Square Enix output strategy | Discussion thread.

[Kmds]

I understand the exasperation with the comment but the PS4 is a damn sight more capable than Switch.

You can make a lot of cuts to get it running acceptably on Switch. It's not a toaster. So to me this comment is basically code for "we like what anime games, Capcom and Sony 1st parties have" which is the ability to not rely on Japan as your path to success. But also having it in Xbox opens the door to some Game Pass money. Why this approach has to exclude Switch?

This game is going to be a test subject to show execs at SE that every single AA game has to be on Nintendo platforms as otherwise they’ll suffer a lot in sales.

Visions of Mana in every major market around the world, I expect to sell less debut week than Trials of Mana and then we’ll get a PR from Square saying they were shocked and disappointed at the sales.

If they truly cared, they would just wait for Switch 2 to release and release the game in launch year but alas they don’t

 

[GoldenFingers]

This game is going to be a test subject to show execs at SE that every single AA game has to be on Nintendo platforms as otherwise they’ll suffer a lot in sales.

Visions of Mana in every major market around the world, I expect to sell less debut week than Trials of Mana and then we’ll get a PR from Square saying they were shocked and disappointed at the sales.

If they truly cared, they would just wait for Switch 2 to release and release the game in launch year but alas they don’t

You think they should sit on titles for almost a year just so the launch can be simultaneous instead of staggered? Fucking what?

 

[Vena]

Stupid clownshow. These idiotic answers by moronic directors and producers will never stop. He's literally saying that games with expansive environments and a rich experience can't be made for Switch. It's like they've all gone mad.

And then the interviewer's response:
"That makes sense."

Absolutely brilliant!

This is a really unhelpful way to approach this and post about it; for one you're effectively attacking the messenger and for two it's thoughtless to the people doing this work (who are members of this forum).

Additionally, the way you present your point sounds like console warrior angry drivel. Present your point better, don't attack people, and try to be a little less explosive just because they don't support (a console).

 

[MarcoP90]

All of these answers full like bullshit by leaving out "we signed an NDA as part of getting information or dev kits for Switch 2 so we contractually cannot address your question directly".

Honestly, that's the way I've interpreted that tidbit from the interview, particularly due to the last sentence being "That's all we can say specifically, at this moment." No need to add that in your reply, otherwise.
More specifically, the potential line of thought I can see being behind this decision is something like "We release it first on these platforms with a specific set of advertising, while working on the version for this upcoming system for which we'll get renewed advertising and the allure of being among the first games to be available for the platform, so part of the launch period honeymoon. All while not spending resources in optimising the game below PS4-specs".

Now, I don't fully agree with this potential line of thought. I think this game should've seen a release on Switch alongside the other platforms on day one, with a Switch 2 version as well. This is just me trying to understand the thought process behind this potential direction.

And yet the secret of Mana remake never made it onto switch. Neither did the last Itadaki street game even though those were games released after the switch launch.

I wouldn't count the chickens before they hatch.

The Secret of Mana remake was probably deemed as a project not worthy of being released on Switch due to a combination of low sales, bad critical reception and the fact that they were already working on the Trials of Mana remake (a much more resource-intensive project compared to SoM) for the platform.

Now, for Itadaki Street...believe me when I say that it's the one Square-Enix's miss that mystifies me. But as a series, rather than the specific game you've mentioned. Square has supported the Switch so far with an important variety of titles and yet no entry in their board game series, which would be a more-than-perfect fit for the Switch. Still, I understand why they may've thought that a port of the PS4/PSV entry wasn't worthy; what I don't understand is why there has been no new entry altogether since 2017.

 

[fiendcode]

Just to remind everyone, Nintendo also threw Trials some decent marketing support. Seems like Xbox is stepping in for them on that front with Visions, let's see how it goes.

And speaking of Xbox, feels a little weird no GP deal happened for getting them up to speed on older Mana. Even just Trials I'd think would be worth looking at as it's very well regarded.

 

[Person]

If they truly cared, they would just wait for Switch 2 to release and release the game in launch year but alas they don’t

I won’t be upset if they hold it back for the Switch 2, but I have yet to see a convincing argument for why this is the only good path. “Caring” isn’t really a reason to hold a game back.

Best scenario would have been to release on Switch along everything else. Since that’s not happening, there’s no reason to hold anything back.

 

[Mory Dunz]

I hated that name. It always smacked me as try-hard. You're in the video game industry, everything you do needs creativity, you certainly aren't doing it charity and calling them 'units' just sounds so assembly line.

It's made worse when you release bland sludge like Forspoken and make Final Fantasy into yet another timing based hack n' slash dodge roll action game chasing after From Software and Capcom's success. Where's the creativity in that?

This is weirdly antagonistic and doesn't really make sense

 

[Danny]

I understand the exasperation with the comment but the PS4 is a damn sight more capable than Switch.

You can make a lot of cuts to get it running acceptably on Switch. It's not a toaster. So to me this comment is basically code for "we like what anime games, Capcom and Sony 1st parties have" which is the ability to not rely on Japan as your path to success. But also having it in Xbox opens the door to some Game Pass money. Why this approach has to exclude Switch?

Microsoft pays money to get their games. Nintendo doesn't. Not more complicated than that really.

I won’t be upset if they hold it back for the Switch 2, but I have yet to see a convincing argument for why this is the only good path. “Caring” isn’t really a reason to hold a game back.

Best scenario would have been to release on Switch along everything else. Since that’s not happening, there’s no reason to hold anything back.

Not a good path. But Square Enix and other big Japanese publishers are only putting out games like Octopath traveller and other less intensive titles on the Switch. They almost never make any downports of their PS tageting games to Switch. This is just the same with Bandai and Tales of arise for example.

 

[Vikadozs]

A shame, a have bought the last mana games on switch, now, i don't going to play ther next release.

 

[MegaXZero]

It’s a terrible line of thinking and incredibly short sighted. There’s a massive audience for Mana on switch, so missing that will have drastic effect on the addressable audience. Unless this game is a review breakout/viral (and even then Rebirth didn’t looked helped by that), then they are cutting themselves short.

Relying on a late port is also terrible strategy, won’t have the same level of marketing (which is currently in the hands of Xbox), there will be plenty of other games available during that time for switch 2, and if the game underperforms there’s no guarantee they will have budget left for a port given the company’s current issues.

 

[BoktaiFan]

Now, for Itadaki Street...believe me when I say that it's the one Square-Enix's miss that mystifies me. But as a series, rather than the specific game you've mentioned. Square has supported the Switch so far with an important variety of titles and yet no entry in their board game series, which would be a more-than-perfect fit for the Switch. Still, I understand why they may've thought that a port of the PS4/PSV entry wasn't worthy; what I don't understand is why there has been no new entry altogether since 2017.

Yeah this seems really weird considering the huge success of mario party and momotaro dentetsu. There is a huge audience and they just never made a new one in 7 years.....

Big missed opportunity.

 

[Koni]

Didn't see this posted but Visions of Mana's director was actually asked about the lack of a switch version in one of the previews

"That's definitely a tricky question to give a direct answer to. For Trials of Mana, the main thing was how we had to consider the future of the series, and how to cultivate a playerbase for future entries in the franchise. When we thought about the next, say, 10 years of the series' future we felt it was paramount to really solidify what we wanted "Mana" to be going forward. Some of those core tenets included a focus on expansive environments, and a richer experience overall. As a direct result, that's what informed the hardware we decided to develop for. That's all we can say specifically, at this moment."

Your standard "Our game is just too impressive for switch"

Visions of Mana Interview: Masaru Oyamada and designing a world touched by the Elemental Spirits | RPG Site

With a new entry in the series finally coming after over 15 years, we had the chance to discuss the series and its future with Mana Series Producer, Masaru Oyamada.

www.rpgsite.net

I know people have said this sentiment before, and I know that to others it may sound like cope, but that last sentence screams "We have a Switch 2 version in the works but we can't talk about it just yet". Otherwise, it doesn't make sense as to why would he even say that. He would've just omitted it.

 

[Undead Warrior]

All of these answers full like bullshit by leaving out "we signed an NDA as part of getting information or dev kits for Switch 2 so we contractually cannot address your question directly".

Yeah, this kinda screams to me "we really can't reveal why yet, buckle down" and the reason COULD be that it'll be on the next console and it just got delayed out of the initial projected launch.

 

[Hero]

If SE doesn't port the new Mana game to Switch 2 they truly are lost.

 

[MysticGon]

It’s a terrible line of thinking and incredibly short sighted. There’s a massive audience for Mana on switch, so missing that will have drastic effect on the addressable audience. Unless this game is a review breakout/viral (and even then Rebirth didn’t looked helped by that), then they are cutting themselves short.

Relying on a late port is also terrible strategy, won’t have the same level of marketing (which is currently in the hands of Xbox), there will be plenty of other games available during that time for switch 2, and if the game underperforms there’s no guarantee they will have budget left for a port given the company’s current issues.

You know which game also has Microsoft marketing but somehow did okay overall despite dying a death on the Japanese charts? Scarlet Nexus.

If the budget is kicking around the $25-$30 million and you add an extra 50% for typical Square bloat and mismanagement they can still see a small profit if it sells like that game. Especially if Microsoft is spending marketing dollars.

 

[Kei_Kurono_1985]

If SE doesn't port the new Mana game to Switch 2 they truly are lost.

Switch 2 is pure speculation at this point, even when we know Nintendo are developing with nVidia the new console. Whatever the reason Vision of Mana is skipping the most popular game console, not only in Japan, but in the world, is a terrible idea. The bulk of the potential buyers are in the Switch, and a Switch 2 didn't warranty the same sucess.

 

[Hero]

Switch 2 is pure speculation at this point, even when we know Nintendo are developing with nVidia the new console. Whatever the reason Vision of Mana is skipping the most popular game console, not only in Japan, but in the world, is a terrible idea. The bulk of the potential buyers are in the Switch, and a Switch 2 didn't warranty the same sucess.

I mean I totally agree with you it should be on Switch and should have been the target platform, but we're talking about ranges of bad decisions.

 

[Aostia82]

If SE doesn't port the new Mana game to Switch 2 they truly are lost.

and yet I repeat: it should have been (also) on the OG Switch - that HUGE install base, that HUGE software ratio, that HUGE love (at a ww level) for JRPG, that CLEAR openess of the Switch fanbase in buying also mid-tier/AA production (and not: despite their declaration it is evident that this is not a AAA production) won't necessarily be there on the Switch 2, and clearly not around launch

 

[Tokuiten]

The whole "don't worry, they're under NDA and cannot announce the Switch 2-version yet" argument makes no sense. A late-port to Switch 2 surely should happen, TOO. But there's nothing preventing SE from releasing it day 1 on Switch 1. Unless we want to assume that Nintendo forbade them from doing so.

 

[MechaJackie]

Also, a late port is still a late port, even if it comes out day one on the new system, would you rather pick up the newest Nintendo game on launch or a game that has already been out for more than a year elsewhere? They might as well be sabotaging the Switch 2 version to justify not supporting the platform later.

 

[Nokia]

Also, a late port is still a late port, even if it comes out day one on the new system, would you rather pick up the newest Nintendo game on launch or a game that has already been out for more than a year elsewhere? They might as well be sabotaging the Switch 2 version to justify not supporting the platform later.

By that logic no company should bother porting any title released before 2025 to Switch 2. If a game has good word of mouth and popularity any release of it on future platforms will result in good additional sales.

 

[MechaJackie]

By that logic no company should bother porting any title released before 2025 to Switch 2. If a game has good word of mouth and popularity any release of it on future platforms will result in good additional sales.

Not at all what I said in any way shape or form, also feel like your response is ignoring the context of the conversation. SE will launch a late port, act pikashook when it doesn't sell as well as a day one release, and swear off the platform. If you want to talk about not bothering porting titles then current SE is a great example of that.

 

[Nokia]

Not at all what I said in any way shape or form, also feel like your response is ignoring the context of the conversation. SE will launch a late port, act pikashook when it doesn't sell as well as a day one release, and swear off the platform. If you want to talk about not bothering porting titles then current SE is a great example of that.

What is with the doompost, what evidence would there be of SE expecting major sales for a future port of a game? Did they have major sales expectations for Nier:Automata on Switch? Or the Final Fantasy Switch ports? If VoM does poorly for a hypothetical Switch 2 release it would be the result of the game not being appealing enough, not because the JRPG fans on Switch just decided to not upgrade to the next platform.

 

[Joseki]

Also, a late port is still a late port, even if it comes out day one on the new system, would you rather pick up the newest Nintendo game on launch or a game that has already been out for more than a year elsewhere? They might as well be sabotaging the Switch 2 version to justify not supporting the platform later.

Late ports are only interesting when the system has few games.

Switch 2 will launch with actual 3rd party support from other developers and, most importantly, the launch line up will be whatever Nintendo and partners produce + more than 10.000 Switch games available physically and digitally via backwards compatibility.

Any developer/publisher thinking they can port they crusty old mid-tier game at full price and find the same success they found the first years of the Switch is up for a rude awakening.

 

[bladestrikex]

Didn't see this posted but Visions of Mana's director was actually asked about the lack of a switch version in one of the previews

"That's definitely a tricky question to give a direct answer to. For Trials of Mana, the main thing was how we had to consider the future of the series, and how to cultivate a playerbase for future entries in the franchise. When we thought about the next, say, 10 years of the series' future we felt it was paramount to really solidify what we wanted "Mana" to be going forward. Some of those core tenets included a focus on expansive environments, and a richer experience overall. As a direct result, that's what informed the hardware we decided to develop for. That's all we can say specifically, at this moment."

Your standard "Our game is just too impressive for switch"

Visions of Mana Interview: Masaru Oyamada and designing a world touched by the Elemental Spirits | RPG Site

With a new entry in the series finally coming after over 15 years, we had the chance to discuss the series and its future with Mana Series Producer, Masaru Oyamada.

www.rpgsite.net

This reads to me as "We can't say it's coming to Switch 2 right now but it's coming to Switch 2."

 

[MechaJackie]

What is with the doompost, what evidence would there be of SE expecting major sales for a future port of a game?

Expecting SE to continue to act like they have for the past couple of years is not doomposting.

If VoM does poorly for a hypothetical Switch 2 release it would be the result of the game not being appealing enough, not because the JRPG fans on Switch just decided to not upgrade to the next platform.

Don't know why you are telling me this, I don't even understand where "JRPG fans didn't upgrade from the Switch" comes from. The only ones that would find any of this information surprising is SE themselves.

 

[Nokia]

Expecting SE to continue to act like they have for the past couple of years is not doomposting.

Acting like what, using a single late port bombing to excuse refusal to support an entire platform? Has this even happened in the past with them?

Don't know why you are telling me this, I don't even understand where "JRPG fans didn't upgrade from the Switch" comes from. The only ones that would find any of this information surprising is SE themselves.

So you knew all this and decided to automatically assume SE won't know and will choose the worst case/nuclear option? Fine, if that's your wish.

 

[MechaJackie]

So you knew this and decided to automatically assume the worst case option will happen? Okay?

Yes, I'm assuming that SE will take the worst path, mostly because they haven't given me a good reason to believe otherwise. I have said the same before.
EDIT:

Fine, if that's your wish.

There's nothing that I wish for more than SE succeeding, I love Final Fantasy, I love Dragon Quest, I love Kingdom Hearts, I love TWEWY, these all were important parts of my life at different points, and SE, or rather the devs that work there, have shown that they can put out quality titles in those franchises still, if only their release strategy wasn't a blatant shitshow then the company would be at its peak IMO. However I'm not going to sit here and not call it how I see it, me "doomposting" or pretending that everything's well in SE Land won't change their situation.

 

[Person]

Also, a late port is still a late port, even if it comes out day one on the new system, would you rather pick up the newest Nintendo game on launch or a game that has already been out for more than a year elsewhere? They might as well be sabotaging the Switch 2 version to justify not supporting the platform later.

This honestly makes no sense if it was planned for a Switch 2 launch and the Switch date changed. Maybe a Switch 2 launched was never in the cards, but if we’re gonna consider it then this makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[fiendcode]

Switch 1 launched with two (technically three) late SE ports. I won't be surprised if Switch 2 is similar.

VOM is probably one of the better candidates too. FFVII Remake was the other rumor or maybe the mythical FFIX remake as a multiplat launch.

 

[Danny]

You know which game also has Microsoft marketing but somehow did okay overall despite dying a death on the Japanese charts? Scarlet Nexus.

If the budget is kicking around the $25-$30 million and you add an extra 50% for typical Square bloat and mismanagement they can still see a small profit if it sells like that game. Especially if Microsoft is spending marketing dollars.

No one in Xbox ecosystem cares about JRPG games. I mean Xbox is the only console where even big, mainline Final Fantasy games have bombed and sold only a few thousand copies, even long before gamepass was created. Those games sold so badly on Xbox it made no sense to even release JRPG games on Xbox before Microsoft started to pay publishers to make Xbox ports of their JRPG games.

Switch is on the other spectrum, its the ecosystem where JRPGs are most popular, but due to tech limitations it doesn't get every JRPG game on the market. Its a big tragedy for the JRPG genre that Xbox is getting JRPG games where there are no fans of the genre instead of Switch.

I mean imagine Visions of Mana getting an Xbox release when the Switch has tens of millions of Japanese users not being able to play the game because Xbox is a totally dead console in Japan.

and yet I repeat: it should have been (also) on the OG Switch - that HUGE install base, that HUGE software ratio, that HUGE love (at a ww level) for JRPG, that CLEAR openess of the Switch fanbase in buying also mid-tier/AA production (and not: despite their declaration it is evident that this is not a AAA production) won't necessarily be there on the Switch 2, and clearly not around launch

But its just a fact, big Japanese publishers almost never make a Switch downport of their PS targeting games. Look at examples such as Tales of Arise, Star Ocean: The divine force as well. Instead some of them make more low budget games targeting the Switch, like Octopath traveller.

 

[MegaXZero]

But its just a fact, big Japanese publishers almost never make a Switch downport of their PS targeting games. Look at examples such as Tales of Arise, Star Ocean: The divine force as well. Instead some of them make more low budget games targeting the Switch, like Octopath traveller.

I kinda doubt SO Divine force had a higher budget than Octopath 2. Also your former point is just not true. We had plenty of PS ports to switch.

 

[Fisico]

You know which game also has Microsoft marketing but somehow did okay overall despite dying a death on the Japanese charts? Scarlet Nexus.

Is there any clear indication on that? (They shared the 1M milestone that happened 10 months after release and when the game already had deep sales iirc, it went into gamepass not along after)
Everything his director/main creative said for the last few months is pointing towards the IP being put on ice as he's litterally been brought back within BNS to work on more Tales instead.

He clearly would like to work on further development for the game but received a big no since as far as cost/opportunity is concerned it wasn't deemed worth the investment for Bamco.
Maybe it did okay, but no okay enough that it would be worth it to work on it after its release seemingly, even though it wasn't an internal project in the first place (bulk of development made by TOSE) and only involved a few lead people from BNS.

The lack of a new Code Vein (that reached much bigger numbers (3M)) is more confusing to me, if that one isn't getting a sequel then there's 0 chance Scarlet Nexus ever will.

Although it's kinda off topic here so my bad.

 

[MechaJackie]

Is there any indication on that? (They shared the 1M milestone that happened 10 months after release and when the game already had deep sales iirc, it went into gamepass not along after)
Everything his director/main creative said for the last few months is pointing towards the IP being put on ice as he's litterally been brought back within BNS to work on more Tales instead.

He clearly would like to work on further development for the game but received a big no since as far as cost/opportunity is concerned it wasn't deemed worth the investment for Bamco.
Maybe it did okay, but no okay enough that it would be worth it to work on it after its release seemingly, even though it wasn't an internal project in the first place (bulk of development made by TOSE) and only involved a few lead people from BNS.

The lack of a new Code Vein (that reached much bigger numbers (3M)) is more confusing to me, if that one isn't getting a sequel then there's 0 chance Scarlet Nexus ever will.

Although it's kinda off topic here so my bad.

If only there was some other platform they could have released these games in but alas...

No one in Xbox ecosystem cares about JRPG games. I mean Xbox is the only console where even big, mainline Final Fantasy games have bombed and sold only a few thousand copies, even long before gamepass was created. Those games sold so badly on Xbox it made no sense to even release JRPG games on Xbox before Microsoft started to pay publishers to make Xbox ports of their JRPG games.

Switch is on the other spectrum, its the ecosystem where JRPGs are most popular, but due to tech limitations it doesn't get every JRPG game on the market. Its a big tragedy for the JRPG genre that Xbox is getting JRPG games where there are no fans of the genre instead of Switch.

I mean imagine Visions of Mana getting an Xbox release when the Switch has tens of millions of Japanese users not being able to play the game because Xbox is a totally dead console in Japan.

The SEGA Game Pass deal has kept me spoiled for choice

 

[Djehuty]

Didn't see this posted but Visions of Mana's director was actually asked about the lack of a switch version in one of the previews

"That's definitely a tricky question to give a direct answer to. For Trials of Mana, the main thing was how we had to consider the future of the series, and how to cultivate a playerbase for future entries in the franchise. When we thought about the next, say, 10 years of the series' future we felt it was paramount to really solidify what we wanted "Mana" to be going forward. Some of those core tenets included a focus on expansive environments, and a richer experience overall. As a direct result, that's what informed the hardware we decided to develop for. That's all we can say specifically, at this moment."

Your standard "Our game is just too impressive for switch"

Visions of Mana Interview: Masaru Oyamada and designing a world touched by the Elemental Spirits | RPG Site

With a new entry in the series finally coming after over 15 years, we had the chance to discuss the series and its future with Mana Series Producer, Masaru Oyamada.

www.rpgsite.net

Be prepared for tricky sales then.

By that logic no company should bother porting any title released before 2025 to Switch 2. If a game has good word of mouth and popularity any release of it on future platforms will result in good additional sales.

In this case had they held back on mama for a year.

They could have been in the postion bomberman R was with switch 1 for example

Get a lot of eyes and sales, after you play the big nitnendo game it’s the second or 3rd option and if the game is great the franchise just got a large fanbase Increase.

That did t happen with bomberman cause bomberman R 2 and the battle royal were stupid ideas but I digress.

They couldn’t likely because of an Xbox deal though, or the switch two got delayed and a last minute deal with Xbox happened.

Idk but it’s future doesn’t look promising.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Visions of Mana should have been on Switch 1 from the start. The Switch 2, even if it was out this year isn't going to have the install base to make a huge difference on a JRPG which will sell 70-80% of its lifetime sales in its first month.

If you want to realize the full potential it should be on the popular platform, not the unproven one.

Personally, I don't blame devs who just want to make games beyomd Switch specs at this point. But the business case is still that you should make a game that is accessible to a userbase who would clearly be interested.

 

[MysticGon]

No one in Xbox ecosystem cares about JRPG games. I mean Xbox is the only console where even big, mainline Final Fantasy games have bombed and sold only a few thousand copies, even long before gamepass was created. Those games sold so badly on Xbox it made no sense to even release JRPG games on Xbox before Microsoft started to pay publishers to make Xbox ports of their JRPG games.

Switch is on the other spectrum, its the ecosystem where JRPGs are most popular, but due to tech limitations it doesn't get every JRPG game on the market. Its a big tragedy for the JRPG genre that Xbox is getting JRPG games where there are no fans of the genre instead of Switch.

I mean imagine Visions of Mana getting an Xbox release when the Switch has tens of millions of Japanese users not being able to play the game because Xbox is a totally dead console in Japan.

You're right on almost every account accept one. Arguably the most important person on in the Xbox ecosystem cares very much about JRPGs.

Is there any clear indication on that? (They shared the 1M milestone that happened 10 months after release and when the game already had deep sales iirc, it went into gamepass not along after)
Everything his director/main creative said for the last few months is pointing towards the IP being put on ice as he's litterally been brought back within BNS to work on more Tales instead.

He clearly would like to work on further development for the game but received a big no since as far as cost/opportunity is concerned it wasn't deemed worth the investment for Bamco.
Maybe it did okay, but no okay enough that it would be worth it to work on it after its release seemingly, even though it wasn't an internal project in the first place (bulk of development made by TOSE) and only involved a few lead people from BNS.

The lack of a new Code Vein (that reached much bigger numbers (3M)) is more confusing to me, if that one isn't getting a sequel then there's 0 chance Scarlet Nexus ever will.

Although it's kinda off topic here so my bad.

Exclusive: 'Scarlet Nexus' devs share their vision of a "more mature" sequel

Director Kenji Anabuki and producer Keita Iizuka talk feedback from audiences and critics and possible future plans for the series.

www.inverse.com

You are right to question it and the above article shows that the spirit is willing.

Bandai Namco Expects Scarlet Nexus to Sell 1 Million Copies by March 2022; Financial Results Announced

Today Bandai Namco announced its financial results for the first quarter of the fiscal year, which ended on June 30, 2021.

twinfinite.net

During the presentation for investors, Scarlet Nexus was mentioned as having made a good start and Bandai Namco expects it to pass 1 million shipments by the end of the fiscal year in March 2022.


In the end, the company plans to develop it as a new IP also thanks to the relationship between the game and the animation produced by Sunrise.

It seems to have reached internal expectations with the 1 million PR announced in the middle of April but plans change, especially since Arise did so well.

Tales is a more important franchise to Bamco in terms of sales and history.

 

[Belthazar]

Visions of Mana is a weird case. It really would've done the lion's share of it's sales on Switch if it was planned to go there from the beginning, but the team is being quite ambitious with it from the Preview, so you can't blame them for trying to avoid having to optimize an Open World game or all things to the Switch. And not only Open World, but also a very fast paced game with character switching on the fly.

On a related note, a lot has also been said about Bandai Namco and Tales or Arise, a game that did better than anyone expected really. And I don't think it would've done nearly as well if not for the fidelity boost in comparison to previous entries. So yes, you could argue that a Tales Of game would've done well on the Switch as a JRPG, which is obviously true, but then again you could also argue that if it was planned with that ceiling in mind it might've ended up as a not so attractive product for the rest of the market and ending up selling less due to that.

So, if Visions is able to do the same in expanding the audience via and increased level of fidelity and scope, it may justify the decision of leaving the Switch behind. As with everything, we'll have to wait and see if the decision pays off... For Tales of Arise it did.

 

[ILikeFeet]

I'm not sure if I'd call Visions that "ambitious". comparatively, it's still on the budget side of SE. not to mention, we already have a game on Switch that does what you're describing (and having more characters on screen).

when you make a game with a higher floor in mind, it's only natural that going under the floor is difficult, regardless of what's actually going on. simply put, Visions isn't too ambitious for Switch, it's just not made with it in mind. I don't think we have to jump through hoops to justify why it's not coming.

as for the Tales comparison, we'll have to wait and see if SE markets Visions akin to how Bamco marketed Tales of Arise

 

[Belthazar]

I'm not sure if I'd call Visions that "ambitious". comparatively, it's still on the budget side of SE. not to mention, we already have a game on Switch that does what you're describing (and having more characters on screen).

when you make a game with a higher floor in mind, it's only natural that going under the floor is difficult, regardless of what's actually going on. simply put, Visions isn't too ambitious for Switch, it's just not made with it in mind. I don't think we have to jump through hoops to justify why it's not coming.

as for the Tales comparison, we'll have to wait and see if SE markets Visions akin to how Bamco marketed Tales of Arise

Which game is that?

 

[ILikeFeet]

Which game is that?

Xenoblade 3

also, Visions isn't open world, it's segmented into zones like Xenoblade is

 

[Shirke]

Also, not to be that guy, but Rebirth is underperforming sales wise (not that sales performance is related to what that guy said lol)

It’s selling about half of what Remake sold in the same timeframe and looks like it’ll have a weaker tail (prior to any PS+ like release)

Equities research reports, who are getting the data from the usual trackers.

Digging up Rebirth again, but according to Daniel Ahmad, data indicates that Rebirth sold only half of Remake what did in the same timeframe with a weaker tail.

 

[saicho]

I wonder when we will get that SE PR about FF7R2

 

[Tokuiten]

Only half, wow.

If we ever needed a leak, it's from the SE-Sony deal, how much was paid and what it included. Depending on that information, the whole discussion about FF7R2's sales performance would be a different one. Although one question wouldn't change: How much did it cost to make SE sacrifize the longterm well-being of the FF-franchise?

Stuff like this makes me look forward to games like "Monster Hunter Wilds" or "Elden Ring 2", and what'd happen if Metroid Prime 4 really gets titled "Metroid Prime 4". Direct sequels, especially with some sort of narrative focus or otherwise shared DNA, seem to be a harder sell. Makes Xenoblade 3's performance more impressive, really. Since GDL doesn't have those numbers, anyone got WW numbers for Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3? I don't remember the ME trilogy collapsing like that.

 

[Damage2]

Both Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 sold better that the first

 

[storres]

Both Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 sold better that the first

It looks like that won't be the case with Rebirth and the third entry.

 

[BoktaiFan]

So going by that tidbit and the ampere analysis FF7 Rebirth probably sold around 2-2.5 million.

 

[Joseki]

Yeah if they get data from the trackers no wonder Square did not do any PR, the game probably shipped 2.5m at launch and potentially has still to clear it.

 

[Jatinder5ingh]

Wouldn't it being half of 7R in the same timeframe also put it under 16's 3 million week 1 pretty significantly?

 

[Joseki]

The last 4 mainline Final Fantasy games all sold less than the previous entry:

FFXV (2016) - 5m (1d)
FF7R (2020) - 3.5m (3d)
FF16 (2023) - 3m (4d)
FF7R (2024) - <2.5m (2w)