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Ampere Analysis Console sell-through EoY 2022: PS5 30m, XSX|S 18.5m, NSW 119.5m

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Again, this is console sell through:
  • PS5 shipments are 32.1M
  • XBS shipment is likely 19.5-20M
  • Pretty much alligned with my estimates:
  • Assuming a similar US ratio of 49.9% as 2021, XBS would be 4M for NPD 2022, which is very unlikely as it would mean a December NPD 22 of ~500K. So its likely the US ratio has increased somewhat.
  • XBS is likely behind or on par XB1, which was per EA CEO or IDG -> ~20-21M shipment
  • PS5 behind PS4 shipments at the same point in time of 37.8M
 
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Well pretty much what I expected.
The gap will widen further this year now that PS5 is at full capacity on the stock side
 
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I expect the gap to further this year too. I’m guessing we’re on track for mostly the same result as last generation, honestly.
 
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Worth pointing out that this means their estimates for 2022 are PS5 13M, XBS 8M, Switch 19.8M. Sounds about right given what we know.

PS5 really suffering from lack of stock but that has fixed itself for 2023. Switch sales are fantastic for a console that had already sold 100M and is not the place to play third party games. Xbox continues to be about on par with XB1, boosted by GP but hampered by some stock issues and poor first party output.

I'd predict something like PS5 25M, XBS 10M and Switch 15M for 2023 if there's no new revisions or major price changes.
 
Sony I think will accelerate pretty fast now their stock issues are corrected. MS has a bit of a better year but still not exactly Nintendo levels of output which is where I think they are headed in terms of that Gamepass focus,
 
Worth pointing out that this means their estimates for 2022 are PS5 13M, XBS 8M, Switch 19.8M. Sounds about right given what we know.

PS5 really suffering from lack of stock but that has fixed itself for 2023. Switch sales are fantastic for a console that had already sold 100M and is not the place to play third party games. Xbox continues to be about on par with XB1, boosted by GP but hampered by some stock issues and poor first party output.

I'd predict something like PS5 25M, XBS 10M and Switch 15M for 2023 if there's no new revisions or major price changes.
The highest a Sony console has ever sold in a fiscal year is 22.5m, and that was PS2 over 20 years ago in 2002. PS4 peaked at 20 million. Only Nintendo consoles (DS, Wii and Switch) have ever sold that much in a year.
 
A full supplied U$499,90 Xbox Series X and U$399,90 Xbox Series X Digital could do very well this year.
Depends on if MS can get more desirable out this year. Stanfield needs to be a start.

PS5 racking up temp exclusives and some of their own stuff is gonna make it a monster this year
 
The highest a Sony console has ever sold in a fiscal year is 22.5m, and that was PS2 over 20 years ago in 2002. PS4 peaked at 20 million. Only Nintendo consoles (DS, Wii and Switch) have ever sold that much in a year.
Thanks for adding the extra context, this is indeed going to be a massive and record breaking year for Playstation.
What were PS4 and Xbone at by this point in their respective lifecycles?
PS4 was at 35.9M, XB1 was ~19.5-20M
 
Thanks for adding the extra context, this is indeed going to be a massive and record breaking year for Playstation.

PS4 was at 35.9M, XB1 was ~19.5-20M

Thanks. Will be interesting to see if PS5 can make up the lost ground... I suspect that it won't manage it myself though.
 
Thanks. Will be interesting to see if PS5 can make up the lost ground... I suspect that it won't manage it myself though.

Sony expects the PS5 to overtake the PS4 in 2024.

That said they also expect to break 19 million units this FY and I'm not so sure about that, but I will go with them on their 2024 projection. Just think they got started a little too late with the stock to make that FY 22 number.
 
So Ampere corroborates the 2m+ PS5 stock being in channel/retail at the end of last year, indicating normalized supply lines. Will be tough for Sony to reach their shipment targets this fiscal year without channel stuffing and potentially eating into next.

Also noteworthy, Ampere claims Series X supply constraints aren't resolved and don't expect them to be until CYQ2. And they expect Drake late 2024.
 
I don't have the numbers for 2022 but 2021 doesn't seem to be right? Didn't Xbox have a higher revenue than Nintendo in 2021 ($16.3B vs $15.3B)? Or do the percentages here represent something different?
 
I don't have the numbers for 2022 but 2021 doesn't seem to be right? Didn't Xbox have a higher revenue than Nintendo in 2021 ($16.3B vs $15.3B)? Or do the percentages here represent something different?
Company revenues given in IR don't show the entire marketplace. And they're also inconsistent between the 3 console makers. In a nutshell:

PS/Xbox: only includes royalties on physical 3rd party software/hardware revenues

Nintendo: only includes royalties on physical AND digital 3rd party software/hardware revenues
 
XBS shipments are not going to be only 1M above sell through. Sell through was terrible for the Series S.

PS5 had a 2M gap and sell through was high. I think Xbox should at least have a +2M gap assumed, and is probably why Microsoft expects hardware shipments to be down YOY. Retailers wouldn't be accepting more Series S until they sold through more of the holiday shipments.
 
Yeah, Sony shipping 6 million with 2 million already in channel sounds exagerated, but if they want channel stuffing retailers will probably buy everything since it was supply constrained for a long time.

Xbox Series was constantly ahead of One, now is a bit below it seems, holiday quarter was disappointing because Series S didn't was the hit Microsoft expected with deals and Series X stock was low.

2023 will be interesting with PS5 selling on par with demand and Xbox Series finally with a good first party lineup.
 
What's the estimates for how many sold in 2023 for XBS and PS5 you think, given current supply constraints (for Xbox) and relief (for Sony)? My bum guesstimate not using any sort of modeling is 25M XBS and 45M PS5.
 
XBS shipments are not going to be only 1M above sell through. Sell through was terrible for the Series S.

PS5 had a 2M gap and sell through was high. I think Xbox should at least have a +2M gap assumed, and is probably why Microsoft expects hardware shipments to be down YOY. Retailers wouldn't be accepting more Series S until they sold through more of the holiday shipments.
Yes, 18.5m sold through likely indicates 20.5+ shipped given the widespread ready Series S supplies. Maybe 20.5m as an absolute floor but below that becomes unrealistic given how the supply channel works (2-3m is healthy).
 
Yes, 18.5m sold through likely indicates 20.5+ shipped given the widespread ready Series S supplies. Maybe 20.5m as an absolute floor but below that becomes unrealistic given how the supply channel works (2-3m is healthy).

Based on PS5 I would say 21.5m is the floor. Series S underperformed in Q4.
 
Seems to further confirm the two million PS5 in retail supply. I do wonder how Sony is planning to hit it's big target without some ridiculous channel stuffing with these numbers.

Series S is also probably sitting around in abundant supply for MS.
 
Xbox needs Starfield to be a huge success.
I am more than happy with the console. I think that Xbow owners are pleased with the console, but there is not much appeal to the general public.
 
Xbox needs Starfield to be a huge success.
I am more than happy with the console. I think that Xbow owners are pleased with the console, but there is not much appeal to the general public.
They’re so slow when it comes to reacting imo. The console is great, but their exclusive software output is underwhelming.

I guess this really is going to be a long generation. That’s the only way I can make it make sense lol.
 
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They’re so slow when it comes to reacting imo. The console is great, but their exclusive software output is underwhelming.

I guess this really is going to be a long generation. That’s the only way I can make it make sense lol.

The cost and development time of games nowadays makes fast reactions entirely impractical and generally impossible.

Services they can move on quickly, hence GamePass.
 
With these results for Worldwide hardware, Xbox Series sales in december were very low in the US: 800k at the best (and then 4,3M for yearly sales)

More than 800k give a too big drop over 2021 for Europe+ROTW and we known that Europe outside UK/Germany was flat and that UK was 0,1M down.
 
With these results for Worldwide hardware, Xbox Series sales in december were very low in the US: 800k at the best (and then 4,3M for yearly sales)

More than 800k give a too big drop over 2021 for Europe+ROTW and we known that Europe outside UK/Germany was flat and that UK was 0,1M down.
How much Xbox did in December 2021 in the US?
 
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Very interesting data. Based on sales numbers for 2023 so far, I expect PS5 to really start to take off now that supply has been fixed
 
I'd predict something like PS5 25M, XBS 10M and Switch 15M for 2023 if there's no new revisions or major price changes.
I know most people will doubt your PS5 prediction, but I think in the end you'll be right.

My predictions for sell through would be
something like:

PS5: 25M
XBS: 11M
NSW: 14M

And yes like many people have already predicted, I also expect PS5 to widen the gap this year.
 
I know most people will doubt your PS5 prediction, but I think in the end you'll be right.

My predictions for sell through would be
something like:

PS5: 25M
XBS: 11M
NSW: 14M

And yes like many people have already predicted, I also expect PS5 to widen the gap this year.
I was also just rounding to the nearest 5M for this one, its too early to be any more precise. One thing I would definitely stick my neck out for is a new record calendar year for Playstation though, that seems like a done deal, although if Spidey 2 gets delayed it may be close.
 
PS5 2021: ~12.5M
US 2021: 4.3M (34%)
ROTW: ~8.2M (66%)

XBS 2021: ~7.7M
US 2021: 3.7M (48%)
ROTW: ~4.0M (52%)

PS5 2022: ~13M
XBS 2022: ~8M

US share for 2022 is going to be much bigger than 2021 for both platforms. This is what I estimate for NPD 2022

PS5: ~5.5M - 5.6M
XBS: ~4.5M - 4.6M

Meaning ROTW

PS5: ~7.4M - ~7.5M
XBS: ~3.4M - ~3.5M

So basically, the only reason US sales were so high last year was because of heavy prioritization by both Sony and Microsoft.

My predictions for 2023 are 20M PS5 and 10M XBS.
 
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Sony expects the PS5 to overtake the PS4 in 2024.

That said they also expect to break 19 million units this FY and I'm not so sure about that, but I will go with them on their 2024 projection. Just think they got started a little too late with the stock to make that FY 22 number.

Which points to that Spidey 2 will be ready for holidays.

XBS shipments are not going to be only 1M above sell through. Sell through was terrible for the Series S.

PS5 had a 2M gap and sell through was high. I think Xbox should at least have a +2M gap assumed, and is probably why Microsoft expects hardware shipments to be down YOY. Retailers wouldn't be accepting more Series S until they sold through more of the holiday shipments.

So, you missed ( overestimated) shipments by +2 million

 
So, you missed ( overestimated) shipments by +2 million


Nah, I said +2M as a massive low-ball.

XBS being anywhere between 3-4M unsold worldwide would be reasonable giving the bad the Series S sell through.

XB1 also would've had a similar ~3M unsold at the end of 2015, and XB1 sell through was actually good.
 
24M PS5
9M XBS
14M NSW
Nah, I said +2M as a massive low-ball.

XBS being anywhere between 3-4M unsold worldwide would be reasonable giving the bad the Series S sell through.

XB1 also would've had a similar ~3M unsold at the end of 2015, and XB1 sell through was actually good.

I don't see 2-3M XBS being in supply chains, more than whats likely their entire Q4 sell through, as reasonable.
 
8 million for the year with a poor first party lineup and underperforming in the holidays ended up being a decent year for Xbox, honestly better than deserved.

That was in part due to strong H1 shipments, but with Starfield and other games, plus better supply of Series X, definetly sales should grow in 2023 despite a slow start.
 
I don't see 2-3M XBS being in supply chains, more than whats likely their entire Q4 sell through, as reasonable.
I think I've gone over this before but 2M unsold is actually fairly reasonable for a console that has proper supply/demand control, and Microsoft is notorious for over shipping in the holiday quarter.

Just a quick comparison, PS4 had 1.8M unsold after 2015 and that was properly supplied. PS5 had 2.1M unsold.

Series S sell through was bad, not shipments. It's impossible there's less than 2M unsold XBS. Next quarter's Xbox result are going to be awful because of that.
 
Nah, I said +2M as a massive low-ball.

XBS being anywhere between 3-4M unsold worldwide would be reasonable giving the bad the Series S sell through.

XB1 also would've had a similar ~3M unsold at the end of 2015, and XB1 sell through was actually good.

I really don't believe there are +3 million unsold Xboxes somewhere WW. That means MS are manufacturing way more consoles than Sony, which isn't the case
 
I really don't believe there are +3 million unsold Xboxes somewhere WW. That means MS are manufacturing way more consoles than Sony, which isn't the case
No that wouldn't, because Xbox shipments were far less than PS5.

Sell through rates are not equal between Xbox and PS5.
 
3m is ready supply. Ampere estimates that's what Nintendo has in channel and they're a conservative shipper historically (and also in fewer markets globally than PS/Xbox).

2m for PS5 in channel is still "tight". If XB has just 1m in channel it'd be constrained in some markets and we know that's not the case for the S model. Quite the opposite, there's an abundance of them in the Americas, Europe and Asia.
 
No that wouldn't, because Xbox shipments were far less than PS5.

Sell through rates are not equal between Xbox and PS5.

Your shipments are pointing out then that MS is producing consoles at same rate as Sony PS5s despite sell through rates aren't equall
 
Your shipments are pointing out then that MS is producing consoles at same rate as Sony PS5s despite sell through rates aren't equall
No?

Xbox already had more units unsold than PS5 to begin with. I think it's fairly agreeable that Series S had more units on shelves at any given time over PS5 before Q4 2022 to begin with. It's only with Q4 did Sony ship so much that they now had a 2M gap between sold through and shipments.

Xbox had been at that level already before holiday shipments and low holiday sell through.

This quarter, I ship 8M units of Product A
This quarter, You ship 4M units of Product B

This quarter, Product A sells through 6M to consumers
This quarter, Product B sells through 2M to consumers

Both have 2M unsold.

Last quarter, Product A shipped 3M and sold through 2.5M
Last quarter, Product B shipped 2M and sold through 1M.

Both quarters combined, Product A shipped 11M units and sold through 8.5M, leaving 2.5M unsold.

Both quarters combined, Product B shipped 6M units and sold through 3M, leaving 3M unsold.

What does this have to do with production? It's entirely down to sell through rates.
 
Going with 24M PS5s and 10M Xbox for the next fiscal year. I think Sony will break their record for most shipped in a year this time around
 
For those who made predictions I have made a Thread here:

You can repost your prediction here:

 
3m is ready supply. Ampere estimates that's what Nintendo has in channel and they're a conservative shipper historically (and also in fewer markets globally than PS/Xbox).

2m for PS5 in channel is still "tight". If XB has just 1m in channel it'd be constrained in some markets and we know that's not the case for the S model. Quite the opposite, there's an abundance of them in the Americas, Europe and Asia.
I’d say 3 million is a bit stuffed (assuming this is accurate). Nintendo said this past quarter that sellthrough did not meet their projections and was the reason for the decrease in shipment target.
 
The cost and development time of games nowadays makes fast reactions entirely impractical and generally impossible.

Services they can move on quickly, hence GamePass.
Understandable, but that’s why I always say investing in “smaller” games is a must going forward. You don’t want to be in a constant situation where your main competitor(s) can react a lot faster to market variances than you can.

The one good thing I can say is Microsoft is thinking more long-term, but they need to get their messaging and identity right. They tend to get overlooked in my circle.
 
No?

Xbox already had more units unsold than PS5 to begin with. I think it's fairly agreeable that Series S had more units on shelves at any given time over PS5 before Q4 2022 to begin with. It's only with Q4 did Sony ship so much that they now had a 2M gap between sold through and shipments.

Xbox had been at that level already before holiday shipments and low holiday sell through.

This quarter, I ship 8M units of Product A
This quarter, You ship 4M units of Product B

This quarter, Product A sells through 6M to consumers
This quarter, Product B sells through 2M to consumers

Both have 2M unsold.

Last quarter, Product A shipped 3M and sold through 2.5M
Last quarter, Product B shipped 2M and sold through 1M.

Both quarters combined, Product A shipped 11M units and sold through 8.5M, leaving 2.5M unsold.

Both quarters combined, Product B shipped 6M units and sold through 3M, leaving 3M unsold.

What does this have to do with production? It's entirely down to sell through rates.

But 18.5 mil. XS is sold through ( since Ampere is mentioning install-base), so, your estimated shipment were 4 million more than sold through number. So, 4 million sitting in warehouses and stores. That's highly overestimated. 21 mil. is max. IMO.
 
No?

Xbox already had more units unsold than PS5 to begin with. I think it's fairly agreeable that Series S had more units on shelves at any given time over PS5 before Q4 2022 to begin with.

I'm confused about these estimates. I'm assuming they are reporting these figures since their last report in June? Which is also when Aqua started her leaked NPD numbers.

How many Xboxes sold in the UK from June 2022 until Jan 1st 2023? Did we ever get UK leaks?

Well, regardless 18M is pretty decent after a whole year without games. I guess gamepass held things together.
 
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Just thinking out loud, but wouldn’t Microsoft have been better off doing what Sony did by having one Disc Xbox Series X SKU and one Digital Edition Xbox Series X SKU?

Also unfortunately I don’t think Microsoft has done themselves any favours with their release schedule to push more consoles. I know the focus for them is Game Pass but you also need hardware moving faster to reach the number of subscribers they’re hoping for, even with Game Pass being available on PC.
 
Just thinking out loud, but wouldn’t Microsoft have been better off doing what Sony did by having one Disc Xbox Series X SKU and one Digital Edition Xbox Series X SKU?

Also unfortunately I don’t think Microsoft has done themselves any favours with their release schedule to push more consoles. I know the focus for them is Game Pass but you also need hardware moving faster to reach the number of subscribers they’re hoping for, even with Game Pass being available on PC.

I doubt it. If they can't get enough consoles made why would that change with a Xbox Series X without a disc slot? Everything else would be identical making things worse.

I would argue without the Xbox Series S they would have never sold this 18M. They would probably be worse off.
 
But 18.5 mil. XS is sold through ( since Ampere is mentioning install-base), so, your estimated shipment were 4 million more than sold through number. So, 4 million sitting in warehouses and stores. That's highly overestimated. 21 mil. is max. IMO.
So I'm going to say that's actually not at all unreasonable. In order to explain this, we will have to talk about Xbox One sales and shipments.

We already know Xbox One shipments were 5.1M as of March 2014. We know Xbox shipped 10.1M Xbox 360's and XB1 for the next 9 months.

Apr-Jun 2014: 1.1M
Jul-Sep 2014: 2.4M
Oct-Dec 2014: 6.6M

I've already gone over in this post how we can use hardware revenue for the quarter to find out generally where each Xbox is for units shipped. I've gone back recently and readjusted some of the calcs but in generally it's impossible for XB1 to be much more or much less than what I am going to provide. We know exactly how many total Xbox's were shipped, we know the hardware revenue checks out for only console sales, and we have a great idea on what each Xbox was selling for at the time.

As of now, I have XB1 making up 7.1M of that 10.1M.

Q2 2014: 0.4M
Q3 2014: 1.7M
Q4 2014: 5.0M

Again, we could argue that these aren't exactly correct, maybe off by 100K, but in general, you would need a compelling reason for why XB1 would be far below these numbers for any given quarter when we know what the total Xbox shipments are.

This would put XB1 shipments at 12.2M, but for arguments sake, lets throw that down to 12M. Sell through LTD for 2014 is any between 9.5M and 10.5M given what Ubisoft and Take Two said at the time. This would mean XB1 had anywhere between 1.5M and 2.5M unsold units at the end of 2014. PS4 had 1.7M for comparison.

The reason all of that is important is because we can very easily find XB1 2015 shipment LTD. Microsoft reported the following total Xbox shipments.

Jan-Mar 2015: 1.6M
Apr-Jun 2015: 1.4M

Specifically for Q1 2015, there is this quote

Xbox Platform revenue decreased $306 million or 24%, driven by a 20% decline in console volume and lower prices of Xbox One consoles compared to the prior year.
Microsoft specifies consoles volume is down, and Xbox One console price is down. This can mean two things

1. Both Xbox 360 and XB1 units are down YOY, Xbox 360 ASP was flat
2. Xbox 360 units are down YOY while price was flat, XB1 units are flat but price was down

The above two would only really be arguing over at most 200K shipments, either XB1 was 1.2M again (same as Q1 2014), or slightly down.

Unfortunately, Q2 doesn't have anything specific due to Microsoft only comparing full FY results. I think XB1 shipping about the same as Q1 makes sense, the only real decline would be from 360.

This would then mean XB1 shipped anywhere between 2M and 2.4M in the first half of 2015. LTD would then be 14M to 14.4M. Again, at this point we would only be arguing over a few 100K.

This is important now. The next two quarters of XB1 are going to be at least equal to what it shipped in 2014.

Q3 2015: Xbox hardware revenue decreased 17%, mainly due to lower volumes of Xbox 360 consoles sold.
Q4 2015: Xbox hardware revenue decreased 9%, mainly due to a decline in Xbox 360 console volume. Xbox One revenue decreased slightly, due to higher console volume, offset by lower prices of consoles sold.

At a low ball for Q3 2015, XB1 shipments are equal to 2014. Q4 2015 is unquestionably higher than Q4 2014.

Bare minimum, XB1 is at 20.7M, assuming the second half of 2015 was only equal to 2014, and using the low end estimates for the rest of 2015. Realistaclly, XB1 shipments are over 21M at the end of 2015.

XB1 sell through has been estimated to be ~19M at that same time. We are looking at well over 2M unsold units for XB1 at the end of 2015, and I estimate that it's closer to 2.7M.

This is what I have for XB1 shipments:

Q2 2015 LTD: 14.6M
Q3 2015: 1.7M
Q4 2015: 5.2M
2015 LTD: 21.7M

The reason I believe this is nearly accurate is due to what Microsoft says regarding FY shipments. FY 2016 (July 2015 to June 2016) unit volume was stated to be higher than FY 2015.

The reason this is important is because FY2015 (July 2014 to June 2015) is pretty much locked in at ~9M (all of the above explains this), meaning FY2016 is over 9M. The first two quarters of 2016 are not going to be up over 2015 due to revenue declines and nothing from Microsoft PR saying XB1 console volume improved, so at best Q1+Q2 2016 should be ~2M.

XB1 was at 5.1M as of March 2014
The math practically screams XB1 shipped 9M in FY 2015
FY 2016 is higher than FY2015 (9M), but we can subtract about 2M from the second of the FY (First half of 2016 calendar year) to get ~7M

5.1 + ~9 + ~7 = ~21.1M, but we're also missing Q2 2014, so anywhere between 400K to 600K.

All of this to get the point I've been trying to make. Microsoft has a history of over shipping in the holiday quarter. XB1 most likely had nearly 3M unsold units at the end of 2015, and that was a console that had very good sell through.

Now look at XBS. Up to September 2022, XBS had been outpacing XB1 LTD. Q4 2022, XBS sell through massively disappoints compared to XB1 Q4 2015.

I do not believe it's at all unreasonable to suggest that XBS and XB1 would have similar shipment performance in the Q4 2015 and Q4 2022 comparable, but XBS had worse sell through.

You can argue that maybe XB1 didn't have exactly 2.7M unsold units, it's 2.4M, or something, but as I've outlined above, the math and statements and known figures do not leave much wiggle room for XB1 shipment LTD up to June 2015, and thus December 2015. The point is that for a console that had similar shipment performance, sell through being worse would point to a +3M discrepancy in the sold through and shipment gap.

My XBS shipment estimate is at 22.2M. This Ampere sell through estimate would mean a gap of 3.7M
My XB1 shipment estimate is at 21.7M for 2015. Sell through estimates for 2015 would mean a gap of ~2.7M.

An additional million or so units unsold compared to XB1 in the same point of time when XBS had worse sell through than XB1 is what I'm suggesting.

Important edit: I forgot to readjust Q4 2022 estimates for XBS, I had it over my readjusted Q4 2021 estimate, when Q4 2022 is down YOY. I have Q4 2022 at 4.1M, thus a LTD of 22.2M
 
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