Bamco and even Illusion have dabled in there and ti failed to do anything good. I think for many, it is time to understand that at the current status, VR is simply intrussive enough for it to become Mass market product.
The reasons and consequences of the decline of Playstation in Japan [UPDATE: New Guidelines]
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Bamco and even Illusion have dabled in there and ti failed to do anything good. I think for many, it is time to understand that at the current status, VR is simply intrussive enough for it to become Mass market product.
Ha, I guess that is true.
I think it would take a bigger mistake than in the past unless third parties are idiots. They can't really afford to wait and see on whatever comes next so Nintendo should have more upfront support than ever before.
The real question for me is, what happens when the novelty becomes the new normality?
Presently we are still in a transitional phase.
Did Nintendo need to go for the PlayStation handheld line's throat post DS?
No, however by doing so when the moment was favourable brought huge dividends down the road (even if 3DS had its own troubles...).
Presently we are still in a transitional phase.
There is never a better time to hit hard than when your opponent is down.
Did Nintendo need to go for the PlayStation handheld line's throat post DS?
No, however by doing so when the moment was favourable brought huge dividends down the road (even if 3DS had its own troubles...).
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As someone who owned and played the game..... You cannot have played it.
As a jrpg fan, ps1 was my favorite console....but lol wasn't a highlight.
Or maybe you did and that nonsense struck a cord with you....
Sony needs to bring back Alundra before they bother with any other jrpg franchise, aside from maybe Arc.
Sony focuses on more cinematographer games and Nintendo more on arcade games. Because of the ethos: Sony is a multimedia company, Nintendo is more a toy/carnival company.
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You speaking on Alundra, I imagine cuz I'm sure lol never got a sequel
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Legaia 2: Duel Saga - Wikipedia
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That’s a good point, it’s “Western market success”. It’s also difficult to say that their particular approach has any cachet in a “worldwide” context without figures from places like China, South America, the Middle East and Africa, which I don’t have handy to refer to.
On that topic, this is purely speculative on my part, but it’s my assertion that Sony’s move to PC publishing of their content is at least in part to hopefully push their content into markets that are historically not enamoured with the dedicated game hardware business and reap the benefits of that, hopefully making new loyal customers in the process. Whether or not it pans out that way is still a question mark to me, since I have no information on that, but I’d certainly be curious to see data points in that direction.
I’m not disputing the bolded statement, but I’d be interested in reading more on this, so if you have links and such, feel free to send them my way.
And neglect feels like the right framing here. While every platform holder has a large array of one-and-done IPs and dead franchises, Sony’s graveyard is perhaps bigger than people are comfortable with.
While Nintendo has been far more comfortable with middling to moderate successes in their 1st-party lineup and has no qualms with IP sitting out a generation or two before revisiting it, Sony seemed laser-focused on only their greatest successes. So much of what they developed in the PS1 era never saw a follow-up, and this mostly continued on into the PS2. The runaway success of God of War seemed to re-focus their efforts and helped shape the direction of all their content moving forward, but it left yet more IPs on the cutting room floor. There was seemingly no room for middling to moderate success in Sony’s internal development, nor did Sony want to make room to build them into bigger successes or forgive temporary shortcomings, they wanted what was bringing them sales in the largest singular market (the US), where their competition was at its fiercest, and seemed to achieve great success in the rest of the West.
Part of how that played out is because of what @Celine said about a difference in their focus. Much like 3rd-parties were often (perhaps erroneously) fretting about having to compete with Nintendo’s 1st-party software, Sony seemingly wanted 3rd-parties to take centre stage with PS1 and had far less interest in building up franchises to create similar perceptions/concerns in their own ecosystem. Sometime in the PS2 and PS3 era (couldn’t tell you precisely when, but I’d venture a guess that it was around the PS3 launch), I imagine the same thought occurred to Sony that occurred to many other people over time: if your whole business model involves giving the power to 3rd-parties to add the bulk of the value proposition to your hardware platform, you’ve given them all the power to both make and break your business at the drop of a hat.
This was likely felt most acutely with the first few years of the PS3 lifespan, which explains the major course correction in the second half of its life. And their production was entirely focused around what Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, Insomniac, et al wanted to make, which was proving to be their most successful software by sales and accolades. Whether or not the titles sold in Japan was of less concern to them, as I can only assume they thought they had Japan by the short & curlies so long as Japanese publishers were bringing the heaviest hitters there ”exclusively” (read: not on Nintendo hardware) and the mid-tier developers/publishers seeing no other viable alternative.
Sony’s trouble in Japan is, from my estimation, due to them seeing Microsoft and their competitive position in the US as a far larger existential crisis to the PlayStation brand and incorrectly assuming Japan was not a problem in the making. That didn’t exactly pan out because they under-estimated Nintendo, who was ready to capitalize on Sony taking their eye off the region, which was probably really easy to time since Sony weren’t exactly being all that secretive about where their priorities were.
And this change in their focus has left an unpleasant feeling about the platform for some time. Xi (Devil Dice) ain’t a heavy hitter by any means, but I love it enough that I imported a Japanese PS Classic just to have working hardware to play it (and Puzzle Fighter). But I know now that I’ll never see that series again and have (to some degree) made my peace with it. But with the long list of dead IPs from Sony, the decision to abandon what doesn’t sell gangbusters has left more than a few people really sour about their 1st-party strategy, and I’m sure that includes many Japanese game enthusiasts, as well.
It’s my position that mid-tier games are the foundation or fundament on which a successful hardware platform is built in Japan, with smaller-in-scope experiences tiding them over until the next big release, and Sony’s decisions are leaving them without these titles to their detriment in Japan.
Exactly. Nintendo is a capitalist enterprise, they don’t only have interest in what sustains them or what they “need”. They saw an opening to make more money and they took it, plain and simple.
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Sony's two biggest attempts to do something about the Japanese market last gen, Soul Sacrifice and Freedom Wars, are having their online shut down on Christmas Eve.
These two were efforts, along with God Eater before it, to replace the Monster Hunter success that the PSP had that the Vita did not. Unlike GE though neither Freedom Wars nor Soul Sacrifice did enough to warrant any sequels.
These were also more or less the biggest first party projects the Vita ever had and just behind The Last Guardian as the biggest projects with Japan Studio oversight that entire generation. They never even bothered trying to port either one to PS4, nor attempt any sequels. Even Gravity Daze got a shot on the console market!
Freedom Wars And Soul Sacrifice's Servers Will Shut Down This December, Announces PlayStation - PlayStation Universe
The servers for Freedom Wars and Soul Sacrifice on the PS Vita will shut down towards the end of December, announces PlayStation.
www.psu.com
These two were efforts, along with God Eater before it, to replace the Monster Hunter success that the PSP had that the Vita did not. Unlike GE though neither Freedom Wars nor Soul Sacrifice did enough to warrant any sequels.
These were also more or less the biggest first party projects the Vita ever had and just behind The Last Guardian as the biggest projects with Japan Studio oversight that entire generation. They never even bothered trying to port either one to PS4, nor attempt any sequels. Even Gravity Daze got a shot on the console market!
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Sony not giving Freedom Wars a second chance on PS4 even with just a simple HD port should be considered a war crime.Sony's two biggest attempts to do something about the Japanese market last gen, Soul Sacrifice and Freedom Wars, are having their online shut down on Christmas Eve.
Freedom Wars And Soul Sacrifice's Servers Will Shut Down This December, Announces PlayStation - PlayStation Universe
The servers for Freedom Wars and Soul Sacrifice on the PS Vita will shut down towards the end of December, announces PlayStation.www.psu.com
These two were efforts, along with God Eater before it, to replace the Monster Hunter success that the PSP had that the Vita did not. Unlike GE though neither Freedom Wars nor Soul Sacrifice did enough to warrant any sequels.
These were also more or less the biggest first party projects the Vita ever had and just behind The Last Guardian as the biggest projects with Japan Studio oversight that entire generation. They never even bothered trying to port either one to PS4, nor attempt any sequels. Even Gravity Daze got a shot on the console market!
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I want Sony to bring back stuff like that and also Wild Arms and Everybody's Golf! That's what I'm missing from them. Just their older stuff given new titles.
Microsoft, besides being a behemoth in the tech area, it´s a paper tiger in entertainment interactive( aka games). Microsoft with a defensive position against sony ( in the battle against who will be the multimedia center in the home), in the long run, assecured the Sony position more than demolished because of reinforcement multiplatform production of third party companies. Lossing billions of dollars in this process. Now, chasing exclusives and buying companies pivot for Sony's success, Microsoft will hurt more Sony than ever. It´s a paper tiger, but with a boatload of cash. And the Series S with Live/game pass/remote play will be the lower end of AAA games now
I believe Sony sees Nintendo as more dangerous because Nintendo kicks Sony out of the portable business. Nintendo never loses in portable hardware. Nintendo experiments too much, but Nintendo never loses in the portable market, it´s a big feat. And Nintendo it´s blurry with the lines of portable/stationary with the Switch. It´s not been a trend because Sony needs games will be on TV, primary. The roots of Sony in game realm it´s a multimedia center with a TV screen.
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I don't think Sony takes Nintendo seriously. Which I think is to their detriment, but it is what it is, I don't think Nintendo is taken seriously by Sony beyond basic domestic considerations.
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Right. Even with consistent AAA titles hitting VR (which wont happen because the small audience wont sustain high dev costs), VR is not gonna be a massive hit in the near future. The large headset cutting you off from real life isnt very appealing for daily use.
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To call them a "paper tiger" feels like a bit of a stretch. Frankly, had Sony not re-doubled their efforts after launch, which included a strong and competent 1st-party lineup, Xbox 360 would have completely run away with that generation by the end of it and we'd be having a different conversation.
What I will say is that Microsoft's success seemed in the past to depend entirely on someone else dropping the ball. PS3 was late, more expensive and with little to justify the extra expense in the eyes of the consumer. The "Mattrick era" had largely been a mistake, because he mistook someone else's failure for their success, got high on his own farts and thought that they had the market leader position in the bag prematurely. The "Spencer era", while I have misgivings on how it's gone down, has been full of really aggressive competitive moves meant to bolster their position and take nothing for granted: Game Pass, making sure they permanently had the budget-minded consumer in mind from day one positioning the Series S as a Game Pass box, redefining the expectation for backwards compatibility, the Zenimax acquisition (which was a brute-force play to outdo Sony's 1st-party lineup facilitated by a lot of cash, no lie)... Microsoft isn't an ineffectual "paper tiger", nipping closely at PS5's heels by some estimates makes that abundantly clear. But they are definitely behaving in a manner that suggests they are going to try to outlast Sony in the long run and wait for another big mistake but won't waste a second chance to use that mistake to figuratively push a rival down a flight of stairs.
But talking about Microsoft's Xbox business strategy or efficacy in a thread about the Japanese games market is just about as off topic as you can get, so I will leave it at that.
Hindsight is always 20/20, but I will say that the only reason I can see for why this shift in the Japanese market could have ever played out as it did is if Sony did at one point underestimate Nintendo and their ability to claw back the advantage in Japan, at the worst possible time and in the worst possible way, seemingly capturing 90% of the Japanese market entirely for themselves. And Sony continuing to seemingly short-change Japan with PS5 hardware shipments tells me they've already conceded to a loss with the PS5 in Japan, at least temporarily, waiting to see if Nintendo's dominant position there leads to bad blood again like it used to so they can pull pages out of the PS1 playbook again.
But, without knowing the future, this might also be an underestimation of Nintendo. With Switch hardware being as successful as it has been in the #1 and #2 markets for dedicated gaming hardware and strong software sales to match, Nintendo's next move and strong current position could add further wrinkles. I will say, from a business perspective, what happens next is going to be incredibly interesting, either way.
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It did, on PS2.
I'm such an idiot. An absolute dumbass.
I apologize sincerely.
I said Legend of legaia, but I meant that trash heap of Legend of Dragoon. I never played Legaia actually, so I can't speak on it.
I just knew you were talking about that FF wannabe nonsense game.
My bad man.
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Of course they will. Nintendo cutting Sony down completely means a domestic market in which that smaller 3rd parties can't ignore the ruler.
Which equals more money for the platform.
Which means more titles that Nintendo can ship overseas which only raises the value proposition for their own console.
Now the bigger 3rd parties might just write off Japan for their tentpole titles(except Capcom for MH, Sqenx for Dragon Quest) and focus on overseas markets but for the smaller studios, it's get on board or die time.
Should it come to that, just hope Nintendo learned from the brutal lessons of almost 30 years ago.
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I don't think so. So long as a platform holder can survive in one of the top 2 sales regions for dedicated games hardware, there will always be an opportunity for recovery when the time is right. Everything Nintendo has done to keep the majority of the Japanese market like they have is likely to start eroding the moment they stop the current business strategies that won them that dominant position. The only way around that is for Sony to exit the market entirely, which isn't likely to happen any time soon.
Hell, not even Microsoft stops trying to sell their games and hardware in Japan, because you at least want your presence known there in the event of an opportunity that arises to try and make a move.
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Any article about Sony from the Wall Street Journal/Bloomberg starting with this one from before the release of the PS5.
Sony Positions Next PlayStation for Hard-Core Gamers
Sony’s next-generation PlayStation is still more than a year away, but its marketing strategy against newcomers like Google is already clear: Focus on hard-core gamers who obsess over the latest features.
www.wsj.com
Bloomberg: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...hts-on-sony-s-home-turf-in-game-console-clash
Bonus part of the article which is something I even bring up about how Sony handles their events.
NISA giving an apology after saying how unfriendly Sony has gotten (link contains both the original statement and the apology)
NIS America apologizes for seemingly negative comments towards PS4
NIS America president Takuro Yamashita has issued an apology regarding comments made in the MCV April 2018 issue article “Switching Gear” (available here, page 38).
www.gematsu.com
We also got this recent open letter from Matsuyama, the CEO of Cyberconnect2, thanking Nintendo
Nintendo General Discussion |ST Oct. 2021|
Yall there's a pretty serious dust storm around my area right now. Like, solid billows of dust blowing across the road the way snow does in the winter. Can't hardly even see a quarter mile down the road before visibility disappears. It's that thick. I guess this is what happens when a new...
famiboards.com
Those issues sound very much like Sony and having to contact North American offices as we learned many times now from other smaller JP devs complaining about such issues which have been translated by sites like Gematsu.
Visual novel Silverio Trinity coming to PlayStation, hindered by recent Sony regulations
Light, the studio behind Dies irae: Amantes amentes, is developing a PlayStation version (PlayStation 4 or PS Vita was not specifically clarified) of its January 2017-released ages 18 and up visual…
www.gematsu.com
Theswweet from RPGsite also had a Tweet thread about the changes in DDLC and how Sony's changes to games only ever target Japanese developers and games that take heavy anime inspirations.
There has been an update since Swweet's thread though regarding the part about the studio, Light. Light announced their dissolution March 31st 2019, but as of a month or 2 ago Light is back and planning to continue on, but I do not know if it has any of the original team members involved. The interesting thing here is their first game which was announced at this past Tokyo Game Show is Switch exclusive.
Magatsu Barai opening movie
Light has released the opening movie for “new-generation battle visual novel” Magatsu Barai.
www.gematsu.com
There's way more I'm likely forgetting off the top of my head, but those have been the major ones. There are plenty other discussions of how unfriendly Sony has become to smaller developers from posts by Anihawk, who's talked about all sorts of these things in various threads in the past on Era, many pertaining to SpikeChunsoft and NISA. Kinda hard to track down all the most relevant ones for the current conversation.
And while not Japan related, plenty of neglect seems to have seeped over into other regions, largely due to severe understaffing according to Jason Schreier. None of the ire is really about getting on the platform so much as it is how are they able to succeed on the platform. It only reinforces that Sony puts tons, tons more focus on big games and failing to support smaller developers imo. I also remember the threads on Era for these articles as well, and we got lots of graphs from indies showing how little they're selling on PlayStation compared to the competition.
Sony Draws the Ire of Indie Video Game Makers
Hi everyone, it’s Jason.The video-game industry has a new villain of the week: Sony Corp.’s PlayStation platform.
www.bloomberg.com
PlayStation Is Hard To Work With, Devs Say
While Microsoft and Nintendo are far from perfect, Sony makes their lives most difficult
kotaku.com
EDIT: made a mistake. It's 4am my time so I'm a bit tired lol.
It was Greenwood Corporation, the parent company that announced dissolution on March 31st, 2019. Their business is development and software distribution on PC. A Small corporation from what I can glean from Wikipedia Japan. But this did leave Light with few options but did eventually find a partner to distribute the final episode of Silverio Trinity. But after that they went dark until around 2 months ago when they announced they'd be coming back.
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I read that post @Nanashrew and the only word that comes to mind is “yikes”.
Xbox and Sony not taking Nintendo seriously is something that will change, imo. Switch will do huge numbers and this time is not only the hyper casual market. There are a lot of core gamers and core games are selling better and better on the platform.
Sony and Microsoft try to copy Wii's success. So taking Nintendo seriously in Wii/Ds era indeed. The term casual market it´s wrong, because of bad connotations, better is expanded market ( expanded market count´s former games and new gamers)
From Nintendo's last financial report and the known first party million sellers we can extrapolate that they had 51% third party sales.
Was Xbox "eliminated" from the japanese market?
If not, PlayStation won't risk to be "eliminated".
The idea is that Nintendo should leverage its current advantageous position to plan in advance (it takes years to develop game software) for a long term marginalization of PlayStation in Japan.
I posted it in the other thread but I feel it's also relevant here, right now PS ecosystem is heading for at least 50% decline YoY.
It would take a massive reinvestment by Sony into Japan in terms of both 1st Party games and 3rd Party relationship to turn things around long term.
PlayStation Ecosystem Top 50 Famitsu 2021(Unofficial Ranking):
TOTAL PS4: 1.723.424 (81.4%)
TOTAL PS5: 393.984 (18.6%)
I don't think physical sales across the Top 50 for the PS4/PS5 are very likely to surpass 2.5 million, nothing much releasing until the end of the year. Last year just across the Top 37 titles on the PS4 that made the Famitsu Top 100, the PS Ecosystem managed over 4.97 million.
Top 10 Publishers:
I guess the biggest story is how badly Western Publishers are performing comparatively to Japanese ones, as Tales of Arise, Resident Evil: Village, Lost Judgement and Nier Replicant all achieved far better results, when taking into context the current tough environment for PS exclusives, while most Western games that saw huge drop in sales in some cases over 50% YoY.
Other than that Sony basically left 2021 barren due to delays, so at least for 1st party titles 2022 is shaping up much better for the ecosystem.
Issue is that the performance we are seeing is far from the worse to come, as discussed in the other thread "The reasons and consequences of the decline of Playstation in Japan" with the current performance of third party games are Japanese Third Parties confident in green lighting a huge HD game that will come out in three years exclusively to the PS5? Unless you have some kinda of assurance in terms of either marketing or a big paycheck from Sony, it's a huge risk for any Japanese third party.
It would take a massive reinvestment by Sony into Japan in terms of both 1st Party games and 3rd Party relationship to turn things around long term.
PlayStation Ecosystem Top 50 Famitsu 2021(Unofficial Ranking):
- [PS4] Tales of Arise (Bandai Namco) - 213.474
- [PS4] Resident Evil Village (Capcom) - 191.983
- [PS4] NieR Replicant (Square Enix) - 158.265
- [PS4] Lost Judgment (Sega) - 151.039
- PS4] Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba (Aniplex) - 131.272
- [PS4] Tsukihime (Aniplex) - 80.042
- [PS4] Super Robot Wars 30 (Bandai Namco) - 74.036
- [PS5] Resident Evil Village (Capcom) - 72.761
- [PS4] Samurai Warriors 5 (Koei Tecmo) - 72.727
- [PS4] The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Dark (Nihon Falcom) - 60.435
- [PS5] Tales of Arise (Bandai Namco) - 60.106
- [PS4] Judgment [New Price Edition] (Sega) - 53.086
- [PS4] Far Cry 6 (Ubisoft) - 51.764
- [PS4] Call of Duty: Vanguard (Sony) - 45.195
- [PS4] FIFA 22 (Electronic Arts) - 45.058
- [PS5] Lost Judgment (Sega) - 36.584
- [PS4] Scarlet Nexus(Bandai Namco) - 31.665
- [PS5] Final Fantasy VII Remake Intergrade (Square Enix) - 30.984
- [PS4] Biomutant (THQ Nordic) - 30.292
- [PS4] Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water (Koei Tecmo) - 28.322
- [PS5] Judgement: Remastered [New Price Edition] (Sega) - 26.292
- [PS4] Battlefield 2042 (Electronic Arts) - 25.268
- [PS4] Back 4 Blood (Warner) - 25.173
- [PS4] Little Nightmares II (Bandai Namco) - 24.968
- [PS5] Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba (Aniplex) - 24.727
- [PS5] Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart (Sony) - 24.385
- [PS5] Battlefield 2042 (Electronic Arts) - 21.637
- [PS5] Call of Duty: Black Ops - Cold War (Sony) - 20.995
- [PS5] Far Cry 6 (Ubisoft) - 20.085
- [PS4] Neptunia x Senran Kagura: Ninja Wars (Compile Heart) – 18.789
- [PS4] Disgaea 6 (Nippon Ichi) - 18.289
- [PS5] Ghost of Tsushima - Director's Cut (Sony) - 17.271
- [PS4] Blue Reflection: Second Light (Koei Tecmo) - 16.701
- [PS4] Call of Duty: Black Ops - Cold War (Sony) - 16.454
- [PS4] Dragon Quest XI S (Square Enix) - 16.352
- [PS4] Sakuna: Of Rice and Ruin (Marvelous) - 16.235
- [PS5] Call of Duty: Vanguard (Sony) - 16.224
- [PS4] Ninja Gaiden: Master Collection (Koei Tecmo) - 14.483
- [PS4] NieR: Automata - GotY Edition (Square Enix) - 13.712
- [PS4] Guilty Gear - Strive (Arc System) - 13.574
- [PS4] Winning Post 9 2021 (Koei Tecmo) - 13.221
- [PS5] Scarlet Nexus (Bandai Namco) - 12.785
- [PS4] Dragon Quest X: Heavenly Heroes Online (Square Enix) - 11.791
- [PS4] The Legend of Nayuta: Boundless Trails (Nihon Falcom) - 11.230
- [PS4] The Quintessential Quintuplets (5pb.) - 10.378
- [PS4] Utawarerumono: ZAN 2 (Aqua Plus) - 10.241
- [PS4] Nioh 2 - Complete Edition (Koei Tecmo) - 9.969
- [PS4] NEO: The World Ends With You (Square Enix) - 9.248
- [PS5] Returnal (Sony) - 9.148
- [PS4] R-Type Final 2 (Granzella) - 8.693
TOTAL PS4: 1.723.424 (81.4%)
TOTAL PS5: 393.984 (18.6%)
I don't think physical sales across the Top 50 for the PS4/PS5 are very likely to surpass 2.5 million, nothing much releasing until the end of the year. Last year just across the Top 37 titles on the PS4 that made the Famitsu Top 100, the PS Ecosystem managed over 4.97 million.
Top 10 Publishers:
- Bandai Namco - 417.034 (19.7%)
- Sega - 267.001 (12.6%)
- Capcom - 264.744 (12.5%)
- Square Enix - 240.352 (11.3%)
- Aniplex - 236.041 (11.1%)
- Koei Tecmo - 155.423 (7.3%)
- Other - 151.664 (7.2%)
- Sony - 149.672 (7.1%)
- Electronic Arts - 91.963 (4.3%)
- Ubisoft - 71.849 (3.4%)
- Nihon Falcom - 71.665 (3.4%)
I guess the biggest story is how badly Western Publishers are performing comparatively to Japanese ones, as Tales of Arise, Resident Evil: Village, Lost Judgement and Nier Replicant all achieved far better results, when taking into context the current tough environment for PS exclusives, while most Western games that saw huge drop in sales in some cases over 50% YoY.
Other than that Sony basically left 2021 barren due to delays, so at least for 1st party titles 2022 is shaping up much better for the ecosystem.
Issue is that the performance we are seeing is far from the worse to come, as discussed in the other thread "The reasons and consequences of the decline of Playstation in Japan" with the current performance of third party games are Japanese Third Parties confident in green lighting a huge HD game that will come out in three years exclusively to the PS5? Unless you have some kinda of assurance in terms of either marketing or a big paycheck from Sony, it's a huge risk for any Japanese third party.
You're referring only to titles that are to be sold in Japan, correct? Yes, any third party that is making software exclusively for Sony that is not targeting a global audience better be getting a big paycheck from Sony or they are complete fools. It's no surprise that Mages for instance has released various anime-tied visual novels (like the Quintessential Quintuplets game) on both PS4 and Switch. That's basically the only kind of games being made that don't get an international release.
When you start considering a global audience your argument completely falls apart when you see the performance of titles like Resident Evil Village and Tales of Arise in terms of global sales. That's why I think you're only referring to games that will be sold in Japan for the above quote.
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I believe its a big risk even if you are targeting a global audience,
We currently don't know what production capacity would look like for the PS5 in 2022, but with PS4 production scaled way down and Sony still not being able to match the pace of the PS4 launch aligned I wouldn't be taking such a gamble right now without a great incentive from Sony. If they can't scale up production fast enough they are in a difficult position to match their partners expectations in terms of sales targets which are likely forecasted well in advanced and known to their closest partners.
Can anyone provide insight into the sell-through of the PS3/PS Vita during 2014, 2015 and 2016 on a Global Scale, I know PS Vita didn't amount to much during those three years outside of Japan but that's also something to consider when comparing the situation right now to the prior generational transition.
PS3 HW Sales Japan Famitsu
2014 - 445.154
2015 - 193.790
2016 - 47.738
PSV HW Sales Japan Famitsu
2014 - 1.168.570
2015 - 1.069.471
2016 - 849.669
PS4 HW Sales Japan Famitsu
2020 - 556.665
2021 - 103.646
I'm talking about PS Exclusives, Resident Evil Village & Tales of Arise also had X1/XS & PC versions which definitely helped - Sony is being squeezed on two sides at a global level, when talking about exclusives I'm more focused on games like FFXVI which doesn't even have a PC version confirmed.
Bamco talks about Japan like it has a terminal illness and look westward.
Sega is actively making changes internally to reverse their fortunes in Japan.
Capcom is finally doing work in Japan by diversifying their output.
Squeenix can't be bothered with Japan because their MMOs subsidize their poor business decisions.
That's a bit too binary to be fair. Not every game will be a Resident Evil, or even a Tales of Arise. There are plenty of games that get international releases where Japan still makes up a significant portion of sales and can't be overlooked.
I know is not bad, but people in the industry ( devs and such) consider it as so. There's no guarantee that they will come back. It happened with the Wii U. But Switch is gathering crowds from everywhere.
Your post reads more like a way to get back at Microsoft for buying Bethesda than do something that would significantly help PS in Japan. For one, PC gaming remains very niche over there, so Japanese publishers releasing PC versions will not make a noticeable dent in PS5 sales.
Second, buying Square as a move against PC would be pretty awkward, considering their biggest moneymaker is an MMO with a massive PC audience.
Finally, what would buying Square change for the current situation in Japan? The vast majority of their flagship releases in Japan have been PS home console exclusives in all but name for the past two generations, and have declined massively from their peak on PS1 and PS2. Their currently known lineup of flagship titles offers more of the same content that did not reignite sales in Japan on PS3/PS4, and seems even more tailored to the West. Their one remaining blockbuster franchise in Japan is becoming 'Dragon Quest for Adults' and shifting to more action-based combat, which is yet another play to expand the series' reach overseas.
What's the point of buying Square to regain ground in Japan when they're more Western-focused than ever?
Hardware and Software sales from 2012 to 2018 in several countries
From the CESA report, sell-through data from 2012 to 2018 in many countries. Note: the following graphs are in the thousand units, that means you need to add three more zeros to read it correctly. 1 - United States of America (1018 billion yens) Hardware annual sales Software annual sales...
www.resetera.com
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They did try, but now I doubt Microsoft is interested as their own strategy is working quite well and I believe Sony has driven themselves to a tech corner, so their hybrid would need to be cutting edge and you won't get more cutting edge than an Orin based hybrid... which is what Nintendo will be releasing, most likely, next year, which is the same year Orin will be available to the market, thus I doubt they could be able to release something stronger or even comparable to it (as only Nvidia has DLSS, plus other perks). Sony will be fine though, just not in Japan (and I doubt a hybrid would help them much in Japan anyway, which they probably realize too, so they are just going to double down on their current strategy for now).
Ah! One of the big points to go with Playstation is that it easily ports to Xbox and PC. They all have the same architecture and the userbase in terms of expectations is very similar. Yeah, if Japanese third parties are ignoring PC and Xbox that also should mean they're getting a decent paycheck from Sony because the price to port to those systems is minimal. Hell, Sony doesn't even ignore PC anymore for some of their titles.
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The hybrid nature is more disruptive than motion controls for Sony and Microsoft paths. So I agree, Sony and Microsoft don´t follow this trend now because go against their ethos, The hybrid nature needs to bring portable in the same level of stationary pipeline.
The other unintended consequence of PlayStation buying Square Enix in Japan is that it may spur Nintendo and Xbox to also push for major publisher acquisitions in the region. Hypothetically, how much would owning SE really help in Japan if it means they lose games from Capcom or Bandai Namco in response?
Hardware and Software sales from 2012 to 2018 in several countries
From the CESA report, sell-through data from 2012 to 2018 in many countries. Note: the following graphs are in the thousand units, that means you need to add three more zeros to read it correctly. 1 - United States of America (1018 billion yens) Hardware annual sales Software annual sales...
Thanks! sadly this doesn't seem to provide PS3 data for those years but we can at least look at just PSV, post PS4 launch
PSV HW Sales Japan
2014 - 1071K
2015 - 999K
2016 - 930K
PSV HW Sales USA
2014 - 320K
2015 - 280K
2016 - 60K
PSV HW Sales UK
2014 - 170K
2015 - 60K
2016 - 20K
PSV HW Sales France
2014 - 90K
2015 - 30K
2016 - 30K
PSV HW Sales Germany
2014 - 110K
2015 - 20K
2016 - 10K
PSV HW Sales Spain
2014 - 120K
2015 - 60K
2016 - 20K
PSV HW Sales Italy
2014 - 120K
2015 - 10K
2016 - 10K
PSV HW Sales Canada
2014 - 40K
2015 - 30K
2016 - 10K
PSV HW Sales Benelux
2014 - 30K
2015 - 10K
2016 - 10K
PSV HW Sales North Europe
2014 - 50K
2015 - 0K
2016 - 10K
PSV HW Global Known Total
2014 - 2121K
2015 - 1499K
2016 - 1110K
TOTAL: 4730K
We are talking a fairly big chunk of production capacity for the years after the PS4 launched comparing to the current generational transition. Right now Sony needs to basically focus all of it's production into the PS5 without supporting their legacy hardware, the PS4.
I don't know what their internal forecasts were back in 2019 as they were planning for the launch but everything changed with COVID. I personally think the aim for 2021 was above 18 million and over 24 million for 2022 with a higher production of PS4 but that was off the table when COVID hit and they had to ensure all productions lines they did have secured was focused on PS5.
Nintendo meanwhile already had scaled their production prior to COVID so even as they had some bottlenecks namely in Vietnam which was the worse hit this year, according to David Gibson - Vietnam stopped production for 2 months but production was back to normal in November.
Also earlier in the year Taiwan's Foxconn facilities in Vietnam were impacted and also Malaysia was also hit hard and that's where Sharp had some of Switch production, both were countries were used by Nintendo in order to diversify their supply chains, with Vietnam being the place where a lot of Switch Lite units are produced. Nintendo had started to diversify their supply chain due to the tariff wars between China and the US all the way back in mid-2019. While Malaysia was a fairly new addition to their supply chain with limited production capacity.
Digitimes: AirPods 3 production moved to China because of Vietnam COVID-19 surge
A new Digitimes report claims that the assembly of Apple's next generation of AirPods has been moved to China because of a surge in COVID-19 cases in Vietnam which is affecting suppliers.
www.imore.com
Covid-19 Surge in Malaysia Threatens to Prolong Global Chip Shortage
The country in Southeast Asia is cited as auto makers cut production, highlighting a little-known but critical link in the semiconductor supply chain.
www.wsj.com
The main difference is the maturity of the different players in the market, Nintendo's Switch hardware isn't directly competing with high-end PCs, PS5 or XS for a lot of its parts. Especially for crucial chips, it's mainly competing for additional production lines as it's own are disrupted by COVID but once things start to normalize in Vietnam and Malaysia they can easily scale production due to having contracts already secured. PS5/XS meanwhile are still in the process of scaling up their productions lines and diversifying their supply chains to meet demand while competing with a few other sectors for key "ingredients" of the hardware.
@Nocturnal If I remember right Switch SoC is also still build on 16nm process node. PS5 and Xbox Series use 7nm node and there is more competition for 7nm capacity.
First of all, it wouldn't make a shred of difference if the mentality of leadership at PlayStation remains as it is.... I was watching some videos by a Japanese girl who was reading forums and other media there to explain how people feel there about things. It seems that the censorship, lack of support for niche games and dislike for 'fan-service' is viewed almost as PlayStation attacking Japanese culture itself and I have heard the word 'racist' used a few times to describe Sony and PlayStation for their moves in Japan.
Sony and PlayStation need to realize that gaming is a place where art and business have to meet in the middle and acting like the church a few hundred years ago... painting leaves over breasts isn't real progress.
@fiendcode Capcom and Bandai Namco will not sell to MSFT. Mainly because Dimps, who make Street Fighter and Dragon Ball fighting games is owned as a partnership between Sony and Namco. Then Bandai Namco also depends a lot on licenses from Sony Aniplex and at Capcom the torch is being passed to the founders sons.
Even Square is a longshot for Sony.... I just think it would have an worldwide benefit to them across industries based on the strength and history of the IP's.
Legacy games like FFXIV can always continue on PC and Xbox, making money from Gamepass fees etc. That would be a huge benefit, when it pushes revenue higher immediately.
As I say above though, this would need a totally different attitude to the one Jim Ryan and the California based management have.... which places the longterm hardware sales and the platform secondary or tertiary to selling first party software (it seems to me).
All 1st party would need to be fully exclusive, they would need to fund more niche games aimed at the Japanese market and understand that PlayStation used to use software to attract a wealth of diverse people through their unique and niche titles and that was why they had more customers than their competitors historically.
There are many publishers catering to the main western audience and just following trends is neither intelligent or visionary. Following trends is for sheep.
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The only way I can see a fast solution for this is not Sony buying SQEX, it's Sony acquiring Nintendo, and that is not going to happen anytime soon. I also don't see the big Japan's publishers getting bought by anyone right now nor any interest from Sony to change the situation.
Nintendo will never sell to anyone, ever as far as I can see.
Sony have been really arrogant for some reason lately, again taking things for granted.... poor communications with their customers, gaffe after gaffe..... so maybe Sony have no desire to change things but it is (I believe) due to their own nearsightedness.
They only see immediate sales and are not considering the longterm outlook and potential or how their current actions are effecting how they are viewed and lower the ceiling on total gen sales.
It seems to me that that Jim and co are very focused on the P&L, costcutting, cheap expansion, increasing margins and have a lack of interest in qualitative aspects, as opposed to quantitative ones. Ironically we are on a forum that emphasizes numbers and that is not lost on me but we must not ignore other aspects.
It really frustrates me seeing them do things like get Psionix, Rocket League on PS first and then let Epic buy them....only to later try to build their own destruction derby game that completely flopped. They could have just bought Psionix... pure incompetent management.
Similar deal with them not making Sing Star and F1 anymore and Codemasters now doing F1.... they were easy money.
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I am quite sure they are focusing on quality though, specially of their own 1st party. They are doing what they think will work best, and all the good will people get from their quality releases in the west will ensure people will keep buying their consoles, just like with Nintendo. They seem content to be aiming to a certain market of male 16-40 or something like that though, which is different from Nintendo, which targets everyone and thus casts a wider net, and is also a contested market with Microsoft, but I am not seeing them dropping the ball in that aspect as of yet. If they do drop the ball at some point though, the balance of power would go to Microsoft again. In the end Japan loses though, because neither of them are trying to appeal to it's market, only Nintendo.
Now then, I am sure the situation in Japan is something not even they expected to see, maybe they are underestimating Nintendo again, but when their next console comes out, probably next year, it would be able to run quite a lot of the same multiplatform games PS5 runs just because they have to run on the Series S and it won't be that much of a stretch to make them run on the next Nintendo system after that. Furthermore, this means that many Japanese devs will see this as an opportunity to put their games on both PS5 and the Switch 4K to appeal to all markets, which would undoubtedly erode Sony's position more in Japan and a bit in the west, however I still think they'll have a strong gen with the games they'll put out and receive from 3rd parties, plus the timed exclusives they'll buy, like Final Fantasy (which I think will also jump on the Switch 4K to sell well everywhere and Japan). However, in the west, little will change in terms of 3rd party support, so they'll be fine. It's just a shame that they almost abandoned the Japanese market completely though, but it also forced many to break their loyalist mentality and become a bit more objective, which can benefit everyone.
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Well, there’s the problem right there. The info that’s been posted here gives enough indication that Sony is perfectly happy with their business as it is, for reasons that absolutely confound us.
On top of their treatment of indies and mid-tier developers, even the bigger guns are starting to go to war with Sony, because Sony wants to charge money for cross-play, with Gearbox drawing a line in the sand against them on this, after Epic had to literally force the issue of cross-play happening at all with Fortnite.
Sony insists it really likes crossplay now, honest
Playstation CEO says the number of titles supporting it "will continue to grow."
When the big publishers are the only ones they seemingly want to foster business with, not following the old axiom of “don’t shit where you eat” is even more confounding.
EDIT: And this is just the stuff we know about. But Sony using their over-inflated sense of ability to dictate what acceptable business practices are and to extract yet more money out of publishers has to give some Japanese publishers in particular a nostalgic feeling that brings them back to the late 80s and early 90s, be they big or small. I know I’m giving all of this stuff the side-eye.
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I dramatically prefer the Kaz, House, and Layden regime to Jim Ryan, but calling them incompetent is kind of laughable. Playstation is as strong as they've ever been and Microsoft is literally having to make 8 billion dollar acquistions just to try and keep up with them.
I'm pretty sure they are talking about the Japanese market, and no Playstation is not as strong as they've ever been in Japan.
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On a sad not about the discussion of Alundra that was brought up earlier. While the first game did honestly okay in Japan (I seem to recall from comments via Working Designs and such that it generally performed better overseas, but someone will need to obviously find a source on this and wouldn't know best place to look Did a quick search, and while it did "well", hard to say as the only sales data I was able to find was a reference to the North American release selling 100,000 units the first month, so who knows how well that held up afterwards), the second game bombed hard...
(Information from Game Data Library)
Data obviously doesn't take into account digital from both the International and Asian/Japanese store-fronts on the game for the PSN (PS3, PSP, Vita) and I don't even think Alundra 2 was released on PSN, unless I'm mistaken...
That said, I know the game had a huge tonal shift, but I looked into it a bit and I was NOT able to find any information outside of trailers and a Japanese demo for regular promotions of the game (commercials, posters, etc.), so I can't tell if Sony just sent the game out to die in Japan, or...?
(Information from Game Data Library)
Data obviously doesn't take into account digital from both the International and Asian/Japanese store-fronts on the game for the PSN (PS3, PSP, Vita) and I don't even think Alundra 2 was released on PSN, unless I'm mistaken...
That said, I know the game had a huge tonal shift, but I looked into it a bit and I was NOT able to find any information outside of trailers and a Japanese demo for regular promotions of the game (commercials, posters, etc.), so I can't tell if Sony just sent the game out to die in Japan, or...?
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It did around 100k lifetime in the US so presumably that first month of shipments were everything. Alundra 2 actually sold a little more here (around 110k) while the spiritual sequel on PS2, Dual Hearts, megabombed (around 20k).