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Intel is laying off over 15,000 employees and will stop ‘non-essential work’
That’s a lot of layoffs.
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[The Verge] Intel is laying off over 15,000 employees and will stop ‘non-essential work’
- Thread starter Joseki
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It's unlikely for that to be a major factor, especially as only became public knowledge very recently, but it sure isn't helping them.
And considering Gamersnexus posted a short notice about a big report coming soon, the whole incident is looking to become worse before it gets better.
15 000 people out of jobs, with a snap of one's fingers. This is so unimaginable.
Capitalism is toxic, but people refuse to accept that and look for alternatives. Of course, rich people abuse their immense power to keep the current system in place. Sickening.
Capitalism is toxic, but people refuse to accept that and look for alternatives. Of course, rich people abuse their immense power to keep the current system in place. Sickening.
That’s like a full NBA arena of layoffs, wow.
Very unlikely. It's more just another bullet to an already riddled body.
As I work in this sector, Intel collapsing is going to cause a lot of things to move and flow. We might even get more fab work!
To be blunt, no.
That is a problem that is unrelated to this. It is a sign that Intel might be moving too quickly if Q&A on something like that is skipped, which is does sound like.
That is the thing, I have been watching the chatter around semi-conductors for a bit and I don't think that Intel is collapsing. Not with the way that they have been building capacity.
What they have been doing is changing, Pat has been rather clear since taking the CEO chair... he wants in on the foundry business. It makes no sense to watch TSMC and Samsung take all that money, Intel should be in there and should respond to the market. He has been stuck will ALOT of clean up since.
Notably, Intel Foundry Services is one of the few things that has been making the dosh in the company but Intel need more capacity to serve IFS. So Intel's been building and spending. I always figured that there was going to be some pain involved because the way that Pat was shifting the company, rather rapidly, it seemed unavoidable. It's just sad to hear folks lost jobs over it.
You likely will.
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This is what it looks like when a company doesn’t believe that it has to compete or change due to over a decade of a strong market lock. When the time came to do it, it was bound to have a lot of expenses to cover and not enough revenue to cover it. And the labour force is always seen as the most expendable.
To be honest, the fab-less companies being a thing took Intel for a loop because they just wanted a business to build chips that THEY designed, not Intel's. It was a massive shift in how these companies related to semi-conductors, it is basically a commodity. Intel didn't operate like that, it's technology was the whole experience and could never be though as just building blocks to other designs. You see, Intel was vertically integrated....
So long as there wasn't a competitor that would build the fabs needed and out engineer them, Intel was fine... It took about 40 years.... but they are here now. They have dictated the market for a long time, to the point that Intel is chasing them.
Can we trade the CEO for these people’s jobs back. Throw in some upper management if the numbers don’t quite work. They should be out on their asses yet they won’t.
Intel’s obsession with trying to beat AMD who leapfrogged them and never looked back is costing them big time.
Absolutely horrible news.
Absolutely horrible news.
IMO The only way to drasticly change the system big change at governements.
At least from countries in the european union or in the US.
Otherwise it's always the same things.
Leaders of these compagnies will continue to play the game as they are not the ones loosing that much.
The reason for Intels problem is that they are the competition. The alternative for restructuring the company would be to continue producing a product that no one wants which is a waste of resources.
My home country Sweden has the perfect company to look at when you do that, Facit. They made mechanical calculators, the board realised that to save the company they needed to switch over to electronic calculators but to afford that they needed to fire the guy making the mechanical stuff. The unions prevented them from doing so, ending with the death of the whole company and everyone loosing their jobs.
Capitalism is brutal but the destruction of one company is often due to the rise of another. The alternative is that shit that is not needed is kept in production, which is the waste we see in every planned economy that have ever been tried.
Can't see this level of cuts without quite a strategic change. Wouldn't surprise me if they double down on B2B and reduce their consumer development.
i wouldn't want to be intel. tsmc ate them for lunch. their ceo keeps talking bollocks, he thinks his leaving caused them to fall off, and now that he is back they will surge back. except that isnt happening. now he has a huge defective cpu scandal on his hands too.
the usa govt spent (wasted) 50 billions to supposedly make more chip production in usa, like most govt planning that is failing.
the usa govt spent (wasted) 50 billions to supposedly make more chip production in usa, like most govt planning that is failing.
The whole Stock performance in US is taking insane beating. It is crazy to see how much tech industry is falling. And now this? Going to be really hard to see many investor being positive on this business there.
Gamersnexus first video is out. No blowouts in reporting but more of a discussion of the timeline and the various parts of the 13 and 14th gen issues. They will have testing later.
I think some big points in the video are that it’s clear Intel knew something about this problem well over a year ago, as far back as 2022 but tried to brush it under the rug and move goal posts. They have been editing their statements which also goes back to the oxidation issue. They originally stated wasn’t related is now a tiny bit related according to Intel. By editing their posts they also avoid the media being able to properly report on these things while Intel can act transparent.
It also outlines that they have been very aggressive to consumers and partners, not wanting to admit any fault and making it hard for customers who paid for quality.
Steve also pointed out that intel’s default settings are very confusing and postulates it is to not have anything nailed down to avoid blame/avoid accusations of low performance in safe regions.
Really gotta praise GamersNexus here. They've been doing a lot of good actual journalism in the past months, really going head to head with these big companies and seeking answers and pressing issues. Didn't expect that when I started watching their youtube-channel for PC component information.
I wonder how Intel can come back from this. At least among the more hardcore PC-crowd, Intel should be absolutely burnt for now. Good for AMD.
I wonder how Intel can come back from this. At least among the more hardcore PC-crowd, Intel should be absolutely burnt for now. Good for AMD.
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I have used Intel CPUs for the past 15 years, but after my 11th gen I'm gonna definitely upgrade to a AMD CPU.
The destroyed all the consumer trust they built over decades, their decisions and comunications to me are in full "scam" territory.
Welp. And i am seeing my Intel Core i9 chip for my brand new laptop that i just bought kek. I am doomed.
AMD has never been the competition, they just learned to leverage the competition. The target is TSMC, it should have been Intel's target from the beginning. They have only just begun to wake up to this reality and adjust to it, sadly it's come too late for those employees. As much as the current management has to make this cut, this is the result of a long-standing failure by the previous management. One that they are beginning to correct.
That's "ironic"... A few months ago the Biden administration's CHIPS Act gave Intel an $8.5 billion gift, $11 billion in favorable loans, and $25 billion in tax cuts, on the promise to hire 10,000 people.
The bigger reason behind these low margins & layoff is the "decoupling" (export controls closing the biggest market) from China. Others will follow.
The bigger reason behind these low margins & layoff is the "decoupling" (export controls closing the biggest market) from China. Others will follow.
That's "ironic"... A few months ago the Biden administration's CHIPS Act gave Intel an $8.5 billion gift, $11 billion in favorable loans, and $25 billion in tax cuts, on the promise to hire 10,000 people.
The bigger reason behind these low margins & layoff is the "decoupling" (export controls closing the biggest market) from China. Others will follow.
This decoupling is going cause even bigger lay off all around the industry in US as not only US company is going to lost a big money from second biggest market. They have triggered big moves from China to be self sufficient which in future will create direct competitors against them.
Global South for example will not be very kind toward US sanction policy there.
Damage control?
They just released the following PR:
Intel announced that its Intel 18A-based products - the Panther Lake (for future AI PC CPUs) and Clearwater Forest (for servers) platforms - have entered a new phase of development and have already supported system power-on and startup operational. These milestones were achieved less than two quarters after tape-out, meeting the company's roadmap to begin production in 2025. The company also announced that its first external customer is expected to tape-out the Intel 18A in the first half of next year.
Kevin O'Buckley, senior vice president and general manager of Foundry Services di Intel:
"We are pioneering multi-system foundry technologies for the AI era, providing a comprehensive set of innovations essential to the next generation of products for Intel and our foundry customers. We are encouraged by our progress and we are working closely with customers to bring Intel 18A to market in 2025"
They just released the following PR:
Intel announced that its Intel 18A-based products - the Panther Lake (for future AI PC CPUs) and Clearwater Forest (for servers) platforms - have entered a new phase of development and have already supported system power-on and startup operational. These milestones were achieved less than two quarters after tape-out, meeting the company's roadmap to begin production in 2025. The company also announced that its first external customer is expected to tape-out the Intel 18A in the first half of next year.
Kevin O'Buckley, senior vice president and general manager of Foundry Services di Intel:
"We are pioneering multi-system foundry technologies for the AI era, providing a comprehensive set of innovations essential to the next generation of products for Intel and our foundry customers. We are encouraged by our progress and we are working closely with customers to bring Intel 18A to market in 2025"
Yes but probably also trying to show the market that they are launching AI products that can be considered vs NVIDIA solutions.
Nothing weird about the timing. After a disappointing report, not to mention a stock plunge, it's normal to put out a PR about promising developments in the company. It's standard practice, and also doesn't actually mean much.
its weird because I also read a pre made PC seller, puget the name maybe? Reported lower failure rates among intel chips than AMD ones recently. In fact they found higher failure rates among older intel gen processors than the ones undergoing the controversy. It's like covid data, it's conflicting enough eventually I dont know what to believe.
But also big caveat, the maker used and manually applied all default (aka safe) intel recommended CPU settings, where many motherboards upclock and push limits to gain a bit more performance and look good in reviews.
I havent dug in but I'm not sure it's not mostly a PR problem. In which case Intel is more unlucky than at fault. But it hits them all the same.
It's just a really bad storm for Intel right now. They also claim basically their 18A process will save them, but it's so hard to actually believe they will execute on anything.
I also never really liked when ATI merged with AMD, I had wish ATI remained it's own company but today it seems like a good move and gives AMD some backstop and two markets.
PR statement to damage control is all company way to go when shit happen so it is normal stuff.
I’m talking about their CPUs
My point is this.... This isn't about CPUs, not directly. TSMC makes CPUs, it's in the name. They are the manufacturer, and it's is their technology that AMD, APPLE, Qualcomm and others are leveraging because TSMC has build this over the last 40 years. It's position in the market isn't completely by chance. Intel is only just responding to a market that doesn't see it's product as the whole solution, just another part to add. It is telling that the one of the few places of profit that Intel has currently is the Foundry Services business that they built to compete with that.
Gamers think that this is a tit-for-tat competition and it is, just not where they are looking. It's not about AMD. It's about semi-conductors, something that the previous management didn't see a priority and the current one does. That oversight of the previous management cost those folks their livelihoods, that is what this cut is about. In the grand scheme of this, AMD doesn't matter by much other than the fact that they are leveraging what TSMC offers.
You’re trying to draw comparison that does not work, nor does it even matter because I never even mentioned that. It doesn’t matter if they’re competing with TSMC on the manufacturing side because they only do it for themselves they don’t do anyone else, TSMC does it for everybody And anyone willing to pay. There’s no correlation between what I’m saying and what you’re trying to argue, point-blank. You can argue if you want about competing with TSMC on their nodes and process or whatever but I never argued anything about that, so it’s not even relevant to my comment.
The end user doesn’t care what it’s manufactured on, just which one is the better one or which is is showing better results in what they are looking for.
It matters when that is where the performance is coming from. AMD doesn't make chips, they are fab-less. They design them, and point to TSMC to make them. On top of that, TSMC can up-sell technologies that they have developed to it's clients. AMD is a client. AMD's 3D Cache (the X3D chips) is one of those. It uses TSMC's stacking technology, which they have a patent for.
That is not the only thing that AMD is using given that since the Zen Architecture started, they have been using the foundry (along with GlobalFoundries until Zen3). They are far from the only ones doing that.
Like or not, this is the game being played and it is a game that Intel has been losing for while because they didn't think that they had to play it. Pat Gelsinger thinks that they do and so far, he has been right. That said, this redirection do not come without sacrifice, not at the pace they are doing it at, because the previous management locked in it's choices that kept it from competing. (Like updating a single node for nine years and calling that "leading", the 10nm fiasco, etc.)
To put this into context, consider this... with the way that AMD does designs, needing chiplets (Intel call theirs Tiles) to hold the main logic and IO dies with a high-performance "fabric" interconnect connecting them for the CPUs. It is very possible to cut out TSMC if you can provide something similar. Pat would welcome AMD's business to it's foundry, if AMD wanted too.... but why would they want to leave the leading foundry, where they get the node and performance gains from?
It's not just about "bigger number, better" and that has caught out Intel for just as long.... because again, the game has changed and, for a while, Intel didn't notice. If Intel want's to be the leader again, they have to beat TSMC not AMD and they aren't, for now.
It matters alot, because Intel lost the engineering advantage it had years ago. They have been playing catch up since.
Pat wants it back and first step to doing that is knowing what they are up against.... which mean that they have to accept that they don't lead the market and they haven't in years. TSMC does and they define it with the bouns of very few foundries (namely Samsung) having kept up. They also need to know whom the oppoent is, which again... Isn't AMD. How can they be if you want AMD's business? When AMD's advantage is mostly due to it's contract with TSMC?
The comparison you are making doesn't really work when AMD isn't the target, it's made irrelivant by that fact. The reality is AMD isn't the business Intel is compeating against, TSMC is and Pat has made that abundantly clear.
I get that gamers just want "better" but that has several metics to it which isn't about just Speed and Power. IPC matters alot, efficiency matters alot, and the relationship between these and other variables matter a ton. Guess whom can (and has been) deliver that.... in any chip that they can make.... for any ISA they can build for....
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