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The Steam Deck - What kind of market performance do we expect from Valve's portable gaming PC?

FyreWulff

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It seems kind of odd to me, that Valve wouldn't make their own anti-cheat middleware solution, and offer it for free to game software developers. That way the could use it outside the Steam environment if they want, but when they bring their games to Steam it would make it easier for games to hook into native APIs instead of the hodgepodge of look alike might be compliant Windows APIs on Steam OS. A whole suite of platform agnostic APIs would be ideal, but that seems unlikely, but a few that work anywhere the developer wants, should be beneficial to all parties.
They did - that's VAC (Valve Anti Cheat). It's so worthless even the Steam developer documentation pretty much tells you to use a third party solution.

Reminder that Valve only made VAC after they -forced to do so because they tried to "you're paid in exposure" to Punkbuster, who pulled their support of Team Fortress Classic, so Valve had to make VAC to replace Punkbuster because the game started getting mauled by cheaters again and PB called Valve's bluff. Valve has only updated it just enough to get the low level script kiddies out of games but anything advanced still requires manual reporting and someone doing the ban.
 

Pooroomoo

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With Nintendo's next console seemingly being further and further away, I may end up being in the market for this. As long as many games work well on this, bulk is not seriously an issue, as I rarely take my Switch outside the house (and it's not like my Switch will disappear the moment I buy this..). My guess is there are more than a few people like me, with the main issue being availability.
 

KtSlime

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They did - that's VAC (Valve Anti Cheat). It's so worthless even the Steam developer documentation pretty much tells you to use a third party solution.

Reminder that Valve only made VAC after they -forced to do so because they tried to "you're paid in exposure" to Punkbuster, who pulled their support of Team Fortress Classic, so Valve had to make VAC to replace Punkbuster because the game started getting mauled by cheaters again and PB called Valve's bluff. Valve has only updated it just enough to get the low level script kiddies out of games but anything advanced still requires manual reporting and someone doing the ban.
I never looked into it, so I guess it makes sense that they would come up for some solution in TF, but from the sounds of it it's as if it is abandoned. I'm sure they probably have some reason to not heavily invest in it, but I think it would be beneficial if they made a competitive one. Surely it makes more sense than reverse engineering a lot of complex arcane APIs which are pretty much exclusively used for that purpose for gaming.
 

FyreWulff

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I never looked into it, so I guess it makes sense that they would come up for some solution in TF, but from the sounds of it it's as if it is abandoned. I'm sure they probably have some reason to not heavily invest in it, but I think it would be beneficial if they made a competitive one. Surely it makes more sense than reverse engineering a lot of complex arcane APIs which are pretty much exclusively used for that purpose for gaming.

They do sort of update it but all efforts around VAC are mostly geared towards CS:GO, as that's their current money-maker. Every other game that uses it has their VAC feature updates largely abandoned.

And yeah, you would think they would make a competitive one as part of selling their Steam stack to developers, but a lot of Steam features are honestly made with "how does this benefit Valve?" first before "how does this benefit (non-Valve dev) or the consumer?", which is how we ended up where EA had refunds on Origin years before Valve finally stopped fighting in court against refunds and implemented them.
 
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Initial previews seem positive but I am still super worried its capabilities are over hyped in some quarters which could make for a launch focused on what it can’t do rather than what it can,
 
Some light comments from DF -



Q&A is quite good and technical.

Worryingly they have it but they are barred from even doing the minimum of the previewers so far - instead they have to discuss other peoples tests...they do a really job though, have to skirt things but I would say their main impression is mixed.
  • Slightly better benchmarks than they expected and better than competitors
  • Concerns around Battery & Power [Think frame caps would be good and worse than expected/listed by Steam]
  • Poor Screen Calibration [No complaints on resolution but as other previews have shown the results are very poor - comparable to a cheap Android tablet]
  • Good quality design/hardware other than the screen [Very Positive here]
Personally not too surprised; I am hoping they have something like Nvidia optimisation for settings but personally I would want console like performance mode where I don't need to worry about it. It should be automated imo. I do understand why they are going for the 'all in' approach but its just going to be very messy.

Really not alleviating my fears and I think I am very much in the mindset that the launch could be a shit show - again, because peoples expectations remain out of whack. My biggest issue is the screen and use case - for me it should have been high quality screen, more curation of games/optimisation and a focus on bringing PC focused games to portable and indie games.

Reminding me more of the Steam Controller honestly. Trying to be everything and not realising you need to make . With the screen quality, the OLED wins for any lower performance games and I'd argue the quality seems good enough to rebuy the game on that hardware - and for high performance its just going to kill battery.

I would have announced the games running on it and worked with devs to announce new games on a monthly basis. Valve should have a benchmark for quality on their own hardware.

EDITED for formating.
 
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cw_sasuke

Member
I think the people getting a Deck at launch or in the first couple months are hardcore users that will have very realistic expectations about the Device and its offerings. The people who are shocked or surprised by what i would consider common knowledge probably wont get their hands on the device this year and by that time things will look quite a bit different in terms of compatibility and OS feature set.

We are still around two weeks from launch away and i assume there will be one big final OS update, so a lot of current impressions might be outdated for people getting their own Deck starting March.

I wouldnt worry too much about the Deck, its obviously not gonna reach some of the extreme high expectations some members have written down in this thread but its gonna do what its supposed to do for Valve and the portable gaming PC market.
 

cw_sasuke

Member
Polish (P)Review/Impressions on the Deck + reddit summary


* Good performance
* Dying Light 2 is stable and works well
* Much larger than switch (duh)
* Wrists got sore after 50 minutes of playing in bed
* Dying Light 2 battery lasted 1 hour 50 minutes of playtime.
* This is a PC device, playing some games fully designed for M+K games could not be optimal
* Can't use on-screen software keyboard in Skyrim, he needed to use physical one in order to progress
* Total War is playable but was not comfortable to play
* Hearts of Iron is "fit" for Steam Deck and has some custom bindings for touchpads
* Super Hot is also fit and works well
* You can bind back buttons
* Some games don't support touch controls (touchscreen) well as well as some text can be hard to read depending on a game.
* Quick summary of Steam Deck Verified program
* If Deck gathers considerable user base, developers will pay more attention to handheld support
* Not all games work on Deck but the price is very attractive compared to gaming PCs
* Can it replace a desktop gaming PC? No, its a whole different form factor and consumer experience
* Good portable device, but Switch is smaller and offers more portability e.g. for public transport, whereas Deck is chonky and can't be carried in a pocket.
* Very versatile and offers many capabilities, especially in terms of performance, but in terms of comfort he rates it 6/10
* It's a better investment if you like games designed with a controller in mind
* Cities Skylines and Euro Truck Simulator didn't want to work for some reason *(which is strange, considering that both games are Linux native... Ed.)*


 

cw_sasuke

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So Valve started sending out confirmation email to people that preordered the Deck - based on what im seeing so far the initial shipment numbers seem to be extremely low. Plenty of people that were initially slated for December - before the delay - havent recieved their mail yet.

Their initial shipment on a global scale might be far less than the 50k units i was expecting. Considering their initial shipment size and the current chip shortage even hitting 1m in the first year seem quite optimistic. I can understand why they never shared how many units they can provide at launch.

PS. IGNs Review in Progress, for anyone interested
 

MysticGon

Member
Vavle's purchasing power is much less than that of Microsoft and Sony. If Sony is struggling to meet their quotas I doubt Valve will have much chance. The issue is compounded by the weird phenomena of riding a wave of positive news pre-launch only to crash ashore to the cold hard reality of basing your OS on Linux and 1 hour battery lives.😞
 

Tokuiten

Infected with 'Xenoblade'. 御免なさい🙇‍♀️
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So Valve started sending out confirmation email to people that preordered the Deck - based on what im seeing so far the initial shipment numbers seem to be extremely low. Plenty of people that were initially slated for December - before the delay - havent recieved their mail yet.

Their initial shipment on a global scale might be far less than the 50k units i was expecting. Considering their initial shipment size and the current chip shortage even hitting 1m in the first year seem quite optimistic. I can understand why they never shared how many units they can provide at launch.

PS. IGNs Review in Progress, for anyone interested

Watched Phawx' videos and some. I think I'm about to cancel my pre-order (yes, thank me :p). I love most of what I hear/see, but I've always said there's one K.O. criteria, and that's fan noise. That issue was mentioned earlier this month in the 2-3 exclusive previews, and now both Digital Foundry and IGN mention it to, talking about how it's very noticeable, very high pitched. I'm sure there will be a fan control in future updates, but that's not something that's going to go away fully, demanding games cause fan movement, the end. And with that, I think I'm out. I wish all remaining buyers a nice launch, and hopefully I'll join you guys with the Steam Deck 2 whenever it launches :)

Edit:

That said, there's not reason to cancel immediately ^^ I'll watch more impression, from users especially. Can always cancel later.
 

MysticGon

Member
And with that, I think I'm out. I wish all remaining buyers a nice launch, and hopefully I'll join you guys with the Steam Deck 2 whenever it launches :)
Same for me because apparently a whole host of Japanese games have compatibility issues and that miniscule battery life.

But hopefully you won't have long to wait.

 

Tokuiten

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Same for me because apparently a whole host of Japanese games have compatibility issues and that miniscule battery life.

But hopefully you won't have long to wait.

I saw that news yesterday and it's actually part of what soured me a little. If Valve talks about Steam Deck 2 now already, they better tell us what time frame they're planning for. With consoles from Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft I know that I'll get at least 5 years before a successor launches. With PC-devices, it could as well be next year when Steam Deck 2 launches. Probably not, but damn, Valve, don't talk about Steam Deck and then not include something like "but we won't talk about that for the next 2-3 years". Ugh :/

My three big reasons for probably cancelling my pre-order:

1. Fan-noise
2. Small battery where a bigger one could have fit inside without any issue according to tech experts. Why the hell save on battery costs, Valve?!
3. Steam Deck 2 already being talked about

But as I said: Let's wait for user impressions. Maybe my #1 is not as much of an issue with most units and reviewers just had bad batch luck.
 

ILikeFeet

Member
I saw that news yesterday and it's actually part of what soured me a little. If Valve talks about Steam Deck 2 now already, they better tell us what time frame they're planning for. With consoles from Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft I know that I'll get at least 5 years before a successor launches. With PC-devices, it could as well be next year when Steam Deck 2 launches. Probably not, but damn, Valve, don't talk about Steam Deck and then not include something like "but we won't talk about that for the next 2-3 years". Ugh :/

My three big reasons for probably cancelling my pre-order:

1. Fan-noise
2. Small battery where a bigger one could have fit inside without any issue according to tech experts. Why the hell save on battery costs, Valve?!
3. Steam Deck 2 already being talked about

But as I said: Let's wait for user impressions. Maybe my #1 is not as much of an issue with most units and reviewers just had bad batch luck.
small battery can be countered by lowering settings and capping frame rate. Digital Foundry went from 1:30 to 2:00 in God of War this way. would help with fan noise too

that said, if Steam Deck 2 is intended to improve on any of these points, we might have to wait for 5nm APUs for that. which means that $400 starting price (lel) is out the window
 

Tokuiten

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small battery can be countered by lowering settings and capping frame rate. Digital Foundry went from 1:30 to 2:00 in God of War this way. would help with fan noise too

that said, if Steam Deck 2 is intended to improve on any of these points, we might have to wait for 5nm APUs for that. which means that $400 starting price (lel) is out the window
With a bigger battery, you could lower settings, too, and play for even longer.

But fan noise is the big one for me. User impressions. Waiting for them. :>
 

cw_sasuke

Member
It def. feels like waiting for a Deck 2 might not be the dumbest decision.

Played the Triangle Strategy demo yesterday and i started wondering if i even need the Deck this early considering what is releasing on Switch this year. Might put that money towards software and get the SD2 a couple years from now once the public beta phase is over.
 

Tokuiten

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It def. feels like waiting for a Deck 2 might not be the dumbest decision.

Played the Triangle Strategy demo yesterday and i started wondering if i even need the Deck this early considering what is releasing on Switch this year. Might put that money towards software and get the SD2 a couple years from now once the public beta phase is over.
Ikr?

Of course, I'm doing a lot of coping right now, lol, but between the shortcomings of the Deck I mentioned and Switch about to have its best year ever, it really seems like, for me, it's not necessary to get a Steam Deck now. Of course, it all depends on when the Steam Deck 2 is supposed to launch. If it takes 5 years, yeah, I'm gonna be somewhat salty over me cancelled pre-order. But if it's only 2-3 years, I might be fine with Switch for the time being.

Edit: With that said, I still hope SD is a massive success and people who aren't as sensible to fan noise as I am will have a lot of fun with this device. :)
 

cw_sasuke

Member
Ikr?

Of course, I'm doing a lot of coping right now, lol, but between the shortcomings of the Deck I mentioned and Switch about to have its best year ever, it really seems like, for me, it's not necessary to get a Steam Deck now. Of course, it all depends on when the Steam Deck 2 is supposed to launch. If it takes 5 years, yeah, I'm gonna be somewhat salty over me cancelled pre-order. But if it's only 2-3 years, I might be fine with Switch for the time being.

Edit: With that said, I still hope SD is a massive success and people who aren't as sensible to fan noise as I am will have a lot of fun with this device. :)
Oh yeah for sure, i hope the Deck is gonna be a success and based on it being sold out and the hardcore portable PC audience being really hyped for it i think Valve is gonna make it work. They are gonna built a really nice foundation for future Deck iterations, i dont think the Deck and Valves commitment to the portable PC space + SteamOS is going anywhere.

I might get an email next week, so ill keep my preorder for sure and likely still gonna buy it but i dont think i REALLY need it now. Not when it can be this busy on mobile+ Switch with more than enough to play.

That being said kinda not a fan of them talking about a potential SD2 the second they have shipped out the first one, ofc we knew it was going to happen but i kinda wish they would have waited a bit before bringing this up - when so many people are still waiting for their orders to be confirmed and fullfilled.

Wouldnt even need a full SD2 but a revisions with an OLED screen, bigger battery and a more streamlined look would already be great - especially if it doesnt cost much more. 2 years from now i would expect a Switch 2 to be released and if that system has full BC, DLSS,4K docked i probably get that system and never look back tbh.

Watching countless of SD reviews yesterday really made me appreciate the Switch as a system and plattform planned for a late 2016 release launching early 2017. We had the conversation earlier in this thread where you would say that the SteamDeck was straight up a better product than the Switch, while i arguing that its not that simple - based on reviews its fair to say that the Switch in many ways is still gonna be a better plattform, for a large mayority of the audience.

Just going through the first couple pages on this thread is really telling, some expectations were incredibly high and something that might be even optimistic for a SD2 when it releases a couple years from now.
 
I wouldn't cancel preorder.
These machines will be very high demand and very supply constrained for the rest of the year.

So I'm planning to try mine out for a month or so, once I finally have my number called. See how much I game on it, try it out as a Linux PC as well. As a PC,.hopefully my wireless keyboard and mouse sync up effortlessly.

Worst case, I do t think its for me and so I sell it to someone else at market rate. That will likely be at least full MSRP, despite being lightly used.

Heck, looking at ebay, resell prices on these could be like PS5.
 

Tokuiten

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Heck, looking at ebay, resell prices on these could be like PS5.
Honestly, I thought about that. Steam Decks on ebay are basically selling for twice the price. But I feel like my karma would become seriously bad from doing that, so I'll probably rather cancel.

I will wait for user impressions this week, but then I see something like yesterday's review from The Verge and ... I mean, if you're fine with such fan noise, more power to you, but I find that shocking:
 
Honestly, I thought about that. Steam Decks on ebay are basically selling for twice the price. But I feel like my karma would become seriously bad from doing that, so I'll probably rather cancel.
O this thought I understand very well, as it occurs to me too. The Golden Rule, right.

This is how I think about it atm:

- Im not a scalper. "I have legitimate interest in the device for my own use" VS "LOL Im makin bank on this suckazzz"

- If it ends up I sell it, I would actually be open to selling for the exact price I paid (plus tax and shipping and insurance) *If I knew the person wasn't a reseller*.
But without a way to know that, the fairest option becomes to sell at around market rate. If this was an in-person swap, say responding to a local OfferUp posting, and I liked the
person and felt like they were not a reseller, I might still discount it heavily.
Hmm ... on that note, in the event I'm a seller and prices are kerazy, I might post here or on Famiboards in case a fellow member wants to take it for a whirl.

- If I am the seller, at least I know I am honest about what I am selling; Since its used, I state "This is lightly used". If I spill boba tea in there, I state "btw spilled boba". If they ask me what I didn't like about it, I tell em, etc.
Obviously the buyer doesn't know me, but at least I know me, and one more honest seller is at least a teensy weensy bit better for the world.

That said, yea, I am worried about the fan noise. But ESID (every sitch is different) and I will have to experience personally. Battery life is def another!
FWIW, I had similar concerns with Switch on battery life before I decided to cop a v1 back in 2017. Turns out, despite being a notable step down from DS and 3DS , the 3-4 hours was fine for me!
 
Is the fan noise due to a crummy fan or something or is it just an indicator how much active cooling the device needs?
The latter I believe. The chip in this thing is allowed to run at its full 15W power draw portably (vs the much cooler/"weaker" switch which both draws less power overall and runs in mobile perf profile).

However, following impressions and reviews the "threshold of hell-naw" is different for everyone. One thing is clear: Its gonna be louder than even a v1 switch!
 

gibordep

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If steam puts gamepass on it, Steamdeck could be the handheld MS never had. I made a reservation a couple days ago, I count to have one next year. My expectation it 's that MS and steam put gamepass on it (the alternative is to see how it run on windows) and run retroarch.
 

cw_sasuke

Member
This is the first time this happened to my knowledge, but Nintendo blocked a Switch emulation guide on SteamDeck video by Phawx.

It seems like they are gonna intervene in mayor attempts of Valve and others to promote/sell this is a Switch to play Switch backups and/or pirated copies.

It makes sense, even though its happening faster than expected - guess they are sending the message early. They were okay with these other chine PC manufactorors and Switch emulation on those devices, but the SteamDeck seems to be hitting a bit too close to home.
 

Tokuiten

Infected with 'Xenoblade'. 御免なさい🙇‍♀️
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This is the first time this happened to my knowledge, but Nintendo blocked a Switch emulation guide on SteamDeck video by Phawx.

It seems like they are gonna intervene in mayor attempts of Valve and others to promote/sell this is a Switch to play Switch backups and/or pirated copies.

It makes sense, even though its happening faster than expected - guess they are sending the message early. They were okay with these other chine PC manufactorors and Switch emulation on those devices, but the SteamDeck seems to be hitting a bit too close to home.
So much for "Steam Deck is no competition for Switch" ;)

(I know, sales-wise it isn't ^^)
 
If steam puts gamepass on it, Steamdeck could be the handheld MS never had. I made a reservation a couple days ago, I count to have one next year. My expectation it 's that MS and steam put gamepass on it (the alternative is to see how it run on windows) and run retroarch.
I don't see why MS goes the Linux route personally - they are in a position to produce their own Xbox Handheld even if its a more premium product (other premium handhelds continue to succeed).
 

gibordep

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I don't see why MS goes the Linux route personally - they are in a position to produce their own Xbox Handheld even if its a more premium product (other premium handhelds continue to succeed).
With proton they will not have to port the games for linux, but I know it's difficult to put gamepass on steamdeck. I only paid the 4€ and now I will wait to see if one of those turns good. Gamepass running on steam or Steam deck running windows.
A MS handheld would be a dream for me, xcloud for me it´s not good enough, sometimes its unplayable on phone (on console or PC it's good, but I don't need it there)
 

Agent42

Member
Ikr?

Of course, I'm doing a lot of coping right now, lol, but between the shortcomings of the Deck I mentioned and Switch about to have its best year ever, it really seems like, for me, it's not necessary to get a Steam Deck now. Of course, it all depends on when the Steam Deck 2 is supposed to launch. If it takes 5 years, yeah, I'm gonna be somewhat salty over me cancelled pre-order. But if it's only 2-3 years, I might be fine with Switch for the time being.

Edit: With that said, I still hope SD is a massive success and people who aren't as sensible to fan noise as I am will have a lot of fun with this device. :)
I will maintain my pre-order. I love portable and miss the sony portable, Steam deck may occupy this void.
 

Tokuiten

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Lol, behold my big brain move:

- cancelled my 512GB pre-order today
- ordered a Switch OLED
- pre-ordered the 64GB Steam Deck just now xD

My reasoning: Switch is having its 2nd best year ever in 2022 and enjoying Xenoblade 3 on the bigger, better OLED-screen makes sense. By ordering the Steam Deck again now, I'm probably very far back in the waiting line, probably some time in 2023. My hope is that later Steam Deck-production units will have different fan configurations, thus getting rid of the often reported noticeable fan noise of the units being shopped right now. And since SD card speed has turned out to be surprisingly fast and I don't care about anti-gloss that much, I save a bunch of money with the 64GB version.

I'm still convinced that the Steam Deck is an amazing device, but for me personally the "wait and see"-approach makes more sense for now. Valve probably won't have any trouble selling out anyway.
 
I will maintain my pre-order. I love portable and miss the sony portable, Steam deck may occupy this void.
I'm curious what the PSP line provided for you that Switch does not?
Is it the:

- Sony first-party ... which Deck will kiiiinda have

- purpose built Third-party exclusive of the level of those sweet Metal Gear PSP games ... which I don't think are coming back

- Standout Jrpg support ... Which Switch largely has (I say tentatively given recent notable exception)

- focus on media and non-game usability ... Me personally, the Deck capacity as Linux PC is intriguing
 

MysticGon

Member
It's good news that Vavle is doubling the number of shipments going forward. Deck is clearly a different animal compared to the Steam Machines that have come before.

The market and press are not tired of it yet.
 

cw_sasuke

Member
Most of the market hasn't even gotten his hands on the Deck, why would they be tired of it ? If you are interested in it and decide to order you won't get a systems until like next year at the earliest.
 

MysticGon

Member
Most of the market hasn't even gotten his hands on the Deck, why would they be tired of it ? If you are interested in it and decide to order you won't get a systems until like next year at the earliest.
I think that reports of poor support and sparse updates would have doomed it regardless of how many people are on the waiting list. This time appears to be different. Deck owners seem happy, the press also hasn't lost interest and most importantly neither has Valve. They are constantly fiddling with firmware for the device making sure even third party games work well.

Even if they only achieve Dreamcast numbers after the first 5-7 years it would be biggest change to the gaming landscape since Xbox or iPhone imho.
 
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cw_sasuke

Member
System has been out for a couple of months and Valve is shipping a very small number of systems - even with the worst SteamOS WoM they still wouldnt have managed to satisfy the demand. Just from a hardware standpoint the the SteamDeck is priced very aggressive - its a PC and a open plattform, even bad and slow support wouldnt change much since people can just run Windows or other Linux distros on it.

What you are saying isnt wrong and the WoM is positive but i dont understand why and how the market could be tired of it when people that have ordered it last year are still waiting on their systems and you can still sell the device for a premium in the aftermarket. The SteamDeck currently has no competition on what it offers in that price segment.

Even if they only achieve Dreamcast numbers after the first 5-7 years it would be biggest change to the gaming landscape since Xbox or iPhone imho.
Wait...what ?
 
OP
OP
Phantom Thief

Phantom Thief

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Even if they only achieve Dreamcast numbers after the first 5-7 years it would be biggest change to the gaming landscape since Xbox or iPhone imho.
Not that I disagree with the idea that even Dreamcast numbers would be a success for this device, but this strikes me as… hyperbolic?

You’re saying it’s a bigger sea change than Wii or DS? Or Steam itself? Or the device it’s directly riffing on (Switch)? Or VR?
 

cw_sasuke

Member
Not that I disagree with the idea that even Dreamcast numbers would be a success for this device, but this strikes me as… hyperbolic?

You’re saying it’s a bigger sea change than Wii or DS? Or Steam itself? Or the device it’s directly riffing on (Switch)? Or VR?
Yeah, its a bit weird because - while the Deck and SteamOS 3 are great, in the end its "just" an expansion of what they have been building on in the PC space for the last 20 years. Hell SteamOS 3 already runs on multiple devices and Valve will offer a public built soon as well.

Comparing it to actual new billion dollar software plattforms and eco system seems a bit much.
 

MysticGon

Member
System has been out for a couple of months and Valve is shipping a very small number of systems - even with the worst SteamOS WoM they still wouldnt have managed to satisfy the demand. Just from a hardware standpoint the the SteamDeck is priced very aggressive - its a PC and a open plattform, even bad and slow support wouldnt change much since people can just run Windows or other Linux distros on it.

What you are saying isnt wrong and the WoM is positive but i dont understand why and how the market could be tired of it when people that have ordered it last year are still waiting on their systems and you can still sell the device for a premium in the aftermarket. The SteamDeck currently has no competition on what it offers in that price segment.


Wait...what ?
We aren't quite sure how many they are shipping. Someone worked out the preorders numbers from the Steam charts once but that was properly shut down within moments. We just know it continues to rank high in those charts which is a good sign even with the long wait time.

There are clones starting to pop up and even though they may not be priced as low as the base Deck we also know people are spending for the more expensive model to Gabe's relief. What that could mean is Valve's hope this would open up a new segment in the market might be coming closer to reality.

Just like how the App Store lead to Google Play Steam Deck could open things up to other companies better able to pushes the type of volume Deck could only dream of. I'm thinking Alibaba, Amazon or Tencent.
Not that I disagree with the idea that even Dreamcast numbers would be a success for this device, but this strikes me as… hyperbolic?

You’re saying it’s a bigger sea change than Wii or DS? Or Steam itself? Or the device it’s directly riffing on (Switch)? Or VR?
In my mind Microsoft branching into console gaming with bespoke hardware is a bigger deal than Nintendo getting 2 back to back hit consoles. It's harder for a new player to break into an established industry than an existing player finally seeing explosive growth.

The same way that if a new political party upsets traditional ones.

Steam taking PC mainstream is great, just like the enjoyment MMO players get or smartphone players get from playing competent versions of console experiences in the palm of their hand. I respect people who can play COD on mobile but it couldn't be me. That is to say their growth should not be ignored and adds to the overall industry but they are a different segment. Deck isn't a console but if they ever make it to retail it's not hard to imagine how and where it would be sold and who it would compete against even if it wouldn't have shelves of software alongside it.

VR is niche and will always be niche, there I said it. :p
 
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Steam taking PC mainstream is great, just like the enjoyment MMO players get or smartphone players get from playing competent versions of console experiences in the palm of their hand. I respect people who can play COD on mobile but it couldn't be me. That is to say their growth should not be ignored and adds to the overall industry but they are a different segment. Deck isn't a console but if they ever make it to retail it's not hard to imagine how and where it would be sold and who it would compete against even if it wouldn't have shelves of software alongside it.

VR is niche and will always be niche, there I said it. :p
I mean the Quest 2 has sold almost 15 million already and is still selling millions every year, already well past what you would consider a sea change with the steam deck, so I don’t see how that is niche and and the Deck is having a greater impact considering the massive gap in install base between the two.
 

MysticGon

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I mean the Quest 2 has sold almost 15 million already and is still selling millions every year, already well past what you would consider a sea change with the steam deck, so I don’t see how that is niche and and the Deck is having a greater impact considering the massive gap in install base between the two.
It's cutting edge but the truth is it's potential will always be limited by those who would fall violently ill using it. I can see modest investment in VR but it would be something very much supplemental. I'm sure there are perfectly serviceable games on the millions of Fire Tablets as well.

On the other hand I can see PC games keeping Deck specs in mind, paying Linux or Proton a little more attention, planning & optimizing their games accordingly. Simply by association it will get a bigger library of more mainstream games. Games that will likely never see the light of day on Quest and only have smaller side modes on PSVR or Index.
 
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It's cutting edge but the truth is it's potential will always be limited by those who would fall violently ill using it. I can see modest investment in VR but it would be something very much supplemental. I'm sure there are perfectly serviceable games on the millions of Fire Tablets as well.

On the other hand I can see PC games keeping Deck specs in mind, paying Linux or Proton a little more attention, planning & optimizing their games accordingly. Simply by association it will get a bigger library of more mainstream games. Games that will likely never see the light of day on Quest and only have smaller side modes on PSVR or Index.
There are some limits but that hasn't stopped VR from significantly outselling the Steam Deck. The amount of people buying and using VR headsets is significantly higher than those buying steam decks and it has already well passed what you consider to be an important barrier for the steam deck changing the game industry. A handheld PC that plays all the same games as any other device isn't really changing gaming the industry in the same way VR is, which is built on unique experiences that can't be replicated anywhere else. I don't see any argument for how VR is some permanently niche technology when it is already far bigger than the Steam Deck ever will be and is creating a suite of new experiences instead of just offering a new way to play preexisting games.
 

BTB123

Can't wait for TotK
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We aren't quite sure how many they are shipping. Someone worked out the preorders numbers from the Steam charts once but that was properly shut down within moments. We just know it continues to rank high in those charts which is a good sign even with the long wait time.

There are clones starting to pop up and even though they may not be priced as low as the base Deck we also know people are spending for the more expensive model to Gabe's relief. What that could mean is Valve's hope this would open up a new segment in the market might be coming closer to reality.

Just like how the App Store lead to Google Play Steam Deck could open things up to other companies better able to pushes the type of volume Deck could only dream of. I'm thinking Alibaba, Amazon or Tencent.

In my mind Microsoft branching into console gaming with bespoke hardware is a bigger deal than Nintendo getting 2 back to back hit consoles. It's harder for a new player to break into an established industry than an existing player finally seeing explosive growth.

The same way that if a new political party upsets traditional ones.

Steam taking PC mainstream is great, just like the enjoyment MMO players get or smartphone players get from playing competent versions of console experiences in the palm of their hand. I respect people who can play COD on mobile but it couldn't be me. That is to say their growth should not be ignored and adds to the overall industry but they are a different segment. Deck isn't a console but if they ever make it to retail it's not hard to imagine how and where it would be sold and who it would compete against even if it wouldn't have shelves of software alongside it.

VR is niche and will always be niche, there I said it. :p
Oculus Quest 2 sold 14.8M units according to estmates from IDC, which puts it over Xbox Series' estimated 14M.
 

reksveks

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I think one thing that VR needs to show is constant engagement and usage from the consumers, I personally am not sure that there is a good level of engagement yet especially in comparison to conventional gaming hw. It would be interesting to see what the steam deck engagement numbers are.
 
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