What is the true sales potential of Pokémon Legends: Arceus ?

[BoktaiFan]

I might be about to make a fool of myself but, is it possible for Arceus to be the best-selling single SKU of 2022 in the US given it's January launch? Does that go to Call of Duty all the time or is it a contestable achievement for high profile exclusives?

They won't gave digital for it so that will probably mean no at least as far as NPD is ranked.

 

[Koni]

I really doubt this would be the case, and the latter post specifically is ridiculous. Spinning a massive success into a "failure" with conspiracy theory level reasoning. Let's first wait to see if Legends even manages to outsell SwSh, but even if it does, it'd much likelier be because it expanded the audience (getting picked up by lapsed fans, casual fans, people who aren't traditionally fans in the first place but hear open world Pokémon, etc.) than because "millions" of people refused to buy SwSh.

Somehow, I didn’t think of that. You’re right, this is probably the case.

If LA does outsell SwSh, though, then that should all but guarantee that Gen 9 will follow this formula or at least take a lot of elements from it. Either way, this new style of Pokémon will stick around going forward.

Actually… which would you guys prefer? Legends continuing to be its own series? Or Legends essentially becoming the foundation for which future mainline Pokemon games? Or both? There’s potential in either option, but I’m not sure if GF can do both.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

I wouldn’t mind Legends being a revisit style to an old region but it’s that side ambitious thing, while the traditional mainline follows a form that’s pretty bog standard for Pokémon which comes out more frequently with the gyms and whatnot.


Legends 2 would take a long time to make and they will most surely improve upon the existing legends. It’s not something to rush out and better to take its time in the oven.

Like how 2D Zelda is split from 3D Zelda and they can coexist.

 

[RennanNT]

Actually… which would you guys prefer? Legends continuing to be its own series? Or Legends essentially becoming the foundation for which future mainline Pokemon games? Or both? There’s potential in either option, but I’m not sure if GF can do both.

I think they struck gold with their current strategy.

Pokemon is simply too big for a one size fits all game, like Sun/Moon tried to be. Always targeting the same audience is relatively safer, but has limited growth opportunities. Designing games around different audiences within the IP fans and you can both grow sales signficantly and please the fanbase going forwards*.

Let's Go was a bridge for Go players, SwSh was the traditional game, BDSP doubled down on nostalgia and Arceus caters to the fans who have been neglected. Each of them brings in players the other games couldn't, and once in they might try the other games. They have longer legs as well.

*Fans who didn't want Arceus or 1:1 remakes were negatively affected since they went from pretty much yearly traditional games to once every 3~4 years, but they're still getting the game they want and they will likely enjoy the other games, even if not as much...

Of course, there was a risk of this backfiring and them alienating fans without enough new players compensating for it. But now that they got this far and apparently were very successful, IMO it's of their best interest to make a SwSh2 next and a Legends2 later.

 

[awng782]

UK retail launch details:

 

[Ksdaop]

Somehow, I didn’t think of that. You’re right, this is probably the case.

If LA does outsell SwSh, though, then that should all but guarantee that Gen 9 will follow this formula or at least take a lot of elements from it. Either way, this new style of Pokémon will stick around going forward.

Actually… which would you guys prefer? Legends continuing to be its own series? Or Legends essentially becoming the foundation for which future mainline Pokemon games? Or both? There’s potential in either option, but I’m not sure if GF can do both.

Gen 9 is probably already in dev. I doubt pla will affect it.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Gen 9 is probably already in dev. I doubt pla will affect it.

if anything, Gen 9 will share ideas with Legends Arceus

 

[jacsoncr]

will sell more than 25 million, the game is a phenomenon at the moment

 

[Kano]

Gen 9 is probably already in dev. I doubt pla will affect it.

Legends' producer is the likely director of Gen 9's debut game, so it will very likely affect it.

 

[Phantom Thief]

Who is the director of PLA? Give Gen 9 to him. Can’t say I’m a big fan of Ohmori’s output so far personally :>

Then again

I think they struck gold with their current strategy.

Pokemon is simply too big for a one size fits all game, like Sun/Moon tried to be. Always targeting the same audience is relatively safer, but has limited growth opportunities. Designing games around different audiences within the IP fans and you can both grow sales signficantly and please the fanbase going forwards*.

Let's Go was a bridge for Go players, SwSh was the traditional game, BDSP doubled down on nostalgia and Arceus caters to the fans who have been neglected. Each of them brings in players the other games couldn't, and once in they might try the other games. They have longer legs as well.

*Fans who didn't want Arceus or 1:1 remakes were negatively affected since they went from pretty much yearly traditional games to once every 3~4 years, but they're still getting the game they want and they will likely enjoy the other games, even if not as much...

Of course, there was a risk of this backfiring and them alienating fans without enough new players compensating for it. But now that they got this far and apparently were very successful, IMO it's of their best interest to make a SwSh2 next and a Legends2 later.

This is a very interesting breakdown of their strategy here. Even if me (and the dozens of other forum dwellers like me) may not have been as enamoured by SuMo or SwSh, it’s undeniable how successful they ended up being regardless. Maybe continuing to differentiate games to appeal to multiple different audiences is the way to go.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Who is the director of PLA? Give Gen 9 to him. Can’t say I’m a big fan of Ohmori’s output so far personally :>

Kazumasa Iwao, director of USUM

 

[Phantom Thief]

Kazumasa Iwao, director of USUM

Oh I actually really liked USUM (Gen 7 is still my least favorite but I was very close to outright disliking it before, and USUM made me like it more). That's really interesting, seems like I like his approach to Pokemon lol.

Hopefully he continues getting more projects.

 

[Koni]

I think they struck gold with their current strategy.

Pokemon is simply too big for a one size fits all game, like Sun/Moon tried to be. Always targeting the same audience is relatively safer, but has limited growth opportunities. Designing games around different audiences within the IP fans and you can both grow sales signficantly and please the fanbase going forwards*.

Let's Go was a bridge for Go players, SwSh was the traditional game, BDSP doubled down on nostalgia and Arceus caters to the fans who have been neglected. Each of them brings in players the other games couldn't, and once in they might try the other games. They have longer legs as well.

*Fans who didn't want Arceus or 1:1 remakes were negatively affected since they went from pretty much yearly traditional games to once every 3~4 years, but they're still getting the game they want and they will likely enjoy the other games, even if not as much...

Of course, there was a risk of this backfiring and them alienating fans without enough new players compensating for it. But now that they got this far and apparently were very successful, IMO it's of their best interest to make a SwSh2 next and a Legends2 later.

I can definitely see the inevitable Gen 5 remakes follow the same route as Gen 4. One would be a super-faithful remake of the original two games, while the Legends games would expand upon the lore of the story (can easily see a Legends Kyurem or whatever the original dragon was).

As for Generation 9, it would make a lot of sense sales-wise for the mainline games to remain relatively traditional, as there is an audience for it and I think it’s more accessible. However, I don’t think Game Freak would want to experience sustained backlash like SwSh did, and more traditional Gen 9 will inevitably bring that unless it brings over elements from Legends Arceus.

I personally think it would be best if Gen 9 took the successful stuff from LA while still maintaining some traditional elements. Then you can use the Legends series to continue experimenting with ideas that can rally shake up and evolve the Pokémon formula.

TLDR:
- Remakes are traditional and almost 100% faithful to the original game, just more modern-looking
- Legends games expand upon the lore of the generation and are more Monster Hunter like or open-world, and is essentially the l breeding ground for new ideas
- Newer Generation games are a careful mix of the two above styles, taking what works from each while adding it’s own ideas or gimmicks
- Let’s Go remains the same, really

 

[Lelouch0612]

I can definitely see the inevitable Gen 5 remakes follow the same route as Gen 4. One would be a super-faithful remake of the original two games, while the Legends games would expand upon the lore of the story (can easily see a Legends Kyurem or whatever the original dragon was).

As for Generation 9, it would make a lot of sense sales-wise for the mainline games to remain relatively traditional, as there is an audience for it and I think it’s more accessible. However, I don’t think Game Freak would want to experience sustained backlash like SwSh did, and more traditional Gen 9 will inevitably bring that unless it brings over elements from Legends Arceus.

I personally think it would be best if Gen 9 took the successful stuff from LA while still maintaining some traditional elements. Then you can use the Legends series to continue experimenting with ideas that can rally shake up and evolve the Pokémon formula.

TLDR:
- Remakes are traditional and almost 100% faithful to the original game, just more modern-looking
- Legends games expand upon the lore of the generation and are more Monster Hunter like or open-world, and is essentially the l breeding ground for new ideas
- Newer Generation games are a careful mix of the two above styles, taking what works from each while adding it’s own ideas or gimmicks
- Let’s Go remains the same, really

Yep.

Let's Go might not be necessary with this strategy mix since the playing ground will be Legends, and the faithful remakes will be taken by ILCA.

And to people that doubt Gen 9 is going to take from Legends, Sword/Shield borrowed significant additions from Let's Go (overworld encounters, XP candies, unlimited and always available box etc) when they were spaced out by 1 single year. Gen 9 will release 22 months after Legends in comparison.

 

[TheSilentWombat]

Is there any real reason a lot of the mechanics from Legends Arceus couldn't just be integrated into the new game? I don't think anyone is gonna skip Gen 9 if they brought over the new pokeball mechanics or a lot of the other gameplay and QOL improvements from Legends. I think Gen 9 will likely be an attempt to integrate some of the stuff from Legends into a more traditional mainline game. Based on SwSh and its DLCs they are already moving in a more open direction for the mainline games anyway, so I don't see why they would take away very popular features from their new games when these new ideas clearly have sales potential.

 

[Kano]

I don't think Let's Go can be sustained in the current environment. I'm not expecting that subseries to continue at all, especially since it was a Masuda pet project and he moved on from it.

 

[Koni]

Is there any real reason a lot of the mechanics from Legends Arceus couldn't just be integrated into the new game? I don't think anyone is gonna skip Gen 9 if they brought over the new pokeball mechanics or a lot of the other gameplay and QOL improvements from Legends. I think Gen 9 will likely be an attempt to integrate some of the stuff from Legends into a more traditional mainline game. Based on SwSh and its DLCs they are already moving in a more open direction for the mainline games anyway, so I don't see why they would take away very popular features from their new games when these new ideas clearly have sales potential.

I hope Game Freak can find a way to really differentiate Legends from the mainline series besides the catching mechanics and just how seamless everything is alongside other QoL improvements, because I personally want to see all of that in the mainline games (as do many others). I think the Monster Hunter-esque gameplay loop, more lore-focused narrative, and historical setting can do that.

 

[Baobab]

Since we are talking about future Pokémon games…..wasn’t there an expected detective pikachu game?

 

[TheSilentWombat]

Since we are talking about future Pokémon games…..wasn’t there an expected detective pikachu game?

Detective Pickachu 2 is in Pokemon Vaporware Heaven with Pokemon Sleep

 

[Phantom Thief]

Since we are talking about future Pokémon games…..wasn’t there an expected detective pikachu game?

Detective Pickachu 2 is in Pokemon Vaporware Heaven with Pokemon Sleep

Even if it exists and comes out, like, tomorrow, it's not really a mainline game and not a part of a conversation about those mainline titles.

 

[awng782]

I don't think Let's Go can be sustained in the current environment. I'm not expecting that subseries to continue at all, especially since it was a Masuda pet project and he moved on from it.

I agree with this. Let's Go was a quick small-scale project built specifically to capitalize on Pokemon Go + Gen 1 nostalgia and get a HD Pokemon RPG on Switch ASAP before Sword/Shield.

IMO, a hypothetical Let's Go Johto developed with the exact same design philosophy as Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee will probably struggle to sell half as many copies.

3 Pokemon subseries - new generation mainline titles + DLC, extremely faithful visual remakes, and Legends entries (+ DLC?) - is more than enough.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

Pokémon let’s go Shaymin/Manaphy was just repurposed to be Legends Arceus

 

[Simar]

I agree with this. Let's Go was a quick small-scale project built specifically to capitalize on Pokemon Go + Gen 1 nostalgia and get a HD Pokemon RPG on Switch ASAP before Sword/Shield.

IMO, a hypothetical Let's Go Johto developed with the exact same design philosophy as Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee will probably struggle to sell half as many copies.

3 Pokemon subseries - new generation mainline titles + DLC, extremely faithful visual remakes, and Legends entries (+ DLC?) - is more than enough.

I agree that LG is the subseries least likely to continue but i actually think Let's Go Johto has potential as a "filler game" since they have the engine, many assets, about half of the map and 151 Pokémon are already adjusted to the LG style (while the other 100 at least already have their models ready).

 

[Bodokoh]

It's really insane when 2 Pokémon games were released very close to each other and both games are also going to sell over 15 million units without any problem.

I'm hoping for Black and White Remake to be given to Monolith Soft.

 

[RennanNT]

However, I don’t think Game Freak would want to experience sustained backlash like SwSh did, and more traditional Gen 9 will inevitably bring that unless it brings over elements from Legends Arceus.

I doubt we will have a backslash anywhere near what SwSh got. People are generally fine waiting 3~5 years for the next game (Legends 2, in this case).

The problem is when they don't have any prospect of getting the game they want, then they throw their frustration at the game they don't want. See Federation Force, for example, which would have been just another spin off, like Fire Emblem Heroes or Hyrule Warriors, had it been released in a different time.

With that said, people will complain when some improvements from SwSh/Arceus doesn't make their way to gen 9, but thats pretty much a tradition in this series.

 

[mokuroh]

i blame the leakers...

 

[Dwebble]

I wonder if this success with a January launch perhaps paves the way for a new Gen game launching outside of the holiday months?

 

[Waluigilicious]

+ Played until 4am
+ Played it in my dream
+ First thing I thought of when I woke up

The last time I felt excited to play a Pokemon game was BW2. I've been reminded why I love video games.

 

[Baobab]

Even if it exists and comes out, like, tomorrow, it's not really a mainline game and not a part of a conversation about those mainline titles.

Well I was more thinking about the possible line up for the next Holiday Pokemon game .....let´s say this december the DLC for Legend comes out( is this a possibility? ) and the new detective Pikachu also comes out, i think that that could be considered enough by the Pokemon company and game Freak as far as the videogame output in one year goes, this would give us the indication that the next gen Pokemon game will come out in 2023 or later

I wonder if this success with a January launch perhaps paves the way for a new Gen game launching outside of the holiday months?

I think that is definitely a possibility also because you could aim at the chinese new year festivities

 

[Tokuiten]

The more I play, the more I'm reaching this conclusion:

There are two very distinctive ways to judge this game.:
1) Judged as a video game releasing in 2022, this is a medicore game that has some fun core mechanics, but misses too much necessary stuff that would make it a great game.
2) Judged as a Pokemon game releasing after SwSh, this is a phenomenal experience that at times brings tears of joy to my mind and makes me hopeful for the future of the franchise.

I'm glad that I'm a long-time (day 1 Blue-edition, baebee!) fan so that I can have the 2)-reaction. But I don't think anyone could fault non-Pokemon-fans for feeling closer to 1).

 

[Koni]

The more I play, the more I'm reaching this conclusion:

There are two very distinctive ways to judge this game.:
1) Judged as a video game releasing in 2022, this medicore game that has some fun core mechanics, but misses too much necessary stuff that would make it a great game.
2) Judged as a Pokemon game releasing after SwSh, this is a phenomenal experience that at times brings tears of joy to my mind and makes me hopeful for the future of the franchise.

I'm glad that I'm a long-time (day 1 Blue-edition, baebee!) fan so that I can have the 2)-reaction. But I don't think anyone could fault non-Pokemon-fans for feeling closer to 1).

I think the kicker here is that Game Freak decided to drastically switch up the Pokémon formula for the first time in over a decade, if ever. All despite the fact that financially speaking, they totally didn’t need to. SwSh sold like gangbusters despite the controversy, and Legends has “risk” written all over it, down to the January release.

Pokémon games have so much potential that a lot of people can see and people are just happy that it’s finally being realized, even if slowly. Pokémon may not be up to snuff with how games should look in 2022, but it’ll always have arguably the most addictive gameplay loop. A loop that Game Freak made even more addictive with Legends.

 

[Simar]

I love that despite the many big changes it's not like GF made a completely different game and many ideas of PLA are based on previous games.
Alpha Pokémon are based on Totem Pokémon, the different areas with their wardens remind of the the islands of Alola and the island challenge (which i prefer over gyms), catching without battles from LGPE, battling multiple Pokémon like horde encounters etc

Pokémon games have so much potential that a lot of people can see and people are just happy that it’s finally being realized, even if slowly. Pokémon may not be up to snuff with how games should look in 2022, but it’ll always have arguably the most addictive gameplay loop. A loop that Game Freak made even more addictive with Legends.

Yeah, i had a (modern) Pokémon break after LGPE until the second SwSh expansion released but running around in the open areas of SwSh and PLA is just fun and completing the PokéDex has never been this easy.
I'm happy about some QoL features that should have been introduced years ago (e.g. switching from buy to sell in the ship with a simple button press and having little images for status effects and stat changes instead of hiding it in menus or blocking the name of the Pokémon).
If the next game has smaller letterboxing i'll be happy about that as well.

 

[Kano]

The more I play, the more I'm reaching this conclusion:

There are two very distinctive ways to judge this game.:
1) Judged as a video game releasing in 2022, this medicore game that has some fun core mechanics, but misses too much necessary stuff that would make it a great game.
2) Judged as a Pokemon game releasing after SwSh, this is a phenomenal experience that at times brings tears of joy to my mind and makes me hopeful for the future of the franchise.

I'm glad that I'm a long-time (day 1 Blue-edition, baebee!) fan so that I can have the 2)-reaction. But I don't think anyone could fault non-Pokemon-fans for feeling closer to 1).

or it's just a great game, no need to compare it to its own series. i play a lot of "modern games" and it's more fun than most of them lol

 

[Phantom Thief]

The more I play, the more I'm reaching this conclusion:

There are two very distinctive ways to judge this game.:
1) Judged as a video game releasing in 2022, this medicore game that has some fun core mechanics, but misses too much necessary stuff that would make it a great game.
2) Judged as a Pokemon game releasing after SwSh, this is a phenomenal experience that at times brings tears of joy to my mind and makes me hopeful for the future of the franchise.

I'm glad that I'm a long-time (day 1 Blue-edition, baebee!) fan so that I can have the 2)-reaction. But I don't think anyone could fault non-Pokemon-fans for feeling closer to 1).

I disagree with this assessment very thoroughly, it’s a great game under most contexts. Unless graphics take paramount importance for you (which is totally fine, I get that), that’s the only possible scenario I personally see where Legends is anything less than great

 

[Vergus]

I think the kicker here is that Game Freak decided to drastically switch up the Pokémon formula for the first time in over a decade, if ever. All despite the fact that financially speaking, they totally didn’t need to. SwSh sold like gangbusters despite the controversy, and Legends has “risk” written all over it, down to the January release.

Pokémon games have so much potential that a lot of people can see and people are just happy that it’s finally being realized, even if slowly. Pokémon may not be up to snuff with how games should look in 2022, but it’ll always have arguably the most addictive gameplay loop. A loop that Game Freak made even more addictive with Legends.

It is really surprising they chose this approach considering how even Pokémon fans (supportive ones) didn't care for changes. Every time a criticism or suggestion comes up, these fans always dismiss them because "it doesn't matter since it'll sell gangbusters anyway". Just like how my previous comment on the marketing is immediately met with "who cares because it'll sell millions", I thought Gamefreak wouldn't bother. It is a joyous occasion for them to change the formula though. Even the fans that are sensitive to criticism are, ironically, enjoying the very changes they dismiss as pointless or toxic discourse. Though of course they're now defending other things. I wish the fans would be a bit some self-aware that their stance isn't actually as consistent as they think and defending things for the sake of being defensive derails a lot of discussions. Hope Gamefreak can have more time working on the next games because Legends certainly found itself a good formula. It just needs some polishing and better graphics (no matter how much certain fans dismiss them as unimportant).

 

[Simar]

It just needs some polishing and better graphics (no matter how much certain fans dismiss them as unimportant).

I think this is the second time i've read this since release but which parts actually need polishing? The game looks pretty polished to me. The only bug i've seen was that second Snorlax tweet.

 

[Xevross]

The more I play, the more I'm reaching this conclusion:

There are two very distinctive ways to judge this game.:
1) Judged as a video game releasing in 2022, this medicore game that has some fun core mechanics, but misses too much necessary stuff that would make it a great game.
2) Judged as a Pokemon game releasing after SwSh, this is a phenomenal experience that at times brings tears of joy to my mind and makes me hopeful for the future of the franchise.

I'm glad that I'm a long-time (day 1 Blue-edition, baebee!) fan so that I can have the 2)-reaction. But I don't think anyone could fault non-Pokemon-fans for feeling closer to 1).

I agree with your point 2 completely and feel the sentiment of point 1 but I think mediocre is very harsh (imo of course).

I love and am enamoured with this game for the reasons you pointed out in 2, especially after SwSh was such a massive disappointment for the first home console Pokémon. I'm loving it as much as pretty much any game I've played before, but it's hardly GOTY quality and not something I'd consider a masterpiece or anything like that.

The change in formula is amazing and the promise for the future is very exciting, but this is "just" a very good video game judged by 2022 standards.

It's not really a complaint and I think this is exactly what Pokémon fans needed, but there's room for this formula to get even better from here and genuinely be a GOTY quality game.

 

[Tokuiten]

I disagree with this assessment very thoroughly, it’s a great game under most contexts. Unless graphics take paramount importance for you (which is totally fine, I get that), that’s the only possible scenario I personally see where Legends is anything less than great

I cannot imagine anyone not already invested in the Pokemon-franchise would call this a great game. That's why I understand when reviews gives this 6-8/10 scores. And graphics are not the issue, unless you use it as a roundabout meaning presentation, voiceacting, smooth animations, environmental interactivity, etc..

But let's stop this debate right now, because I'm enjoying the game. So I have no interest in being the "bad guy", lol. I just can understand the people that aren't all in. If you're not a Pokemon-fan, it's difficult to overlook the shortcomings. As a Pokemon-fan, it's difficult to overlook the massive improvements.

 

[NiteJohn]

As one of those fan that dismiss the criticisms, I still dismiss those criticisms. Additionally, despite this be my favorite Pokemon game, I am out if the series becomes just this. At the moment I only bother with Pokemon if I know I can catch them with a ball, if I can't I just leave. The battle system is the worst in the series and is in my opinion a failure. The information that is provided is insignificant or worse lying. There seems to be a mechanic that cause you to not one shot a wild Pokemon, but they can do the same for you. Additionally, the noble Pokemon are starting to be a chore, I have actively avoid continuing the game because the amount of dislike I have for Arcanine. If Legends become the only Pokemon the series dies, it does not have what has made Pokemon endure.

 

[Fiendslayer]

I cannot imagine anyone not already invested in the Pokemon-franchise would call this a great game. That's why I understand when reviews gives this 6-8/10 scores. And graphics are not the issue, unless you use it as a roundabout meaning presentation, voiceacting, smooth animations, environmental interactivity, etc..

But let's stop this debate right now, because I'm enjoying the game. So I have no interest in being the "bad guy", lol. I just can understand the people that aren't all in. If you're not a Pokemon-fan, it's difficult to overlook the shortcomings. As a Pokemon-fan, it's difficult to overlook the massive improvements.

Is this 2022? This is a repackaged Belda argument first used against BotW years ago...

 

[meatbag]

I think the graphics are fine, I love the aesthetic, and at the same time I consider Legends Arceus not just less than great, but less than good. It’s merely alright. I don’t like the battle system all that much. I’d also like the catching process be more involved.

That said, there’s no denying the audience at large is absolutely loving it. The gameplay loop works.

 

[Tokuiten]

Is this 2022? This is a repackaged Belda argument first used against BotW years ago...

BotW would impress the world without the Zelda moniker.

Arceus would impress nobody without the Pokemon moniker.

Not sure how you can compare these two entirely different situations.

 

[Phantom Thief]

BotW would impress the world without the Zelda moniker.

Arceus would impress nobody without the Pokemon moniker.

Not sure how you can compare these two entirely different situations.

How many monster catching games like Arceus actually exist?

 

[cw_sasuke]

BotW would impress the world without the Zelda moniker.

Arceus would impress nobody without the Pokemon moniker.

Not sure how you can compare these two entirely different situations.

'Only a Sith deals in absolutes.'

Im kinda impressed how people take their own personal evaluation and just apply them onto a market of millions of customers. I don't even know how you could get the affirmation needed to make the second statement.

What Pokemon Legends Arceus game are even out there ? People hype up tech demo like DokeV or games that fell off ages ago like TemTem when it comes to downplaying what Game Freak delivers but what games are actually comparing with Arceus right now ?

 

[Tokuiten]

How many monster catching games like Arceus actually exist?

Okay, so Arceus is the best game of a type of game where it is the only one that exists. And now? :/

It's disappointing that my reasonable statements are being attacked, despite giving praise to the game. Starting to remind me of the Resetera-SwSh thread where all critics were dogpiled.

There's nothing outlandish about stating the Arceus is not a game that doesn't impress non-Pokemon fans.

 

[Phantom Thief]

Okay, so Arceus is the best game of a type of game where it is the only one that exists. And now? :/

It's disappointing that my reasonable statements are being attacked, despite giving praise to the game. Starting to remind me of the Resetera-SwSh thread where all critics were dogpiled.

There's nothing outlandish about stating the Arceus is not a game that doesn't impress non-Pokemon fans.

The issue is you’re making comments and statements based purely on your own personal assessment of the game, you’re backing it up with nothing. What is this statement based on? Anecdotally, many people in even the most critical communities who have had zero interest in Pokémon seem to be impressed with Arceus, but of course I wouldn’t use that as a data point to support an argument regarding any broader trend.

What is your argument based on? Personal feelings?

And Arceus isn’t the only type of its game, loads of monster catching games exist, including three other Pokémon games on Switch alone (not counting stuff like Monster Hunter Stories and SMT). SMT is honestly probably the closest analog to Arceus in terms of scope and ambition and even that doesn’t have this much fluidity for this many monsters across this many independently maintained systemic biomes. Arceus may look like crap but it is without question one of the two most ambitious games of its type at the very least. That’s empirical fact.

Would people appreciate it as much if it wasn’t Pokémon? Who knows? You say “no one would give a shit” I say if it hadn’t been Pokémon and been the exact same game otherwise, praise would be far more universally positive as even its current critics would have pounced on it and held it up as a standard for what Pokémon could be if Game Freak didn’t suck or whatever. However, which of us is right? Who’s to say, this is literally a point of discussion steeped in speculative hypotheticals.

Lastly, I won’t speak for the others, but I haven’t attacked or dogpiled you even once. I’ve attempted to engage with you in a conversation on your points that I disagree on, but disagreement isn’t the same as being attacked or dogpiled. If you make a relatively outlandish claim that’s not only unbacked by any data on a data driven forum, but also, CANNOT be backed by data because of the kind of claim it is, you’re gonna get pushback lol. That’s not people attacking you, that’s them asking you to defend and back up your claims.

 

[Lelouch0612]

@Tokuiten it might be time to step down from the argument. It is okay, we all have our strong opinions and bias that clouds our argument.

As it stands, since there's nothing to back it up, it is better to let it go.

 

[Nintendianajones64]

will sell more than 25 million, the game is a phenomenon at the moment

Exactly as I predicted!

The more I play, the more I'm reaching this conclusion:

There are two very distinctive ways to judge this game.:
1) Judged as a video game releasing in 2022, this is a medicore game that has some fun core mechanics, but misses too much necessary stuff that would make it a great game.
2) Judged as a Pokemon game releasing after SwSh, this is a phenomenal experience that at times brings tears of joy to my mind and makes me hopeful for the future of the franchise.

I'm glad that I'm a long-time (day 1 Blue-edition, baebee!) fan so that I can have the 2)-reaction. But I don't think anyone could fault non-Pokemon-fans for feeling closer to 1).

I'd like to point out that I haven't touched a single Pokémon game since Pokémon Yellow and Pokemon Snap and I think it's truly a phenomenal game. Pokémon or no Pokémon. It's fun and addictive. Two things that are very hard to pull off in my opinion.

 

[Lord Azrael]

I actually agree with Tokuiten's point on a personal level, but it is important to recognize that it is, in fact, personal. Would I still care about the game the same way if I wasn't already a fan of the franchise? I don't think so, but I'm not gonna go ahead and extend that opinion to everyone else as well.

 

[Charamiwa]

Peak was 477k yesterday btw.

versus

When Pokémon was confirmed for Switch at E3 2017 my first thought was "finally the series will be on a console that's easy to stream from". And predictably the series has grown tremendously on Twitch from SuMo to Let's Go to now.