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The reasons and consequences of the decline of Playstation in Japan [UPDATE: New Guidelines]

Fisico

Moderator
Good point that I did not know. What is a non-anime artstyle game that is successful in Japan? Minecraft?

Ghost of Tsushima was incredibly successful (~500k for OG SKU >50k for Director's Cut, numbers being retail only) and couldn't be further off from anime while not being ridiculously "western" either
From Software is also finding success with every game they release, Elden Ring was also a pretty quick million seller across platforms
I don't know if Monster Hunter is supposed to be "anime", I hope not, it's litterally one of the biggest third party IP in the country
 
Just learned Sony launched a gaming phone is is barely marketing it in Japan, they could have had that division combined with Playstation to help increase console sales and maybe improve their mobile footprint by having a device that caters to the mobile gamers in japan, but they didn't.

Instead the phone seems to be targeting the streaming and YT audiences, or hardcore competitive players in Korean or the west. It's like Sony's allergic to Japan. What's funny about it is that Japan is the only region where Sony has anything resembling respectable phone market share, or did.
 

Celine

Archivist
Polyphony Digital, Team Asobi etc.*

* etc. = nothing else.

Q: Hey, I would like to play a new Ape Escape!
A: Don't worry I will come visit Japan soon.
 
Just learned Sony launched a gaming phone is is barely marketing it in Japan, they could have had that division combined with Playstation to help increase console sales and maybe improve their mobile footprint by having a device that caters to the mobile gamers in japan, but they didn't.

Instead the phone seems to be targeting the streaming and YT audiences, or hardcore competitive players in Korean or the west. It's like Sony's allergic to Japan. What's funny about it is that Japan is the only region where Sony has anything resembling respectable phone market share, or did.
Considering how they treated the Vita & this gaming phone; whatever device they conceive would share a similar fate. Besides they already tired increasing their mobile footprint, SIE did, which utterly failed; to the point that they just gave it over to Funimation, the superior mobile & game division for Sony right now.
 

Old sorta fan

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Just learned Sony launched a gaming phone is is barely marketing it in Japan, they could have had that division combined with Playstation to help increase console sales and maybe improve their mobile footprint by having a device that caters to the mobile gamers in japan, but they didn't.

Instead the phone seems to be targeting the streaming and YT audiences, or hardcore competitive players in Korean or the west. It's like Sony's allergic to Japan. What's funny about it is that Japan is the only region where Sony has anything resembling respectable phone market share, or did.
Sony mobile and SIE don’t really talk to each other. They’re very disparate divisions within Sony Group Corp. In the past, the electronics division would put its new disc format into the PlayStation hardware to push adoption of the new format. Now, Sony Group Corp. doesn’t see SIE as part of any larger strategy except to make money. Sony Group Corp. is also more decentralized than they were in the ‘90’s in general.

Check out my posts earlier in this thread for a description of SIE’s business outlook and realities at present.

I also don’t see how phones and PlayStation have much to do with each other. The software is very different. The fact that both Switch and mobile are thriving around the world shows that they are not substitutes and have very different entertainment products.
 
Herman Hulst was interviewed in Famitsu


it's just funny how these journalistic outlets all try to act like playstation isn't doing all that bad. first that WaPo xbox article that lumped playstation and nintendo sales together and now this total non question. yeah, saying "splatoon 3 launch day sales outsold all of your software this year" will probably get you barred from all playstation interviews but it would do well to acknowledge the problem.
 

meatbag

Member
Herman says Japan is still an important market for them, but he doesn’t really say anything about how they plan on reversing their fortunes in Japan. Or rather, he seems to be content to keep on doing what they’ve been doing. Not that it isn’t smart to help in publishing games like Ronin and FFXVI.

On that note, the performance of FFXVI in the Japanese market will be really interesting.
 

Terrell

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Herman says Japan is still an important market for them, but he doesn’t really say anything about how they plan on reversing their fortunes in Japan. Or rather, he seems to be content to keep on doing what they’ve been doing. Not that it isn’t smart to help in publishing games like Ronin and FFXVI.

On that note, the performance of FFXVI in the Japanese market will be really interesting.
What they say on this subject doesn't mean much at this point anyways, but you're right that it's even worse when what they say is the contextual equivalent of "cheque's in the mail". It's gotten to a point where you almost think there's a hidden subtext, and if there is, he kinda gives the subtext away with how he starts the sentence.
It's not the Japanese market they care about, it's what the industry that traditionally serves that market has to offer their platform, nothing more or less than that. There's too much symbolic association with the region in the dedicated hardware market globally for many consumers for them to be able to say that the Japanese market is becoming more and more inconsequential to their business (never mind that they want to keep singing that tune so that Japanese publishers believe they're working to turn their situation around domestically), so they'll keep singing that tune to convince consumers who don't watch sales as diligently as we do to believe that nothing is wrong, while also trying their best to lock content down that keeps that symbolic association going and assuaging fears of a permanent collapse in the Japanese market amongst publishers.
All they've got is a confidence play to keep things as they are, getting free milk without buying the cow.
 

kazewing

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Good point that I did not know. What is a non-anime artstyle game that is successful in Japan? Minecraft?
Apex , if including F2P GAAS.
That's why EA make a Nintendo Switch versions
So maybe Sony can be done through their GAAS tittle back to Japan , maybe
But That can't save PlayStation hardware in Japan
 

Fukuzatsu

Member
What they say on this subject doesn't mean much at this point anyways, but you're right that it's even worse when what they say is the contextual equivalent of "cheque's in the mail". It's gotten to a point where you almost think there's a hidden subtext, and if there is, he kinda gives the subtext away with how he starts the sentence.
It's not the Japanese market they care about, it's what the industry that traditionally serves that market has to offer their platform, nothing more or less than that. There's too much symbolic association with the region in the dedicated hardware market globally for many consumers for them to be able to say that the Japanese market is becoming more and more inconsequential to their business (never mind that they want to keep singing that tune so that Japanese publishers believe they're working to turn their situation around domestically), so they'll keep singing that tune to convince consumers who don't watch sales as diligently as we do to believe that nothing is wrong, while also trying their best to lock content down that keeps that symbolic association going and assuaging fears of a permanent collapse in the Japanese market amongst publishers.
All they've got is a confidence play to keep things as they are, getting free milk without buying the cow.
The thing I wonder is who, if anyone, on the SIE Japan/Asia side of things is actively talking to publishers/developers given the context of the situation. Like how do you as a guy local to the business not at some point go "yeah we're kind of in the dumpster sales-wise". The data's just too obvious to anyone actually there.

Just off the top of my head (on Twitter) I can think of:
Natsume Atarashi (PR Team at PlayStation Japan)
Ryoichi Hasegawa (Executive Producer at SIE Japan)
Nicolo Accordino (Producer for numerous Japanese XDEV and former Japan Studio titles)

Not exactly big names with interviews in Famitsu, but when you look at the sorts of things they're broadcasting it's almost always whatever is aligned with the "international" focus of PlayStation Studios as it currently exists rather than anything especially tailored to a Japanese audience.
Take this one from Hasegawa for example:



He's not hyper-active on Twitter (which is of course fine), but this project continues to sit rent-free in my mind as a massive own-goal on SIE's part. They obviously decided to do a more full-throated marketing campaign for this edition of MLB The Show, which is a fine idea, hell even a great one considering this was the year Pro Baseball Spirits didn't get a PlayStation release; only problem is they JUST RELEASED THE ENGLISH VERSION AS-IS, and despite the heavy promotion from Shohei Ohtani, not even the trailer got a proper Japanese version, instead just subtitling the English one.

Unsurprisingly, MLB The Show 22 did barely any numbers in Japan even though its (theoretical) main domestic competitor completely vacated the PlayStation market. It's just insane.

I won't go in on any other individual tweets just out of respect for these folks' accounts, but you can go look them up. If they're talking about Japanese-made games at all 9 out of 10 times it's like, an update for Gran Turismo 7 or some side-deal SIE is already pushing like the VR version of RE8. Just feels to me like something of a waste of local resources.
 
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Terrell

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The thing I wonder is who, if anyone, on the SIE Japan/Asia side of things is actively talking to publishers/developers given the context of the situation. Like how do you as a guy local to the business not at some point go "yeah we're kind of in the dumpster sales-wise". The data's just too obvious to anyone actually there.

Just off the top of my head (on Twitter) I can think of:
Natsume Atarashi (PR Team at PlayStation Japan)
Ryoichi Hasegawa (Executive Producer at SIE Japan)
Nicolo Accordino (Producer for numerous Japanese XDEV and former Japan Studio titles)

Not exactly big names with interviews in Famitsu, but when you look at the sorts of things they're broadcasting it's almost always whatever is aligned with the "international" focus of PlayStation Studios as it currently exists rather than anything especially tailored to a Japanese audience.
Take this one from Hasegawa for example:



He's not hyper-active on Twitter (which is of course fine), but this project continues to sit rent-free in my mind as a massive own-goal on SIE's part. They obviously decided to do a more full-throated marketing campaign for this edition of MLB The Show, which is a fine idea, hell even a great one considering this was the year Pro Baseball Spirits didn't get a PlayStation release; only problem is they JUST RELEASED THE ENGLISH VERSION AS-IS, and despite the heavy promotion from Shohei Ohtani, not even the trailer got a proper Japanese version, instead just subtitling the English one.

Unsurprisingly, MLB The Show 22 did barely any numbers in Japan even though its (theoretical) main domestic competitor completely vacated the PlayStation market. It's just insane.

I won't go in on any other individual tweets just out of respect for these folks' accounts, but you can go look them up. If they're talking about Japanese-made games at all 9 out of 10 times it's like, an update for Gran Turismo 7 or some side-deal SIE is already pushing like the VR version of RE8. Just feels to me like something of a waste of local resources.

Just guilt-free people cashing Sony Group paycheques and living their best lives off the clock.

Sounds honestly like SIE staff in Japan have been scaled back enough that it's functioning more like a Canadian gaming subsidiary, who only exist to manage any domestic development staff and make sure the manuals and packaging for games and hardware conform to local language and regulation with zero autonomy from the American office.
 

Fukuzatsu

Member
Just guilt-free people cashing Sony Group paycheques and living their best lives off the clock.

Sounds honestly like SIE staff in Japan have been scaled back enough that it's functioning more like a Canadian gaming subsidiary, who only exist to manage any domestic development staff and make sure the manuals and packaging for games and hardware conform to local language and regulation with zero autonomy from the American office.
Oh sure, I don't begrudge regular employees for just getting that bag if headquarters has given them their marching orders or anything, I just think there's lots of room to do better. Like the Hermen Hulst interview, SIE will probably still at some point do more XDEV stuff and partnerships with Japanese developers (Rise of the Ronin for example); it would be nice to hear from local staff about the projects rather than a guy like Hulst who is almost certainly not the man on the ground for those efforts.

Like put out some interviews to provide background on the partnerships if/where they exist, don't just bloviate about you'll go on a business trip.
 

fiendcode

Member
XDEV has been hiring some in Japan but it's worth noting they also handled production/support on Death Stranding and Nioh 1-2 previously. Their net of Japanese partners hasn't really seemed to widen yet in the wake of Japan Studio's shutdown, it's still just Kojima Productions and Team Ninja even looking at the leaked SIEE doc for the next few years.

If I'm honest I don't see them opening doors for the majority of past partners or staff either really (Bokeh, Clap Hanz, Wild Bunch, Millenium Kitchen, Shift, Epigrasm, Crispy's, etc, etc). The only real possibility I see is From and even there I could just as easily see Bluepoint instead heading sequels to Demon's Souls or Bloodborne.
 

Celestial

Member
Lelouch0612 posted this nice graph in the recent MC thread. Pretty wild stuff to see, especially the PS5 software sales.

Retail Software sales - Japan (Famitsu)

TRSH5Nf.png

tsKFKPt.png


PS4/PS5 split in September is based on the known split of July/August.
 

Old sorta fan

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More evidence: Sony is worried that Microsoft is “trying to turn PlayStation into Nintendo.” In this case, that isn’t meant to be pejorative, more describing the differences between Nintendo’a business of making software for everyone rather than focusing on the 12-45 yo male demographic.
 

More evidence: Sony is worried that Microsoft is “trying to turn PlayStation into Nintendo.” In this case, that isn’t meant to be pejorative, more describing the differences between Nintendo’a business of making software for everyone rather than focusing on the 12-45 yo male demographic.
Specifically they are talking about “PEGI 18 FPS” rather then demographics & potentially MS having a monopoly using their trove of FPS franchises. But, that gets to something that has been talked about here with Sony’s issues in JP. They focus way too much on 3rd parties filling the gaps & have whittled their IPs down to nothing, which all are very similar to each other.
 

awng782

Member
Microsoft buying ABK probably won't have too much of an impact on PlayStation's performance in Japan where COD really isn't all that big (MWII is the biggest global COD launch ever by revenue but in Japan it's one of the smallest launches in the series).
 
Microsoft buying ABK probably won't have too much of an impact on PlayStation's performance in Japan where COD really isn't all that big (MWII is the biggest global COD launch ever by revenue but in Japan it's one of the smallest launches in the series).
It used to be big in JP for a bit, but the decline of PS in JP really put a damper in the growth of the franchise there. Plus other competition like Apex resonating with the market & a small PC market don’t help in the figure. At this point for COD to grow in JP it would have to be on a Nintendo system.
 
Wouldn’t be surprised if sony have more success with their other first party multiplayer in Japan, than they’ve had with CoD. Something like this looks more appealing to the japanese market than the typical USA themed bro shooter.

 

meatbag

Member
Dumb arguments from both response documents, but for this one specifically: Sony states that losing Call of Duty would make them "become a less effective competitor." Meanwhile MS argues that Sony can be successful without Call of Duty, like Nintendo. These two statements do not contradict each other.
 

KR_EP

FEEL LIKE A PILOT. BE A LANDING HERO.
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Call of Duty on PS4/PS5 hasn't stopped the decline of PlayStation in Japan, it's noticeable how poorly Call of Duty Modern Warfare 1 & 2 in particular have sold in Japan (retail) compared with elsewhere. For the purpose of this discussion, which is specifically about the reasons and consequences of the decline of Playstation in Japan, the possibility of mainline Call of Duty titles going Xbox/PC makes little or no difference to SIE. COD Warzone 1 & 2 is another matter, depending on whether it bucks the downward trend. Becoming like Nintendo would be a great outcome for SIE. @PillFencer doing the Sales God's work charting the first week opening retail sales & weekly Steam charts. People can look up Media Create retail sales & consider if the Japanese audience have gone or moved onto PC if they wish to pursue this line of inquiry further. Hopefully the below means we can, again for this part of the debate, ignore SIE lobbying as it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
qdE3N6x.png

Famitsu Sales: Week 44, 2022 (Oct 24 - Oct 30)
04./00. [PS4] Call of Duty: Modern Warfare II <ACT> (Activision) {2022.10.28} (¥8.800) - 24.371 / NEW <60-80%>
06./00. [PS5] Call of Duty: Modern Warfare II <ACT> (Activision) {2022.10.28} (¥8.800) - 17.710 / NEW <80-100%>
Famitsu Sales: Week 45, 2022 (Oct 31 - Nov 06)
09./04. [PS4] Call of Duty: Modern Warfare II <ACT> (Activision) {2022.10.28} (¥8.800) - 7.351 / 31.722 <60-80%> (-70%)
14./06. [PS5] Call of Duty: Modern Warfare II <ACT> (Activision) {2022.10.28} (¥8.800) - 3.544 / 21.254 <60-80%> (-80%)
Famitsu Sales: Week 46, 2022 (Nov 07 - Nov 13)
15./09. [PS4] Call of Duty: Modern Warfare II <ACT> (Activision) {2022.10.28} (¥8.800) - 4.607 / 36.329 <60-80%> (-37%)
 

More evidence: Sony is worried that Microsoft is “trying to turn PlayStation into Nintendo.” In this case, that isn’t meant to be pejorative, more describing the differences between Nintendo’a business of making software for everyone rather than focusing on the 12-45 yo male demographic.
It used to be big in JP for a bit, but the decline of PS in JP really put a damper in the growth of the franchise there. Plus other competition like Apex resonating with the market & a small PC market don’t help in the figure. At this point for COD to grow in JP it would have to be on a Nintendo system.
Time to bring back Killzone!!!

They do have first party FPS IPs, they just don’t use it.
 

AruanaRiva

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More evidence: Sony is worried that Microsoft is “trying to turn PlayStation into Nintendo.” In this case, that isn’t meant to be pejorative, more describing the differences between Nintendo’a business of making software for everyone rather than focusing on the 12-45 yo male demographic.

This battle between Sony and MS for Acti has been so silly that it sometimes makes me laugh lol. Going from Sony throwing shades on EA on battlefield being lesser IP vs CoD and will never beat CoD, to MS saying Nintendo is more mature than them while showing nude Bayonetta and pointing Mara exist on SMT lol.

It is like for Ninty and EA: Whats wrong with you guys lol? Don't drag us into this brawl.
 

RDragon

Member
This Sony vs Microsoft really is the internet console wars. Sony comes off as especially petty since the PS5's stock issues are better, GOW is selling like hotcakes and will most likely be GOTY, Horizon 2 is a great game despite being overshadowed by Elden Ring, and they're over here crying about COD like nothing else matters. At least Microsoft being desperate makes sense since in terms of software, this years has been horrible for them with all their big bombs being delayed and Halo sinking into the depths.
 

AruanaRiva

I will never doubt Harada-sama ever again!!!
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This Sony vs Microsoft really is the internet console wars. Sony comes off as especially petty since the PS5's stock issues are better, GOW is selling like hotcakes and will most likely be GOTY, Horizon 2 is a great game despite being overshadowed by Elden Ring, and they're over here crying about COD like nothing else matters. At least Microsoft being desperate makes sense since in terms of software, this years has been horrible for them with all their big bombs being delayed and Halo sinking into the depths.

Sony indeed comes out really petty there. But MS is also kinda big lol. Like saying that Nintendo is now competitor and then they are more mature than MS just sounds like desperation all around.
 

RDragon

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Sony indeed comes out really petty there. But MS is also kinda big lol. Like saying that Nintendo is now competitor and then they are more mature than MS just sounds like desperation all around.

Microsoft is obviously desperate because a) their first-party output has been terrible despite owning so many studios with 2021 being their best year out of five and b) this deal is most likely keeping them from buying more studios. They made no secret that they wanted more, especially from Japan. Hence all the fanboys' wet dreams of Microsoft buying Square to 'stick it' to Sony.
 
I cannot wait for all this bs to be over but it seems like every news tidbit that leaks makes me think its just gonna go on far longer. This acquisition feels like a dark cloud over the industry right now
 

meatbag

Member
It's funny that Sony is saying MS wants them to turn into Nintendo, when in fact the ABK acquisition would be more like MS becoming closer to Nintendo-- a company with a strong catalog of first party IPs. I know the context of Sony's statement is more geared towards them becoming a "less effective competitor to MS", but still, quite amusing.
 

Old sorta fan

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Time to bring back Killzone!!!

They do have first party FPS IPs, they just don’t use it.
They don’t use it because narrative heavy IP’s have a shelf life because every story either ends or gets long in the tooth. Nintendo’s IP’s are still vibrant because they are gameplay-oriented. You can refresh the gameplay without changing the look of the mascots.

For example, Breath of the Wild basically threw out the previous story via a soft reboot and also gave all new gameplay. Halo is an example in the opposite direction. 343 Industries tried to continue the story after Halo 3 while offering no new gameplay and the results have been... mixed at best.
 

Astrogamer

Member
They don’t use it because narrative heavy IP’s have a shelf life because every story either ends or gets long in the tooth. Nintendo’s IP’s are still vibrant because they are gameplay-oriented. You can refresh the gameplay without changing the look of the mascots.

For example, Breath of the Wild basically threw out the previous story via a soft reboot and also gave all new gameplay. Halo is an example in the opposite direction. 343 Industries tried to continue the story after Halo 3 while offering no new gameplay and the results have been... mixed at best.
Horizon and God of War are pretty narrative heavy IP. The issue with Killzone is that it's too linear and never showed the legs Sony wanted. Part of Sony's winning formula is built-on open world systems that don't play too favorable with Killzone. They could try the open-world shooter like Microsoft did with Gears and Halo but, Sony probably doesn't want to invest in old IP for no reason.
 
Horizon and God of War are pretty narrative heavy IP. The issue with Killzone is that it's too linear and never showed the legs Sony wanted. Part of Sony's winning formula is built-on open world systems that don't play too favorable with Killzone. They could try the open-world shooter like Microsoft did with Gears and Halo but, Sony probably doesn't want to invest in old IP for no reason.

Those ip fizzled out. The only people that have fond memories of them (killzone, Warhawk, socom, resistance) aren’t the demo sony are going to target for multiplayer games. They’re better off trying their hand at new IP creation that reaches different age groups and regions.

Like I posted before the London Studio game looks more fortnite/apex. Something that looks and plays more like Ratchet and Clank versus CoD is probably their best bet for expanding their userbase.
 

Astrogamer

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Those ip fizzled out. The only people that have fond memories of them (killzone, Warhawk, socom, resistance) aren’t the demo sony are going to target for multiplayer games. They’re better off trying their hand at new IP creation that reaches different age groups and regions.

Like I posted before the London Studio game looks more fortnite/apex. Something that looks and plays more like Ratchet and Clank versus CoD is probably their best bet for expanding their userbase.
I wouldn't say they fizzled out. Killzone Shadowfall clearly sold well enough for a launch PS4 title and the Resistance series sold in the 1-2 million range per entry. That's the range of an entry of Ratchet & Clank. It's more than Sony just wanted 5+ million sellers, re-prioritizing their respective devs around God of War and Spider-Man (with Warhawk and SOCOM's devs being defunct). Sony probably wouldn't need to invest so much in multiplayer games if they weren't solely interested in massive hits. They basically miss their chance at medium successes like Splitgate and Hell Let Loose with their approach. I think recognizing the value of their library for AA games could pay in dividends and help fill out their release calendar rather than solely betting on indies and maybe 3 AAA+ games a year
 
I wouldn't say they fizzled out. Killzone Shadowfall clearly sold well enough for a launch PS4 title and the Resistance series sold in the 1-2 million range per entry. That's the range of an entry of Ratchet & Clank. It's more than Sony just wanted 5+ million sellers, re-prioritizing their respective devs around God of War and Spider-Man (with Warhawk and SOCOM's devs being defunct). Sony probably wouldn't need to invest so much in multiplayer games if they weren't solely interested in massive hits. They basically miss their chance at medium successes like Splitgate and Hell Let Loose with their approach. I think recognizing the value of their library for AA games could pay in dividends and help fill out their release calendar rather than solely betting on indies and maybe 3 AAA+ games a year

I assume its the combination of both sales and critical reception. Those games started selling less and less over time and started reviewing poorly. Part of the selling point of the first party is that they maintain a high level of quality, even games like Returnal while not being a smash hit sales wise gained a lot of prestige for the studio and brand.

Similar to how people are talking about “genre fatigue” with their first party titles right now there was definitely the same genre fatigue during the ps3 era with all the military shooters
 

Terrell

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Specifically they are talking about “PEGI 18 FPS” rather then demographics & potentially MS having a monopoly using their trove of FPS franchises. But, that gets to something that has been talked about here with Sony’s issues in JP. They focus way too much on 3rd parties filling the gaps & have whittled their IPs down to nothing, which all are very similar to each other.
It's hard to separate one from the other, as "PEGI 18 FPS" or whatever you call them begets a very specific demographic, one that SIE considers extremely lucrative.

But yeah, it comes down to the problem that's been raised in this thread, which is that SIE know how to grow their business (especially how to leverage the weaknesses of their competitors), but don't seem to have a solid grasp on how to proactively maintain or sustain it, painting themselves into a corner that they didn't need to be in and behaving far more reactively.
Also, their over-reliance on 3rd-party software has made it incredibly easy for both Nintendo and Microsoft to know what hurts SIE's business the most and take their time picking the pain points that benefit them as much as it hurts PlayStation.
 
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I assume its the combination of both sales and critical reception. Those games started selling less and less over time and started reviewing poorly. Part of the selling point of the first party is that they maintain a high level of quality, even games like Returnal while not being a smash hit sales wise gained a lot of prestige for the studio and brand.

Similar to how people are talking about “genre fatigue” with their first party titles right now there was definitely the same genre fatigue during the ps3 era with all the military shooters
A big problem with the "shooter fatigue" during the PS3 era was the focus on the wrong calls: more story driven "gameplay", heavy realiant on QTE and the 30fps gameplay. Sure, you could use a 30fps on a more slow game as The Witcher, Zelda, Horizon or Assessins Creed, but not on an action oriented game. CoD resisted, with Battlefield, because their development studios and pubishers focus on the gamplay action MP Online modes. Sony could be hurt a lot with the losing incoming money from MTX form CoD. Another thing is its own percibed incapbility of creating new franchise that didn't are 3D action/shooter games with heavy emphasis on walking-talking sections.
Another problem was the handling of Sony own shooter franchise like Ressistance and Killzone. They proudly show the graphics and even when they actually using tricks, smokes and mirrors:

They didn't create a new form of game, and even more, they even started to copy the CoD/Halo inteface and gameplay on its own shooters, efectivily making more like clones of the military shooters form the era.
The Nintendo comparative is relevant because when Nintendo consoles lost Call of Duty games, they developed it's own shooter, Splatoon. Nintendo are developing it's own IP's because they don't care about the third parties games (except Dragon Quest and Moster Hunter), and even more, they could show in the face the harsh facts and numbers, the Nintendo franchise are healty and strong, selling millions without heavy discounting nor pack-in strategy, something Sony only could dream. Sony didn't want to handle all the process of nuturing a franchise from zero, they want to milk the cow, and thats why they are developing Marvel videogames, because there isn't much comic and super heroes videogames on the last few years, and want to developing those games using the pre-existing IP popularity. Sony is driven big time by third parties, even when some of their games are actually important, like God of War.
 

meatbag

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their over-reliance on 3rd-party software
I think it was fine to rely on 3rd party software, but the problem is that they started taking that support for granted. We've all heard the stories of how smaller devs find it difficult to penetrate the PS marketplace, as well as how Sony seems to mostly favor the biggest players. It also hurts that Nintendo and Xbox have provided stable ecosystems for game devs to sell in, and so the playing field has been the most level it's been in a long while.

Of course SIE has realized this, thus their increased focus on nurturing their own catalog of first party IPs, but they still have a lot of lessons to learn as a first party publisher. They need to realize the importance of smaller budget games. Maybe they can tap into a few of their legacy IP. They need to aim for demographics outside of their main one.

when Nintendo consoles lost Call of Duty games, they developed it's own shooter, Splatoon
This is a bit disingenuous because Nintendo did not develop Splatoon "in response to losing CoD". Indeed, Call of Duty was on Wii U, where Splatoon was birthed.

The core point is that Nintendo has refined the art of creating and establishing new video game franchises. They're the kings of first party for a reason.

Sony didn't want to handle all the process of nuturing a franchise from zero, they want to milk the cow, and thats why they are developing Marvel videogames
In a way, this is true. It would be more accurate to say that SIE realizes they don't really have mascot IP they can reliably sell games with, and thus it just makes financial sense to use established comic book/movie IPs to develop games around, especially since their forte is in pushing tech and presentation.
 

fiendcode

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More evidence: Sony is worried that Microsoft is “trying to turn PlayStation into Nintendo.” In this case, that isn’t meant to be pejorative, more describing the differences between Nintendo’a business of making software for everyone rather than focusing on the 12-45 yo male demographic.
The funny thing is "turning into Nintendo" is actually Microsoft's aspirational goal for themselves. They want to be able to drive platform adoption off primarily their 1st party (shifting from the 3rd party driven model that currently exists for both Xbox and PlayStation) and the ABK acquisition is key to that.
 
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J-Cat

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She/her
This battle between Sony and MS for Acti has been so silly that it sometimes makes me laugh lol. Going from Sony throwing shades on EA on battlefield being lesser IP vs CoD and will never beat CoD, to MS saying Nintendo is more mature than them while showing nude Bayonetta and pointing Mara exist on SMT lol.

It is like for Ninty and EA: Whats wrong with you guys lol? Don't drag us into this brawl.
C'mon, did they really point out Mara in SMT? 😂
 

BTB123

Can't wait for TotK
Member
Right here, as well as showing the Bayo 3 screenshot lol

9eHLrXV.jpg


And here is where they say the Switch has a broader range of mature content than Xbox

XOadMD4.jpg
In addition to the games they mentioned there are also plenty of VNs and other smaller games with a lot of sexual content and actual full nudity.
 

Terrell

Member
Pronouns
He/Him
I think it was fine to rely on 3rd party software, but the problem is that they started taking that support for granted.
Well, I think there's a line between reliance and over-reliance. Even Nintendo relies on 3rd-party software, if only from a balance sheet perspective (but likely more than that and more than most people attribute to them).
And you're right, they took it for granted, but companies take their market position for granted all the time and more often than not, they are able to get away with it. But even in those instances, companies will often do the barest minimum to cement their market position. The problem, from my perspective, begins when SIE under-estimating their market competitors' ability, capacity and desire to mess with or take their flow of software support from them and started engaging in behaviours that left their weakness exposed by not engaging in that bare minimum.

Japanese software support (much of which was de facto exclusive both in Japan and worldwide) had been historically a big factor in SIE’s brand worldwide, but they were so sure in Nintendo’s impotence to attract software makers to their platform that they allowed their market position in Japan domestically to erode and then made moves to actively begin tearing it down; they weren’t buying the cow and expected free milk. And while I’m sure that Nintendo would have won lots of software support for Switch regardless, I think that SIE’s own actions and inactions greatly accelerated that trend until we’re in the place we are now. And with all the small and mid-tier software in the bag, Nintendo knows there’s only one competitive advantage left to erode, and given SIE’s clear inability to get large Japanese publishers to abandon PS4 for their biggest IPs, it’s easy to see which one. SIE may as well have painted a bullseye for Nintendo to aim for IMO.

And now Microsoft is making it clear that they are bigger and badder than SIE in the North American market segment they re-oriented themselves to defend most aggressively, where the best SIE can do is defend their ability to receive software like CoD, where the likely outcome is that they still receive that software but keeping it on PlayStation only stuffs more money into their competitor’s pocket regardless, a real “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” scenario. So they’re throwing hail-marys in the faint hope regulators will quash the ABK acquisition outright using negative sentiment around big tech (which, given how Sony themselves entered the games industry, is pretty fucking rich, but that’s neither here nor there).
 
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