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A Sales Story | OT |

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Lelouch0612

Lelouch0612

Staff
Archivist Genius Staff
With this thread, Install Base introduces the "A Sales Story" format, a Community-driven effort aiming to put the spotlight on a game's success, one at each time.

Since this is a Community effort, the idea is to let us know your feelings and ideas on the format. It is important to strike a balance so that the stories are both interesting and still enjoyable to read.

We want the format to be a regular occurence, one episode every two weeks, with as many different contributors as possible. The idea is really to make this thread a place where anyone can share their knowledge and passion, while inspiring others to do the same.

The thread has been restructured so that every upcoming episodes will be published here. It'll help in terms of archiving and allow new joiners to catch up pretty easily.

For those interested, and I know there are a lot of them, don't hesitate to DM me to secure a spot.

Until now, here are the following stories:

A Sales Story | E01 | Octopath Traveler by @Lelouch0612
A Sales Story | E02 | Twilight Princess by @Ishaan
A Sales Story | E03 | Persona 5 by @Phantom Thief
A Sales Story | E04 | Fire Emblem: Awakening by @alpaca_apple
A Sales Story | E05 | Xenoblade Chronicles 2 by @Aostia82
A Sales Story | E06 | Starcraft by @Marth
A Sales Story | E07 | Starcraft II by @Marth
A Sales Story | E08 | Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle by @Aostia82
A Sales Story | E09 | Hyrule Warriors by @Aostia82
A Sales Story | E10 | Breath of the Wild by @Ishaan
 
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Great OP and great format!
thanks to everyone involved (starting with OP, of course!)

Btw: I loved the 2D-HD style, I loved Octopath, so...let's go Asano!
 
The “closer look” at specific games’ sales and information about the history of the developer/ previous sales history is a great idea! Really enjoyed reading about OT and Team Asano, thanks for taking the time to write about it! Looking forward to reading other members’ work as well :)
If I get some free time, I would love to cover the sales history of the FE series by IntSys and extension FE3H but theres quite a lot to write about
 
alpaca_apple said:
The “closer look” at specific games’ sales and information about the history of the developer/ previous sales history is a great idea! Really enjoyed reading about OT and Team Asano, thanks for taking the time to write about it! Looking forward to reading other members’ work as well :)
If I get some free time, I would love to cover the sales history of the FE series by IntSys and extension FE3H but theres quite a lot to write about
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While a zoom on the whole franchise might be too broad, a focus on a specific game might be very interesting.

There are definitely some great candidates in the Fire Emblem series for a specific focus 👌
 
can I just suggest to put some sort of "bullet point" list with the known sales goales achieved?
something like

- Debut numbers (JP, etc..)
- First update (1 million mark 5 months after release)
- Switch sales update before PC launch (2 millions..)
- LTD sales (Switch + PC) 3.2 millions


(note: those numbers are made up by me right now lol)
 
Aostia82 said:
can I just suggest to put some sort of "bullet point" list with the known sales goales achieved?
something like

- Debut numbers (JP, etc..)
- First update (1 million mark 5 months after release)
- Switch sales update before PC launch (2 millions..)
- LTD sales (Switch + PC) 3.2 millions


(note: those numbers are made up by me right now lol)
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That's a great idea, thanks !
 
I'm guessing a thread about Metroid Dread, a game that went from being a punchline to the best selling game in a franchise that is almost middle aged in the span of months is coming.
 
Beautiful series idea! :coffee:
Can't wait to dig in. Also, I am imagining a Youtube video version of this, narrated by Brandon Jones (of EZ Allies) :p

Edit: dang that's an epic opening paragraph 😂
 
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Great format and great post!

Would love to see more and there are some great sales stories of the past few years!
 
Lelouch0612 said:
That's a great idea, thanks !
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Nothing! It could be interesting (if it's feasible, depending on how many users are involved and committed since the beginning) to put a teaser at the end with i.e.: Next episode: Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle!

Lelouch0612 said:
Every member can make their own episode focusing on the game they like ;)

You just have to volunteer and tell me the game you'll be covering so I can put you on the schedule !
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I've seen interested in Luigi's Mansion 3 and Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle for which I could contribute somehow, if needed. Something I can't contribute about but would be very interesting imho is Elden Ring - I think that game really made the "Souls-like brand" blow up in terms of massive day-one popularity
 
Thanks for the writeup Ishaan! Even if Windwaker is a Zelda game I adore, I’m glad that Aonuma and the Zelda dev team went in a new direction to make TP over a WW sequel. It seems they were able to learn a lot from the experience.

Tokuiten said:
What I'm curious about: What made Aonuma go from TP to SS, when TP was such a success for all the things you mention, the realistic designs, the more open world, the horse riding, etc.? Make me feel like some very powerful indiviual (*cough* Miyamoto *cough*) wanted to drive motioncontrols and reach the Wii's more casual audience, sacrificing what TP had built up at this point.
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Here’s an Iwata Asks about Skyward Sword, seemed that they wanted to utilize the new MotionPlus tech that had just been developed. https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-As...a-Detour/1-Starting-with-a-Detour-236062.html

I personally feel Aonuma and Nintendo were tweaking with the Zelda formula in order to improve its sales. TP did sell incredibly well in NA but in Japan it sold 642,607 total on both Wii and Gamecube, worse than Windwaker’s Lifetime sales of 837,391. Not that Skyward Sword’s changes improved its sales in Japan, it sold less than TP.
 
SS is fundamentally flawed; its early dungeons for me were so basic but as the game continued it began to open up and you can see that they are toying more with the format. The sand section for me is basically a prototype for BotW.
 
unkindlynice said:
SS is fundamentally flawed; its early dungeons for me were so basic but as the game continued it began to open up and you can see that they are toying more with the format. The sand section for me is basically a prototype for BotW.
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since Windwaker, every Zelda felt like a prototype to what comes next. they really took the "call and respond" method to heart. what's more, they do it without making the same thing twice. sometimes you see media essentially do the last thing, just fixed. but the Zelda team manages to take criticisms of the previous games and very noticeably apply them in a completely different feeling game
 
sfortunato said:
Was this eventually turned into Phantom Hourglass?
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No, they were completely unrelated. A separate group began prototyping ideas for Zelda on the DS around May 2004, after TP had already gone into development. They were initially messing around with the idea of another multiplayer game on the DS, but then changed gears to begin experimenting with the touch screen instead. Essentially, the development cycles of Minish Cap, Twilight Princess, and Phantom Hourglass all overlapped at one point.
 
Amazing writeup Ishann! Read your book about Zelda Development some years ago and you're a very accomplished writer and researcher! Also, I really like these sales story so far. Awesome idea.
 
Superb report Ishaan, it really puts in perspective the role of Twillight Princess in Nintendo's history. And in an age predating the PS4/XboxOne era, it really sold well.
 
This theread is great but it would be better if each new game came on a separate thread.

Keep the good work guys. Love this community.

Edit: i actually wanna play twilight princess now. I finished that game only one time.
 
Tokuiten said:
Dear god, this and the following two paragraphs read like a nightmare (from my pov). I never knew to which degree Miyamoto was responsible for SS, but this is absolutely damning. I feel like he didn't receive enough criticism for that, likely because of his legend status as a person. But man, imagine someone like Harada did this, we'd be be clowning him forever. I wonder if Aonuma/Fujibayashi knew that it would become a badly received game, when in 2009 Minecraft released and became a massive hit, a game that is super complex and open in nature, the opposite of what Miyamoto told them to make the next Zelda.
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I don’t really think attempting to develop and incorporate new ideas like motion controlled swordplay and catering to a less “hardcore” audience with Wii games is really worthy of being “clowned forever.” Yes, in hindsight SS ended up having some issues and not being particularly appealing to many folks, but I don’t think it’s fair to roast Miyamoto or Iwata (or anyone else) for trying something different.

Anyway, thanks for the write-up on TP, I really appreciate the level of insight provided. Twilight Princess was the first 3D Zelda I completed and left a big impact on me - I know it’s pretty common to criticize the game structure as too similar to OoT and the artsytle for being dark and “gritty,” but I was enthralled with the game and still love it for its excellent dungeon design, top tier OST, and Midna’s character development (still the best “companion character” in the series imo). I think Nintendo made a wise choice here to play a little more toward the sensibilities of their Western audience but not lose their unique Japanese game design philosophies.
 
This is amazing! I wonder if it isn’t too far fetched to say that Twilight Princess is one of Zelda’s most important games, right after the original and Ocarina of Time.
 
I wonder if TP could manage to sell near 20M if Wii audience was more similar to Switch. I don't believe it could manage BOTW numbers as the game is also really loved in Japan and the sandbox approach is really popular around the world.
Though I believe it could have a bump near to Mario Galaxy(Wii) -> Mario Odyssey(Switch).
Jbone916 said:
Anyway, thanks for the write-up on TP, I really appreciate the level of insight provided. Twilight Princess was the first 3D Zelda I completed and left a big impact on me - I know it’s pretty common to criticize the game structure as too similar to OoT and the artsytle for being dark and “gritty,” but I was enthralled with the game and still love it for its excellent dungeon design, top tier OST, and Midna’s character development (still the best “companion character” in the series imo). I think Nintendo made a wise choice here to play a little more toward the sensibilities of their Western audience but not lose their unique Japanese game design philosophies.
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Yep. I'm really fan of it's tone. Imo it's the perfect sweetspot between something lighthearted as BOTW VS dark as Elden Ring. While the game failed to live to my hype(no game could) I really really enjoyed it.
 
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Great write up Ishaan. Really captured the significance of TP in Zelda's market relevance.
 
The "book" being referred to is basically that dissertation/Wiki page on Zelda Wiki. You can read it either in Wiki form (with citations for virtually everything) or e-Book form as a PDF and with a lot more visual flair. (Although, the e-Book version is slightly out of date... I haven't had the chance to update it in a while, whereas I routinely make updates/tweaks to the Wiki page.)

A couple of my other Zelda-related projects that may be of interest:

The Legend of Zelda - Series Sales
The Legend of Zelda - Cancelled Games

daphnes nohansen hyrule said:
Thank you so much, this is so fun, realistic Zelda will always be the ace up the sleeve of Nintendo if Zelda needs to be ''saved'' again.
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I think Zelda going dark(ish) fantasy again at some point is an inevitability, as they keep playing with different backdrops and settings. Not that Twilight Princess was dark fantasy, but yeah, just about everyone dug the setting and moodiness, outside of a smaller handful of people that don't like Zelda exploring that sort of thing. It could take a while, though—judging by their trajectory so far, I wouldn't be surprised if the next game after BOTW2 leans more heavily towards sci-fi. They've been flirting with sci-fi/futuristic elements ever since Zelda 1. TP did it, Skyward Sword did it, BOTW does it etc.
 
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Reading that section on the internal reception to Wind Waker was a bummer, glad time and distance have given the game the revaluation it deserves.

That debate about the opening is intriguing; truly judging is of course impossible because one exists and one doesn't, but my gut tells me that the in media res opening probably would have better a better artistic choice, the opening of TP really plods.
 
I disagree completely with the notion that TP "saved" Zelda. Its increase in sales compared to the previous best selling game in the series is barely noticeable and given the Wii's userbase I'd say even disappointing. Critical reception for the game has also gotten worse over the years unlike Wind Waker for example.
 
Sampdoria said:
I disagree completely with the notion that TP "saved" Zelda. Its increase in sales compared to the previous best selling game in the series is barely noticeable and given the Wii's userbase I'd say even disappointing. Critical reception for the game has also gotten worse over the years unlike Wind Waker for example.
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Wii userbase was not that interested on " hardcore" games. So the sales numbers alone can give us the wrong impression. A more fair way to compare is using 3d Mario as reference. Oot and TP are closer to the corresponding 3d Mario of the same gen than WW or MM for example. Though it's not that fair with MM because of the need for a expansion pack. So in a sense TP saved 3d Zelda as it could sell closer to 3d Mario again.

And about the critical reception compared with Wind Waker. Back then the cool thing among vocal Zelda fans was to trash "celda". Now the cool thing is to trash on the more realistic approach. Personally I feel they did a very good job on both approaches. Both have it's glaring flaws and great points and while I personally prefer TP I'm glad a lot of people gave WW a chance.
 
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Tokuiten said:
Nice thread idea! Will continue reading those.

Regarding Twilight Princess: It feels a bit like a stretch to say this game layed out the path for BotW. If so: How do you explain Nintendo following it up with SS, the literal anti-thesis to not only TP, but especially BotW? In a way, I'd call SS "the game that saved Zelda", because it was such a failure that it made Nintendo wake up and take a differnet approach. What I'm curious about: What made Aonuma go from TP to SS, when TP was such a success for all the things you mention, the realistic designs, the more open world, the horse riding, etc.? Make me feel like some very powerful indiviual (*cough* Miyamoto *cough*) wanted to drive motioncontrols and reach the Wii's more casual audience, sacrificing what TP had built up at this point.

Interesting though that TP's world was used for BotW's development. Would love to find out more about how Monolith Soft took it from there.
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I’m playing Skyward Sword HD right now and I actually can see a straight line from it to BOTW in terms of certain gameplay mechanics. It’s clearly where the Ocarina of time gameplay loop formula jumped the shark. It’s also clear they were experimenting with new gameplay ideas but couldn’t get out of the OOT shackles. They had a lot of new ideas that ended up being thrown in as another puzzle because the overall gameplay loop wouldn’t let any other way. The stamina wheel is an example where makes a lot more sense in an open world but is just there in Skyward Sword’s linear gameplay.

As for Twilight Princess, it’s clear that the team had other gameplay ideas that they couldn’t get in the final game due to linearity, hardware, or time. However, it’s also clear that Breath of the Wild borrowed the overall visual cues of looking like a vast world and realistically proportioned characters.

While Breath of the Wild largely was different from the OOT-likes, it clearly has specific visual and gameplay influence from its immediate predecessors while taking its gameplay loop from The Legend of Zelda.
 
Sampdoria said:
I disagree completely with the notion that TP "saved" Zelda. Its increase in sales compared to the previous best selling game in the series is barely noticeable and given the Wii's userbase I'd say even disappointing. Critical reception for the game has also gotten worse over the years unlike Wind Waker for example.
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Look at it within the context of the mid 2000’s, not retroactively.

I was in college when the PS2 and Cube systems came out. My peers were interested in more OOT, more Goldeneye, and more Mario Kart. None were available at the Cube launch and when they came they were either half baked or looked like a cartoon. While it’s now completely ok for a game to look like a cartoon, the trends in the early 2000’s were towards a more realistic grim dark art style. It took until the PS360 games overdid it for there to be a correction where many different art styles are good. The chibi style was regarded as for babies and lame. Nobody in North America was familiar with it as a reference to a specific anime style. GTA3 took my peers’ attention away for good until the Wii brought them back.

The most common games for people to get in Wii’s launch period was Wii Sports (part of the price of admission) and Twilight Princess. Twilight Princess did eventually stop selling unlike The Legend of Zelda and Breath of the Wild but that was the nature of OOT-like 3D puzzle boxes. The OOT-likes have little replay ability and the hype did die out like for JRPG’s. The sales were good for the series at the time, especially coming off the Wind Waker disaster.
 
Is it possible to make suggestions for next games? If yes, I'd like to see a Luigi's Mansion, the whole series. For a game that was a technical showcase for Gamecube, as far as I know, to a game which basically defined Luigi as a good protagonist and gave a whole personal universe for him, I think it would be cool to read about.
 
God I want to do a Splatoon sales story so bad, cause it’s just mind-boggling what it’s accomplished in less than a decade. Too busy though.
 
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