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Updated sales numbers for Switch titles: Super Mario Party Jamboree (6.17M), Mario & Luigi: Brothership (1.84M), and more

It isnt undeniable or statistically certain because in an alternative reality where Nintendo chose to not bundle as aggressively maybe they instead cut the price more aggressively. If we are changing history, consider that other factors could come in to play. It's all speculation.
For there to be an uncertainty, everyone who bought a Switch in the absence of the bundle would be required to buy the game separately. 100% of those customers buying the game without a bundle is about as close to a statistical impossibility as it gets.
Sure, but the point is, that it would still regardless be way ahead of all other Switch games and when not counting bundles is already by far the best selling Nintendo game ever.
Not landing at the exact same final number doesn't mean much in that regard, when the difference ends up being like 10%. Many of the people who bought a bundle, wanted the game regardless, which is also true for NSMBWii.
Without quantifying "many" or how many of those that "wanted" the game were ready to drop the full sticker price on it or simply preferred it to the Wii Sports option (heck, some of the bundles came with both of those games together), that is near impossible to know. We cannot know intent, only results, and the result was that the bundle bolstered NSMBWii's performance right from immediately after its first year of being only available as a standalone software product.
 
Seems Brothership's gonna clear 2 million and outsell the TTYD remake. It's a new game so it should be expected, but I'm very glad to see that the series selling respectable numbers again! Hope this bodes well for the future of the franchise.

If I were Nintendo, I'd put out a Paper Mario game in the first half of the Switch 2's lifecycle and a Mario and Luigi game in the second half. Or maybe see if we can get a Super Mario RPG sequel going and then try to get an RPG out for each third of the console's lifespan.

Mario Party's a is a reliable 8-figure seller now. That's crazy. Almost as crazy as Mario Kart selling 3 million copies in one quarter. This game really is Nintendo's GTA V. And people wonder why it was the first and only thing shown at the Switch 2 reveal trailer. xD
 
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Please recall I acknowledged the game's ability to sell without it, but it's undeniable that it would not land at the same final figure without the bundling. That's just statistically certain.
Keep in mind that if Nintendo would follow the same strategy as Capcom with deep price discounts for old games every Nintendo game would pad out their sales figures considerably compared to today.
 
If they want to differentiate more their Mario RPGs, making M&L a co-op adventure would do wonders.

It is such an untapped market and a natural fit for the series, I am surprised they didnt already try with Brothership.
I think Nintendo might've wanted to find a reliable team that can carry the franchise before they decided to iterate on it again. But yeah, a co-op adventure would be a no-brainer.
 
Software sales units bundled with hardware
FY19/20 = 3.4m units
FY20/21 = 3.8m units
FY21/22 = 1.5m units
FY22/23 = 1.25m units
FY23/24 = 2.85m units

MK8D sales
FY19/20 = 8.08m units
FY20/21 = 10.62m units
FY21/22 = 9.94m units
FY22/23 = 8.45m units
FY23/24 = 8.18m units

If we assume that all of those bundles were exclusively for MK8D, we still have 32.47 million units sold over a span of five years.
Please recall I acknowledged the game's ability to sell without it, but it's undeniable that it would not land at the same final figure without the bundling. That's just statistically certain.
What's your estimate sales numbers for MK8D without bundles?
 
For there to be an uncertainty, everyone who bought a Switch in the absence of the bundle would be required to buy the game separately. 100% of those customers buying the game without a bundle is about as close to a statistical impossibility as it gets.
Two things wrong here:
1) These people that purchased this bundle are obviously interested in Mario Kart hence the purchase of this bundle which isn't widely available because we are talking Black Friday and a few other days like Mario day in March of the bundled consoles availability. So assuming the majority of these people would in fact have purchased a Switch and this game with aggressive price cuts separately is hardly unreasonable.

2) You are assuming more aggressive pricing doesn't make Mario Kart more attractive to current Switch owners that haven't purchased the game. That bundle is only attractive to people that haven't purchased a Switch. People that have purchased a Switch would find more attractive pricing of the game more desirable.

That's the issue with speculation, you can't close off other possibilities. All of those people that bought the game bundled don't have to buy separately in an alternative scenario but the game could replace them by targeting current Switch owners that haven't purchased the game and are attracted to the more aggressive pricing.
 
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Let's say Nintendo didn't bundle MK8D but instead followed the same pricing strategy as other publishers, ie sell the game for 10$ after the launch period, its likely MK8D would have sold more in total than it did with the bundles.
 
You know, I hadn't realized until now that Scarlet/Violet were on track to surpass Sword/Shield. Why is that? Typically the second Pokémon generation on the same console does worse than the first one. I recall that Sun/Moon got a boost from Pokémon GO mania and almost reached X/Y.
 
You know, I hadn't realized until now that Scarlet/Violet were on track to surpass Sword/Shield. Why is that? Typically the second Pokémon generation on the same console does worse than the first one. I recall that Sun/Moon got a boost from Pokémon GO mania and almost reached X/Y.
Stronger start (launch sales were 67% higher for S/V) and S/V had the opportunity of not getting additional competiton from other newer Pokémon games.

Sword/Shield only got 2 years before the Gen 4 remakes hit, Scarlet/Violet will have almost 3 years with Legends and Gen X isn't before 2026 (4 years gen vs 3 years gen).
 
I definitely had too high of expectations for Zelda: Echoes. In the end, 2D Zelda just does not have as wide of an appeal as 3D Zelda. It is selling in line with LA remake it seems. Still a good result, but I would have liked it to pass 4 million.
Brothership did pretty solid, a little better than I expected. It'll clear 2 million comfortably, probably get to around 2.5 million lifetime.

It's good that SMRPG, TTYD, and M&L all sold well releasing within a year of each other.
Yeah that was an interesting release schedule. SMRPG probably had the benefit of being the first one, but the other two did decent all things considered. But man, I was hoping TTYD would have had a bit more legs.
 
I definitely had too high of expectations for Zelda: Echoes. In the end, 2D Zelda just does not have as wide of an appeal as 3D Zelda. It is selling in line with LA remake it seems. Still a good result, but I would have liked it to pass 4 million.
At least you didn’t bet on 5 million. :V

I think isomeric adventure games are less intuitive than say, a 2D platformer, and lack that sense of freedom 3D adventure games have. So 2D Zelda will always be stuck in a hard place. It still does well for itself but it likely will never be a 10m+ blockbuster series. Which I’m sure Nintendo is fine with.
 
You know, I hadn't realized until now that Scarlet/Violet were on track to surpass Sword/Shield. Why is that? Typically the second Pokémon generation on the same console does worse than the first one. I recall that Sun/Moon got a boost from Pokémon GO mania and almost reached X/Y.
It is safe to assume SM would have sold more as well if it didn’t get replaced by USUM, which is the best selling enhanced version after Yellow. XY didn’t get one so all the sales went to it
 
LA Remake will end at ~7m units LTD and EoW will end at 5.5m-6.0m units LTD. I think this is a great result for both topdown Zeldas in combination on one plattform
 
At least you didn’t bet on 5 million. :V

I think isomeric adventure games are less intuitive than say, a 2D platformer, and lack that sense of freedom 3D adventure games have. So 2D Zelda will always be stuck in a hard place. It still does well for itself but it likely will never be a 10m+ blockbuster series. Which I’m sure Nintendo is fine with.

Yup. Outsource a large portion of the work to a trusted partner and that is an extra ~5m+ seller on top of your 20m+ BOTW style Zeldas.
 
2D Zelda games have sold over 10 million copies on Switch, that is in line what the biggest 3D Zelda games used to sell on Nintendo consoles before the Switch, so from that perspective 2D Zelda games have also benefited from the increased popularity of Zelda franchise in general on the Switch.
 
LA Remake will end at ~7m units LTD and EoW will end at 5.5m-6.0m units LTD. I think this is a great result for both topdown Zeldas in combination on one plattform
It definitely is, Zelda is in a pretty stable place whereas on previous consoles you’d see a drop off around 50% between Zelda installments (compare OOT to MM, TP Wii to SS, etc.).

I also hope they keep playable Zelda as at least an option.
 
Mario games continue to be consistent sellers every fiscal quarter for Nintendo, over 10 million copies sold of Mario games during the last fiscal quarter alone for Nintendo.
 
Completely missed Echoes of Wisdom 3.4M sell-through figure. If Nintendo doesn't drop its sales numbers randomly it will take some time for us to see it crossing 5M mark.
Even though I love traditional Zelda I have mixed feelings on this result since I unexpectedly liked it more than LA. On the other hand a remake of a traditional Zelda selling more than an original sandbox Zelda gives me hope that Nintendo might notice that the demand is still there. Even if for smaller projects.
 
Completely missed Echoes of Wisdom 3.4M sell-through figure. If Nintendo doesn't drop its sales numbers randomly it will take some time for us to see it crossing 5M mark.
Even though I love traditional Zelda I have mixed feelings on this result since I unexpectedly liked it more than LA. On the other hand a remake of a traditional Zelda selling more than an original sandbox Zelda gives me hope that Nintendo might notice that the demand is still there. Even if for smaller projects.

Nintendo has aknowledged that sequels/follow ups on the same system tend to sell less I don' think they expected it to match LA. The fact that it looks like it will sell 70%+ what LA did is a great result.

I do think Echoes of Wisdom struck a fairly happy medium on sandbox vs traditional Zelda though there is room for improvement.
 
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Nintendo might notice but they’ll still let the dev do what the want so it may be a traditional Zelda or may be a sandbox one or something else entirely.
 
Brothership did pretty solid, a little better than I expected. It'll clear 2 million comfortably, probably get to around 2.5 million lifetime.

It's good that SMRPG, TTYD, and M&L all sold well releasing within a year of each other.

Too many doom and gloom on Brothership haha. It maybe leg into 2.5m indeed. The game is also easy to market for younger audience due to its colorful artstyle.
 
Too many doom and gloom on Brothership haha. It maybe leg into 2.5m indeed. The game is also easy to market for younger audience due to its colorful artstyle.
I thought it'd be more like 1.5m, admittedly. But Mario RPGs have consistently hit 2-3 million on Switch, seems like.
 
Yeah, while we've been (overly) bullish on Nintendo for 2024, Brothership got the Mario Maker 2* cold shoulder. A bit understandable, not developed by an internal Nintendo developer and the third Mario RPG to release in a year.

But it was also a major release during the holiday period on a Nintendo system. A surefire way to be a winner.

*Man, the press and pre-release attitude towards SMM2 was such a downer. Glad that sequel saw big success.
 
I thought it'd be more like 1.5m, admittedly. But Mario RPGs have consistently hit 2-3 million on Switch, seems like.

Yup. And people should also remember. This is 60 bucks release so it bring more revenue vs handheld era release which is cheaper.
 
What's your estimate sales numbers for MK8D without bundles?
Subtract somewhere between 8-10mil off the total software figure with this year inclusive. Pretty great for a bundle primarily only trotted out during holiday periods, all things considered.

The biggest trick in this discussion is comparing what has largely been a seasonal bundle with bundling Nintendo did with NSMBWii, which was readily available regardless of season every year since the first year after the game’s launch, in some configuration or another. The difference in software sales contributions is going to be dramatically different as a result of that. And despite folks getting into the minutia of its overall contribution to sales, mentioning Kart is only to highlight that, yes, bundling does have an impact on a final sales figure, even when muted by diminished availability.

And despite claims seemingly made to the contrary in this thread, a free game with purchase can and does induce a purchase, even in people who wouldn’t have considered buying the bundled game separately otherwise. Because as insanely popular as Mario Kart is, the game is not 1-to-1 with console purchases (at least outside of Canada, anyways LOL), so there are people for whom it holds diminished value and might only take it if it’s offered free. If this tactic didn’t work, marketing people wouldn’t use it, it’s that simple.
Two things wrong here:
1) These people that purchased this bundle are obviously interested in Mario Kart hence the purchase of this bundle which isn't widely available because we are talking Black Friday and a few other days like Mario day in March of the bundled consoles availability. So assuming the majority of these people would in fact have purchased a Switch and this game with aggressive price cuts separately is hardly unreasonable.

2) You are assuming more aggressive pricing doesn't make Mario Kart more attractive to current Switch owners that haven't purchased the game. That bundle is only attractive to people that haven't purchased a Switch. People that have purchased a Switch would find more attractive pricing of the game more desirable.

That's the issue with speculation, you can't close off other possibilities. All of those people that bought the game bundled don't have to buy separately in an alternative scenario but the game could replace them by targeting current Switch owners that haven't purchased the game and are attracted to the more aggressive pricing.
If you look back, you were actually arguing that MK8DX would land at the same sales number or greater without bundling (because you were arguing it was not statistically certain that it wouldn’t). In order for that to be true, YES, every person who bought MK8DX in a bundle would absolutely be required to buy it to equal the same volume.

This is because in the same time period these bundles have been sold, MK8DX is already discounted on a yearly basis at least twice per year (around 30% off). So for the folks looking for it at a discount, that discount already exists. If you expect lower than that, it tells me you forgot we're talking about Nintendo.

And, as mentioned above, "discount" isn't the same as "free". Never has been, never will be. You will always get more people to buy something regardless of interest in the software bundled when they effectively pay nothing extra to get it compared to what is typically available for sale, a game-free console.
 
If you look back, you were actually arguing that MK8DX would land at the same sales number or greater without bundling (because you were arguing it was not statistically certain that it wouldn’t). In order for that to be true, YES, every person who bought MK8DX in a bundle would absolutely be required to buy it to equal the same volume.

This is because in the same time period these bundles have been sold, MK8DX is already discounted on a yearly basis at least twice per year (around 30% off). So for the folks looking for it at a discount, that discount already exists. If you expect lower than that, it tells me you forgot we're talking about Nintendo.

And, as mentioned above, "discount" isn't the same as "free". Never has been, never will be. You will always get more people to buy something regardless of interest in the software bundled when they effectively pay nothing extra to get it compared to what is typically available for sale, a game-free console.
Yes I'm arguing it's a possibility because you insist on pushing your speculation as fact. You have again made the same mistake or just completely flawed in your logic/analysis. Everyone that bought MK8 Deluxe in a console does NOT have to buy the game separately in this alternative scenario because many of those people would be replaced by other consumers being attracted to a more diserable price tag. A 30% discount on an old game (over 10 years) is hardly much. Bigger discounts would attract more people along with many of the consumers that purchased the bundle in scenario A and would purchase the game separately in the alternative scenario. I would also like to add that it is pretty dishonest to act like because Nintendo hasn't done deeper discounts this gen is proof they wouldn't. They have in the past and maybe hasn't because Switch is in route to becoming the highest seller in history, so why would they cut? That same logic should apply to the hardware and yet we saw when Nintendo isn't doing so hot, they will deliver emergency price cuts (3DS).

You don't get to put restrictions (suggesting Nintendo only does 30% discounts) on other possibilities/speculation. Obviously Nintendo is more interested in limiting their price cuts and would rather mass bundle. We are simply speculating, you suggested the game needed the mass bundles to reach the heights it did, I simply gave you an alternative scenario where the game may have sold even more. If Nintendo was focused on selling the game as much as possible then cutting the price would do a better job than mass bundles. Mass bundles are only desirable to people not in the ecosystem, while aggressive price cuts are desirable to all the people that are already in the ecosystem.

For the third paragraph, I'm not following. Discounts dont have to be free, they still lower the barrier of entry. The price being lower makes it an easier pill to swallow. Are you talking about the bundles? Are you saying just because people purchased the bundles doesn't mean they will purchase the game seperately in this alternative scenario? True but then again these are limited bundles and not widely available. So these consumers were either waiting on a deal or interested in Mario Kart. Regardless, those people could still be replaced by more aggressive pricing of the game attracting the people that haven't purchased the game but own a Switch along with all of those people that got a Switch on sale and are interested in Mario Kart and see a cheaper price. You are still over looking how many people could be interested in Mario Kart but not at a 30% discount. How about a selects line?
 
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