signed 07/26/2021, so just a few weeks before the showcase with its unveil. IGs has the right to pitch some spin off games. If they don't develop spin off games then that allocated portion of 9 mil shall be due to Marvel. Notwithstanding that if less than 50% has been allocated of the "Additional Projects Development Commitment" by December 31, 2033, the unallocated portion must be used by the Licensee to develop and market one additional title ("Title #4") with specific release dates and a guarantee of royalties.
I'm tired now and going to sleep. Will try to dissect it some more later.
X-Men Family
Quicksilver
Scarlet Witch
Marvel also wouldn't be able to announce any new X-Men game until after Dec 31, 2037 (but they could license it to someone else after Dec 31st, 2035.)
I can't see as many details on the Spidey amendment since a lot of the details are on the previous documents. I would like to see if section 4.2 restricts it to T rating as has been leaked for Venom. Would have liked to see it rated M. X-Men license makes it clear it clear it can be rated M.
Spider-Man original deal was signed August 13, 2015. Amendment 10 was executed 10/16/2020. It adds Schedule 3 and 4. Identifies Spider-Man as Schedule 1. Miles Morales as Spin-Off Title 1. Adds an amendment for Music where the contract does not explicit the licensee the right to use music owned by Marvel and to do so the licensee must procure the rights to use it along with any royalty associated with it. A couple of other things here as well. Clarifies that Marvel won't exploit for the game even though they own it. Clarifies what is owned by the licensee, including derivative work of code/licensee logo/object code/etc. Changes from © MARVEL to © [insert year] MARVEL. Allows Sony to transfer the license to other subsidiaries without requiring a transfer fee (though still requires 30 days written notice and Marvel's consent) and a few other things. Schedule 3 is Spider-Man 2. Spider-Man 2 was supposed to release between September 2022 and December 2022. It required mutual agreement to move the date. If the product was not released by Dec 2023 then the contract would have became null and void unless Marvel gave explicit extension in writing. Via execution of Schedule 3, licensee was granted the right to develop Spin- off Title #2. Schedule 4 is Spider-Man 3 and its release date was scheduled between September and December 2026. If it's not released by 2027 then the contract is null and void. On full execution of Schedule 4 (Spidey 3) Sony has the right to create a Spin Off game 3 during the release term (and assuming no further amendments). They have to pay royalty rates for the spin off games as well.
I'm guessing there's an amendment 11 and others that have been signed. IGs is currently planning 2028 for Spidey 3, so it stands to reason. I do hope I get my paws on all of these to carefully dissect them.
X-Men original deal was signed 07/26/2021, so just a few weeks before the showcase with its unveil. IGs has the right to pitch some spin off games. If they don't develop spin off games then that allocated portion of 9 mil shall be due to Marvel. Notwithstanding that if less than 50% has been allocated of the "Additional Projects Development Commitment" by December 31, 2033, the unallocated portion must be used by the Licensee to develop and market one additional title ("Title #4") with specific release dates and a guarantee of royalties.
I'm tired now and going to sleep. Will try to dissect it some more later.
It's an interesting case, I don't know how much the bugs affected sales, I played it at launch and it was certainly a problem, it barely hit a 70 on Metacritic. But even for all the mixed opinions, it became one of those weird in-between games, where it had a large amount of haters and a large amount of fans. I thought the zombie hordes were fucking incredible.
But there is no doubt the critics were unfair to Days Gone, it came out at the apex of open-world fatigue, but that proved to be more a niche and petty criticism from journalists as open-world games still dominate. I still remember the Eurogamer review where it was blasted for using a white protagonist, and how Gamespot scored it poorly because Deacon looked at his girl's ass.
It was also one of those games that were very long, and journalists don't like to force play 7 days in a row to finish a review. Even good games become tiresome playing like that.
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I think things that might've played a factor in Days Gone's reception
-Deacon was an unlikeable character for the first 6-8 hours of the game.
-Bugs
-General lack of Polish in many areas where PS games usually excel ( like jarring loading screens/black screensscenes, where as most PS Studio cleverly hide those loading times DURING the cutscene )
-The Open World felt really gated by the story in ways most games of the genre are not, there was a clear lack of integration between Story and the world that was more present than most games, even the average ones.
This last one in particular is probably a big reason for the score being the way it is.
I'm skipping over a lot, but there was a lot of things "wrong" with Days Gone, which to be fair, could've easily been fixed had a sequel come to pass.
But yeah, gameplay loop/feel felt very stellar to me and a lot of people, this is why the game picked up in sales down the line. But I can understand why critics would rate it as low as some of the lesser reviewed AC/Far Cry and the likes.