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Will Soul Hackers 2 sell more than Shin Megami Tensei V?

What will have better lifetime sales, SMTV or Soul Hackers 2?

  • Shin Megami Tensei V

    Votes: 165 67.6%
  • Soul Hackers 2

    Votes: 44 18.0%
  • Shin Megami Tensei V, but only if the rumoured PC/PS4 versions release

    Votes: 21 8.6%
  • Soul Hackers 2, but only if it gets a Switch port later

    Votes: 14 5.7%

  • Total voters
    244
  • Poll closed .
a 50 seconds trailer that shows and says nothing is really representative of this game western marketing so far. Playstation global twitter account ignored this game once again, by the way!

No Playstation marketing deal might hurt this game depending on how Atlus market it.



This was something WetWaffle on ERA pointed out, but yeah Persona 5’s first proper trailer they revealed by themselves outside of the first chairs teaser had much stronger hooks with the music, editing, tone, story, demonstrating gameplay etc.

Not to mention it was also almost three times as long. Maybe ad-time was too expensive for SGF, but echoing the opinion that this was one of their best time to get all these eyes watching interested instead of wondering what it was and skipping over, especially it came after 2 of Hoyoverse’s trailers that were longer.


This game is not going to have near the marketing budget of Persona. I'm expecting 500k -1M sales LTD so I wouldn't expect anime shorts, multiple long trailers etc.
 
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Suffice to say this is still me after that showing from SGF. If they don’t ramp it up or do better then I would say chances of it doing well are bleak.
 
Honestly feel like delay the game until next year would be the best move.

Atlus marketing is mediocre at best.
 
Yeah... even if I thought it couldve before, theres no way now. The marketing and engament is abysmal. Maybe word of mouth can save it if its really good? Wont be Persona 5 good though.
 
At this point I’m gonna say it. Even being on Switch day and date wouldn’t have made a difference. Maybe a few hundred thousand copies more sold, but the ultimate fate of the game wouldn’t have been different if it seems to be this fundamentally unappealing to the broader market.
 
At this point I’m gonna say it. Even being on Switch day and date wouldn’t have made a difference. Maybe a few hundred thousand copies more sold, but the ultimate fate of the game wouldn’t have been different if it seems to be this fundamentally unappealing to the broader market.

The Switch does have an audience that is receptive to A or BBB JRPGs, we see too many cases of those succeeding especially in markets outside Japan, which means it could be much more than this number.

Furthermore, for a game of this scale a few hundred thousand more would have mean being in the red or in the black. Given what it is, I don't see major difficulty in a port. Plus, a wider exposure helps build up brand for future exposure, even if the first game performs modestly, so these numbers matters for sure.

Your post kinda reads like "It if does well it doesn't need the Switch, if it does bad the Switch would not be able to save it" excuse I personally heard from JP developers before.

Anyways, the game can still surprise in sales. .
 
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The Switch does have an audience that is receptive to A or BBB JRPGs, we see too many cases of those succeeding especially in markets outside Japan, which means it could be much more than this number.

Furthermore, for a game of this scale a few hundred thousand more would have mean being in the red or in the black. Given what it is, I don't see major difficulty in a port. Plus, a wider exposure helps build up brand for future exposure, even if the first game performs modestly, so these numbers matters for sure.

Your post kinda reads like "It if does well it doesn't need the Switch, if it does back the Switch would be able to save it" excuse I personally heard from JP developers before.

Anyways, the game can still surprise in sales. .
That’s not my excuse at all, and I’ve been clear about how silly I find the game missing the biggest addressable market for JRPGs like this from the beginning. But some games are fundamentally unappealing and they don’t sell regardless of what system they’re on. Switch couldn’t make TMS sell. Switch couldn’t make NTWEWY sell. Some games just don’t sell because they intrinsically lack market appeal and value. This is seeming like that kind of a game. Nothing to do with whatever rationalizations certain Japanese developers come up with for their platform choices. The Switch isn’t a magic bullet that will make everything successful no matter what.
 
That’s not my excuse at all, and I’ve been clear about how silly I find the game missing the biggest addressable market for JRPGs like this from the beginning. But some games are fundamentally unappealing and they don’t sell regardless of what system they’re on. Switch couldn’t make TMS sell. Switch couldn’t make NTWEWY sell. Some games just don’t sell because they intrinsically lack market appeal and value. This is seeming like that kind of a game. Nothing to do with whatever rationalizations certain Japanese developers come up with for their platform choices. The Switch isn’t a magic bullet that will make everything successful no matter what.

Soul Hackers is much more IP-adjacent to SMT than TMS was. The big controversy behind TMS is that it was kinda not FE, and very not SMT. I wonder which game that featured SMT conventions only recently managed to double it's previous performance?? If anything, I can confirm the SMTV crowd will show up in force but they will be missing here this time.

As for NTWEWY, we all know SE treated it's release as an afterthought. This is not the the same for "I-only-market-one-game-at-a-time" Atlus, who proclaimed the hope SH becomes a pillar of the company.

In my view, the form of marketing they are doing now isn't too different from how SMTV is marketed, it just didn't start off strong unlike SMTV (who had Nintendo backing) despite being somewhat Sony-backed (SH2 shows up quite a bit in PS CMs). This results in different outcomes for the marketing.
 
Like, NTWEWY ltd is bad now, but could you imagine if it was a ps4 exclusive?
 
That’s not my excuse at all, and I’ve been clear about how silly I find the game missing the biggest addressable market for JRPGs like this from the beginning. But some games are fundamentally unappealing and they don’t sell regardless of what system they’re on. Switch couldn’t make TMS sell. Switch couldn’t make NTWEWY sell. Some games just don’t sell because they intrinsically lack market appeal and value. This is seeming like that kind of a game. Nothing to do with whatever rationalizations certain Japanese developers come up with for their platform choices. The Switch isn’t a magic bullet that will make everything successful no matter what.

Even if Switch is not magic bullet, it still will be the majority platform where those games will sells in japan for most of the case.

Like the very recent Yurukill. It sure bomba on switch there with 1k+ sales. But the sales on PS platform is even worse that it don't even enter top 30. So if we said, the game is just going to bomba anyway so we don't need Switch version is just a a strange way of seeing things.

U add Switch version so it will bomba less. Not giving up and said. Whats bomba will bomba so we will not make the best selling version.
 
At this point I’m gonna say it. Even being on Switch day and date wouldn’t have made a difference. Maybe a few hundred thousand copies more sold, but the ultimate fate of the game wouldn’t have been different if it seems to be this fundamentally unappealing to the broader market.
Thats quite a big difference though, especially if sold at somewhat close to the launch price point.
 
TMS was an oddball project that was a Wii U exclusive.

NTWEWY was given as much, or probably less, fanfare than Babylon's Fall and Chocobo GP.

Even so, using two outlying examples over so many years is more an argument in favour of how well these types of games have done on Switch (and 3DS) and shows how poor these decisions from certain publishers are.
 
Playstation and PC has more than enough JRPG fans to support a title like this. Persona sold 3M+ on PS4 alone and P4G sold 1M+ on PC. Its really up to Atlus on how they market their titles, espeically if they did not want to side with a platform on marketing.
 
Playstation and PC has more than enough JRPG fans to support a title like this. Persona sold 3M+ on PS4 alone and P4G sold 1M+ on PC. Its really up to Atlus on how they market their titles, espeically if they did not want to side with a platform on marketing.

Your argument here makes no sense.

The Switch+PC can also support million-seller JRPGs.

Many of those in this category are RPGs that are way smaller in scale compared to either Persona games (Persona 4 is a relatively large scale RPG for PS2 era, and Persona 5 is bigger scale than most million seller RPGs on Switch). This is also ignoring that Persona is a breakout series in general starting with P5, which also enhanced the sales of Persona 4's PC port. Thus is not something you can always count on for any game.

In fact, the type RPGs that do well on Switch are arguably fits closer to what Soul Hackers is...SH2 is essentially a mid-range RPG like the 2DHD games, Atelier, Bravely Default or Rune Factory. SH2 is by no means similar to things like Nier or Tales of Arise, much less mega efforts like Finak Fantasy.

If Atlus wants this IP to be a sustainable success...Why do they avoid the Switch? It makes no sense, other than perhaps for reasons beyond pure sales potential. Perhaps you know it well...

Finally, Sony IS supporting SH2, but it is in the form of television commercials and including it in general marketing (much like DQX Offline). Therefore, I don't see why you think the game isn't "taking sides".
 
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Your argument here makes no sense.

The Switch+PC can also support million-seller JRPGs.

Many of those in this category are RPGs that are way smaller in scale compared to either Persona games (Persona 4 is a relatively large scale RPG for PS2 era, and Persona 5 is bigger scale than most million seller RPGs on Switch). This is also ignoring that Persona is a breakout series in general starting with P5, which also enhanced the sales of Persona 4's PC port. Thus is not something you can always count on for any game.

In fact, the type RPGs that do well on Switch are arguably fits closer to what Soul Hackers is...SH2 is essentially a mid-range RPG like the 2DHD games, Atelier, Bravely Default or Rune Factory. SH2 is by no means similar to things like Nier or Tales of Arise, much less mega efforts like Finak Fantasy.

If Atlus wants this IP to be a sustainable success...Why do they avoid the Switch? It makes no sense, other than perhaps for reasons beyond pure sales potential. Perhaps you know it well...

Finally, Sony IS supporting SH2, but it is in the form of television commercials and including it in general marketing (much like DQX Offline). Therefore, I don't see why you think the game isn't "taking sides".

PS4/PC have supported plenty of JRPGs that sell 1M or in that ballpark. Its incorrect to act like this isn't the case and furthermore I would say Atlus are definitely attempting to attract Persona fans which are almost entirely on Playstation.

The point is: install base isn't the factor here. Adding SW will undoubtedly help but its not the be all end all.

Its the game itself, is it good, is it interesting JPRG fans and has it been marketed relatively well.

There are TV commercials for this game from PS? That is surprising, its not a big game. I haven't seen much activity from the PS Twitter account about it for instance.

Either way, small games like this are hard to call for me. We'll see how it performs globally once it releases.
 
I can't lie I take it as complete nonsense for anyone to even try say that Persona fans are completely on PlayStation. Like it's completely wrong. If Persona 5 was a NSW exclusive like it's a ps4 exclusive atm, it would've sold the same if not more as it would've sold more in Japan, United States and France (the 3 biggest markets for JRPGS and the Nintendo Switch). Every single Atlus franchise has its biggest fanbase on the switch except persona which is half Playstation/half Switch.

It's not fully visible to some as Atlus is proactively stopping this.
 
I can't lie I take it as complete nonsense for anyone to even try say that Persona fans are completely on PlayStation. Like it's completely wrong. If Persona 5 was a NSW exclusive like it's a ps4 exclusive atm, it would've sold the same if not more as it would've sold more in Japan, United States and France (the 3 biggest markets for JRPGS and the Nintendo Switch). Every single Atlus franchise has its biggest fanbase on the switch except persona which is half Playstation/half Switch.

It's not fully visible to some as Atlus is proactively stopping this.
Why would Persona have some kind of fanbase on Switch? Outside of some spinoffs, there are no mainline Persona games on Switch.

This is like saying that God of War would sell 20 million on Xbox just because Action Adventure games sell well on Xbox too
 
Why would Persona have some kind of fanbase on Switch? Outside of some spinoffs, there are no mainline Persona games on Switch.

This is like saying that God of War would sell 20 million on Xbox just because Action Adventure games sell well on Xbox too

I mean no offense, but we have to be a little bit deaf here to say there is no Persona fanbase outside PS platforms. It's not only that Switch userbase has been crying for 5 years straight to have a Persona port, P5S split, at least Japan, is very healthy considering that is a sequel for a game that didn't release on the Switch. Then we have the numbers for a P4G on PC.

The success of Persona isn't bound to PS platforms, instead I would say that the de facto PS exclusivity is preventing Persona to reach more success both domestically and globally.

As for SH2, now that can we see how the game looks, it's very easy to say that it won't be saved by the Switch, but that is telling half of the movie. It has been said before to extenuation, but it is because is true: Switch is a platform where this kind of games usually finds a lot of success. So dismissing Switch when is clear that skipping it is the worst choice makes no sense to me.

You really have to praise Atlus 5D chess moves: announce a japanese game for everything but the japanese market leader, then proceed to do japanese-only marketing. Well, I think maybe we would be telling another story if the game had a Switch version and Nintendo marketing. Which I'm sure is not something crazy, but you gotta have big boy games in big boy platforms.
 
I tend to agree, Switch day one wouldn't have saved SH2 based on what we're seeing with the game so far. It would've pushed sales farther than they're going to be but I still only see SH2 crawling to around a million best case lifetime.

SMTV has this one in the bag, it's not going to be close. It'll comfortably clear 1.5m on Switch alone once it starts getting deep price promotions and soar past 2m when it gets ports to PC and possibly other consoles. If Atlus handles discounts and ports right, I don't think 3m is outside the realm of possibility.

Why would Persona have some kind of fanbase on Switch? Outside of some spinoffs, there are no mainline Persona games on Switch.

This is like saying that God of War would sell 20 million on Xbox just because Action Adventure games sell well on Xbox too
Back in 2016/2017 you could've said this about Disgaea, Atelier, SaGa, Ys, etc, etc, but they all still sold amazingly well on Switch, usually leading on the platform at that. Being big in a genre generally does help immensely and Nintendo's done a lot to foster an audience for RPGs (JRPGs in particular) on their platform. Market wise Switch is basically the closest platform we've had to the golden PS1 era for JRPGs in the west, the genre's absolutely boomed on the system.
 
I think what interests me the most is seeing what are the total sales on XBOX, they port beg for just about every Atlus game but to my knowledge Atlus simply doesn't sell well on XBOX at all. So for as loud as a few people can be, noone else in that eco system seems to care one way or another to justify the port.
 
In the west, I have 0 doubt that if Persona 5 released now day date with both ps4 and switch. In the West, the Switch version would 100% outsell it. There's absolutely zero doubt in my mind because these types of games in the west are more wanted and associated with Switch than Playstation. The Persona-PlayStation affiliation would completely end automatically if it was on Switch and Atlus doesn't want that to happen so they don't do it on purpose in my opinion. Atlus would become a mainly Nintendo developer and again the higher-ups or the producers son't seem to want that for some reason.
 
In the west, I have 0 doubt that if Persona 5 released now day date with both ps4 and switch. In the West, the Switch version would 100% outsell it. There's absolutely zero doubt in my mind because these types of games in the west are more wanted and associated with Switch than Playstation. The Persona-PlayStation affiliation would completely end automatically if it was on Switch and Atlus doesn't want that to happen so they don't do it on purpose in my opinion. Atlus would become a mainly Nintendo developer and again the higher-ups or the producers son't seem to want that for some reason. I just don't get why? Persona 5/Royal could've easily sold about 10 million if it was on Switch and PC.
 
Well, we got Persona on Xbox announced, with Persona 5 Royal on Xbox One/Series coming this October. Will it change Soul Hackers interest for Xbox owners? Who knows.
 
Well, we got Persona on Xbox announced, with Persona 5 Royal on Xbox One/Series coming this October. Will it change Soul Hackers interest for Xbox owners? Who knows.
no, it won't

they have even less reason to pay attention to Soul Hackers now. the western marketing for this is stillborn
 
Right now after the X-Box showcase, there’s still no sign that SH2 will be coming to GP like the Persona games. Which many others echo would have been one of SH2’s best bets in the west. Now more than ever, especially before P5R in October.

So I’m really not sure how engagement will work out on MS platforms otherwise, unless GP players are willing to pay for a smaller budget SMT game after finishing P5R after October, or it comes out there later.
 
The thing to remember is SH2 may be a budget title but will be a full priced game when it releases (60 USD), I can't see a full priced turn-based JRPG fairing very well on Xbox. The Persona games when they release will be in Game Pass and cheaper than full price (I'm not sure about P5R). Not only is SH2 totally overshadowed by the Persona games but it sets a precedent that Xbox users should wait for the game to be in Game Pass and not pay full price for a turn-based game.

I remember this whole debate came up when Octopath Traveler was revealed, is a turn-based game worth full price? Once the reviews game in it was clear it was and those people soon became quiet.
 
They also posted it on Twitter, it seems SH2 marketing in the West by Atlus has started. We will see with what consistency and the levels of engagement it gets.
 
All the party looks like ugly Vtuvers.
 
Ok I'm not sure what Atlus is thinking but P5R on switch/Xbox/PC is going to completely overshadow this game and cut off all legs IMO.

The only saving grace is going to be if the launch is high enough but there is no way this is going to sell 1 million from what we've seen and the insane competition.
 
Yeah, the engagement for Persona tweets is far beyond anything Soul Hackers 2 has mustered.

Stick a fork in it.
 
Even Scarlet Nexus sold 1M, i can see it selling that
SEGA sometimes is aggresive with the pricing of their games but will they reach Scarlet Nexus levels? That game got Humble Bundles and sub 25$ deals less than 9 months before release
 
Soul Hackers is starting to get its ads. Beyond the launch trailer, this will probably be it as far as trailers go


We are one month and a half from the launch of the game, soon marketing should start so I’d imagine that we will get one or two more trailers plus online ads and partnerships with creators and media. Atlus still has a chance to market the game correctly imo but with how competitive it has become quickly H2 they should start as soon as possible and put behind a big push for it like Bamco did with Tales Of Arise
 
I really do think Atlus should have been smarter with the Persona ports announcement. They should have let Soul Hackers 2 come out and THEN announce Persona for those platforms; it would probably have ended up doing fairly well for itself on especially PC (and maybe even a little bit Xbox) because those players on platforms would take Soul Hackers as a stand in for Persona (not dissimilar to how Atlus handled SMTV vs P5 on Switch for example).

I just think that there was a chance for SH2 to at least be a sleeper hit, and now its audience on two out of three platforms is gutted (I assume it’ll do well on PlayStation regardless owing to a strong base for JRPGs and Atlus games there, but honestly that holds more true for the PS4 base than the PS5 one and right now it’s not clear how much of that base has transitioned over. Meanwhile the engagement levels of the PS4 base ARE continuing to die down, so we may be in the worst possible “sweet spot” periods on that front).
 
I really do think Atlus should have been smarter with the Persona ports announcement. They should have let Soul Hackers 2 come out and THEN announce Persona for those platforms; it would probably have ended up doing fairly well for itself on especially PC (and maybe even a little bit Xbox) because those players on platforms would take Soul Hackers as a stand in for Persona (not dissimilar to how Atlus handled SMTV vs P5 on Switch for example).

I just think that there was a chance for SH2 to at least be a sleeper hit, and now its audience on two out of three platforms is gutted (I assume it’ll do well on PlayStation regardless owing to a strong base for JRPGs and Atlus games there, but honestly that holds more true for the PS4 base than the PS5 one and right now it’s not clear how much of that base has transitioned over. Meanwhile the engagement levels of the PS4 base ARE continuing to die down, so we may be in the worst possible “sweet spot” periods on that front).
PS4 Persona fanbase still exists even if probably some have moved to other platforms (PS5/PC being the main ones probably but also sadly for Atlus Switch) I don't think that the buyer that bought Persona 5 Royal and loved it in 2020 now will not give SH2 a chance because he has moved to PC for example, only issue are buyers that have moved to Switch and that's an issue more in Japan/East Asia than in the West. The issue when it comes to PS4 Atlus fanbase imo will be if SH2 is able or not to make the Persona fanbase want to buy it (of course not all fanbase but an important part) more than that the fanbase of Atlus on PS4 becoming smaller. I think also that considering P4G success in PC (even if a major factor was the price and novelty) we can also consider that in PC it has a chance to do great if the quality and marketing is there. It seems tho that SH2 will depend on WoW to sell which is always a really risky strategy (that usually 'fails' even if the quality is there) which is sad because Atlus/SEGA have for sure the resources to make a much bigger push than what they are doing right now, we can only hope that they finally do something in the upcoming weeks in the West.

pd: Used Persona to mean PS4 Atlus fanbase because that's what Atlus fanbase in PS4 is really imo (I consider Vanillaware a seperate fanbase than Atlus one)
 
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Since SH2 were announced a lot of people –and Atlus itself– said that they want the Persona fanbase for this game.

But isn't it a flawed argument? Persona fanbase wants Persona, not Persona-like games. And Atlus games have a cult following, not a wide mainstream one. This has been mentioned in the thread before, but just because Persona achieved wide success can we expect the same for the rest of Atlus games? Can Atlus put million selling games in the market regularly, or is more safe to assume that the sales won’t be that high?

We have the recent example of SMTV, but that was on Switch with Nintendo marketing.
 
If it were not for this thread I would have forgotten about the game.
Is Installbase better at marketing SH2 than Atlus?
Since SH2 were announced a lot of people –and Atlus itself– said that they want the Persona fanbase for this game.

But isn't it a flawed argument? Persona fanbase wants Persona, not Persona-like games. And Atlus games have a cult following, not a wide mainstream one. This has been mentioned in the thread before, but just because Persona achieved wide success can we expect the same for the rest of Atlus games? Can Atlus put million selling games in the market regularly, or is more safe to assume that the sales won’t be that high?

We have the recent example of SMTV, but that was on Switch with Nintendo marketing.
I think that with wanting Persona fanbase they are not trying to make Persona lite/2.0 and sell it to them as just another Persona, because for that as you said it would make more sense to make another Persona come. What they want is this Persona fanbase to expand and be more than ‘Persona’ fanbase and become ‘Atlus’ fanbase with a quality title in SH2 that shares some characteristics with Persona but it also is it’s own thing at the same time. I’d think that is like Nintendo wanting Bayonetta fanbase to buy Astral Chain (same developer, similar battle system but quite a different type of game).

I think Atlus has the ‘pedigree’ to make constant 1M sellers the quality, budget and appeal is there for their JRPGs, only big issue is the marketing especially in the West.

In an era of Tales Of Arise selling 2m+, XC2 selling 2m+ and Team Asano games being consistent 1M sellers Atlus has no excuse for their big games to not sell at least 1m+ , breaking the 2M barrier though will be hard for their non-Persona titles imo.
 
This game can still sell more than SMTV. If it can't it be a really big failure considering the number of platforms it is hitting, and it's Atlus footing the bill for the first time for a simultaneous release.

Y'all too down on it.
 
This game can still sell more than SMTV. If it can't it be a really big failure considering the number of platforms it is hitting, and it's Atlus footing the bill for the first time for a simultaneous release.

Y'all too down on it.
Nothing is suggesting it will on any metric. Pre order charting is lower than SMT V, social media engagement on YouTube, Twitter, etc is lower than SMT V. On a 'technological" level, I would say SMT V seems like the more "advanced" game than this.

More platforms does not inherently mean more sales, especially so when the marketing is nonexistent and the one platform it IS skipping is by far the biggest for JRPGs like this.
 
This game can still sell more than SMTV. If it can't it be a really big failure considering the number of platforms it is hitting, and it's Atlus footing the bill for the first time for a simultaneous release.

Y'all too down on it.
I have yet to see any reason it can outsell SMT5. just being on more systems isn't a guarantee of anything. no marketing to speak of, barely any gameplay footage, etc. I guess previews will be the last thing it'll have going for it outside of the launch trailer, but that's not a lot of time and people already divided their attention elsewhere
 
This game can still sell more than SMTV. If it can't it be a really big failure considering the number of platforms it is hitting, and it's Atlus footing the bill for the first time for a simultaneous release.

Y'all too down on it.
Based on what thought? Preorder numbers are dismal, social media engagement is dismal, marketing is dismal, awareness is dismal, the best shot it had at success was as a stand-in/consolation game for platforms without Persona buoying its sales, and even that’s gone now.

Can it still do well? Of course. Marketing might ramp up, reviews might be excellent, word of mouth could be overwhelmingly positive. But right now there is absolutely nothing to indicate it can even match SMTV, let alone exceed it.
 
Atlus must be really baking on amazing reviews and great post release WoM because the marketing so far has been a bit disappointing.

Game is gonna be great so I'm hoping for the best but bring sandwiched between it's bigger siblings with SMTV and Persona Everywhere ports is probably gonna limit its sales potential.
 
We are in release month! From the state of things it looks like SMT5 is going to take this pretty easily. The lack of marketing and Persona ports taking all the spotlight seems to have doomed SH2 from my perspective.

Will be interesting to see how things shake out and if we get any official numbers.
 
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