Square Enix output strategy | Discussion thread.
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I'm curious if the people saying FF7 is incredibly Japanese play mostly American/European games or not. The vast majority of what I play is Japanese, and FF7R bugged me for how modern American AAA game it is. All of the NPCs look like they belong more in an American game, with their bland designs. They are far more realistic-looking than the main cast. It felt like they had a Western studio handle all those models, and they were completely at odds with the artstyle of the main cast. The game had a bunch of unnecessary and boring side-quests shoe-horned in that added absolutely nothing to the experience, but you were more or less forced to do some of them, just like every modern AAA game. And like Western games, the gameplay is padded out with incredibly long levels that clearly are built that way just so it takes a longer time for you to trade in the game. Then there are the constant slowed-down walk-and-talk segments, the crawling through a crack in the wall scenes, a lot of dialogue being done outside of cutscenes... Compare FF7R up against Kingdom Hearts III. Both are directed by Nomura, and released only a year apart. But KH3 is very Japanese in its design. It feels like a PS2 game, but with the freedom given from modern tech. FF7R feels incredibly Western in comparison.
I think the game was a bit of a hybrid between Japanese and American sensibilities. My theory is that whichever of the two you're less accustomed to is what stands out the most. The mannerisms are definitely Japanese (although I think they are more in the vein of J-dramas than anime).
Back to a sales and marketing approach though, I don't think FF7R is a good parallel to FF16. FF7R, by being that marriage of Japanese and Western sensibilities, is making a stronger point to appeal to Japan. FF16 looks to be going all-in on the West in a way similar to Tabata's version of FF15. Because of that, I don't think the sales rebound from FF15 -> FF7R matters for XVI. I believe XVI will perform worse than XV in Japan because it's continuing down that direction. VIIr2 has a better chance there.
I think the game was a bit of a hybrid between Japanese and American sensibilities. My theory is that whichever of the two you're less accustomed to is what stands out the most. The mannerisms are definitely Japanese (although I think they are more in the vein of J-dramas than anime).
Back to a sales and marketing approach though, I don't think FF7R is a good parallel to FF16. FF7R, by being that marriage of Japanese and Western sensibilities, is making a stronger point to appeal to Japan. FF16 looks to be going all-in on the West in a way similar to Tabata's version of FF15. Because of that, I don't think the sales rebound from FF15 -> FF7R matters for XVI. I believe XVI will perform worse than XV in Japan because it's continuing down that direction. VIIr2 has a better chance there.
I'm not sure if I agree with your conclusion. all those things can be explained with taking a 10 hour section (at worse) of a longer game and stretching it to 3-4 times the length. KH3 is a whole-ass game
The sidequests, sure. But not all the presentation elements, such as the constant scenes of forcing you into a slow walking speed while nothing happens and characters talk. KH3 would have cutscenes instead of doing that. The character designs also have nothing to do with the length of the game.
VIIR is no more padded than any other JRPG, they're all about 40 hours. And it's not realistic to expect the NPCs to match the insane production values of the main cast, those character models are superior to Advent Children.
Honest question, since I haven't played the game: How can a game that was only a 10 hour-segment, but then was turned into a 40 hour game, not be padded? You can argue that the padded content is good in your opinion, but that there is padding is kind of factual, isn't it?
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My biggest thing with FF7R is how many parts it's gonna be and how long they plan to spend remaking the game. People might be excited to buy a game called FF7R but how many people are going to want to buy part 3 or part 4 years after this whole remake started? Especially now that it seems less like a standard remake and some alternate universe thing that seems designed to mainly appeal to hardcore fans of the original FF7. If the games start seeing diminishing returns on their sales then I wonder what Square's response would be.
I'm not disagreeing but I just want to say it's definitely more padded than The Last Story, that game is lean af. =P
less "if" and more "when". SE should already have a built-in response by limiting the number of games
My take it all falls to how Part 2 performs. I could see it being similar to The Hobbit movie. One and two were good, but stretched too much.
Having content not found in the original isn't necessarily padding, especially if its good. Simply making an actual 3D representation of FF7 is going to result in a longer play time, the opening mission of that game is pretty similar to the original game, but one takes 10 minutes and the other takes an hour, mostly because you aren't just going from background to background, you're actually exploring a large 3D reactor, there's no padding there. The boss fight is much more in depth with much great production values and much more mechanics at play, the cutscenes are actually voice acted/mo capped and take longer than just reading through text boxes. These things result in a longer play time simply by designing it like a modern day video game.
They do add alot of scenarios/area's to the game but i would argue your typical Ubisoft game is much more padded, they make you slowly traverse an absurdly over sized world, VIIR is mostly taking you from point A to point B. Thats not to say the game doesn't have padding, its impossible to make a high quality 40 hour game without padding, But the padding is mostly just combat encounters, and the combat system is the strength of the game, hence the high opencritic score.
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Yeah, but with Square maybe they have already planned for 4 and at that point it could be hard to suddenly condense all of that especially if they are caught off guard by a continued drop in sales. But hopefully you are right and they don't try and overextend themselves.
True, but once you have two parts that already set a pace so if the next one does worse and they have to wonder if they could suddenly wrap everything up without rushing it. I do feel like with the current situation in Japan as well as being part 2 of a remake, which isn't usually how remakes work, and if they continue down the whole alternate universe path that it could result in part 2 doing worse than part 1.
It's been nearly 2 years, so i think its safe to point out that FF7R isn't actually a remake. I'm probably in the minority on this, but honestly i don't see why they should stop making them assuming they keep selling well. If it takes 5-7 years to make a mainline game and they can keep making these every 3 years to bridge the gap then thats a pretty awesome scenario tbh, basically turn FF7 into Persona, it's own series. There's enough unique locations, enemies, and playable characters that they can keep making these games for a long time without having to rely on old content.
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I agree it seems to be less of a remake, but I have to wonder if the average consumer understands it that way. For most people I assume, they think of a remake as a single game and if it turns out to be an entire mini-franchise remaking a single PS1 game I feel like some people might not enjoy that. FF7 already has a bunch of spinoffs, which also now seem important to the plot of the remake, but idk if most consumers would want FF7 remake to basically become Kingdom Hearts except it's the plot of a single game being super stretched. I'm sure the megafans would love that but it might not be a viable thing for Square financially.
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I think they are going to sell the sequels the same way Sony is doing with God of War and Horizon, they are probably going to put new moments and areas to entice fans.
The first game being available on PS Plus its going to help people be interested on the sequel
The first game being available on PS Plus its going to help people be interested on the sequel
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Well, it's... a bit complicated.
If you want to know...
This contains both basic gist, as well as major spoilers as to how they expanded upon this. So absolutely read with caution.
The game spends a lot of time focusing on aspects that likely happened but was skimmed over. We get to see more about the Sector 7 people, how people make a living, Jessie's actual life and her back story, and what actually happened during the plate collapse during the Sector 7 Tower Plate bombing. Plus, a lot of details that were just generally expanded upon that were arguably glossed over in the original.
But the biggest thing is we got and if you don't want to be spoiled about this, definitely stop reading here..
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...is the fact that the game is a sequel to Final Fantasy VII and Advent Children. The game tackles a lot of scenes where Sephiroth is showing up out of nowhere, interacting with Cloud, and only Cloud can see him. But there's a specific scene in the Church where Cloud has a vision of Meteor falling, which is something he shouldn't know about. During a good portion of the game, there is a sense of something isn't right and this is something people who played the original would pick up on.
On top of this, these strange creatures, as we find out, are "Whispers", who are the Arbiters of Time. They keep trying to fix changes made into the time line and try to keep it on track, but Sephiroth (or likely Jenova, given the pronoun difference in the Japanese version) keep trying to interfering with it.
At the end of the game, the characters finally want to know what's up and Aerith, who's been somehow aware of things she shouldn't know, reveals the whole thing that the Whispers are trying to prevent a split in the time line from occuring.
Ultimately, the characters make a determination, near the end of escaping Midgar, to decide to challenge fate itself, and break off from the original time line. Resulting in also somehow Zack surviving, due to their interference with the time line stuff.
There's also a scene at the end of Intergrade that has people split what happened with Zack and there's multiple theories going on. Nothing seems fully concrete and likely will be revealed in the next part, or potentially in a later part.
But the biggest thing is we got and if you don't want to be spoiled about this, definitely stop reading here..
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...is the fact that the game is a sequel to Final Fantasy VII and Advent Children. The game tackles a lot of scenes where Sephiroth is showing up out of nowhere, interacting with Cloud, and only Cloud can see him. But there's a specific scene in the Church where Cloud has a vision of Meteor falling, which is something he shouldn't know about. During a good portion of the game, there is a sense of something isn't right and this is something people who played the original would pick up on.
On top of this, these strange creatures, as we find out, are "Whispers", who are the Arbiters of Time. They keep trying to fix changes made into the time line and try to keep it on track, but Sephiroth (or likely Jenova, given the pronoun difference in the Japanese version) keep trying to interfering with it.
At the end of the game, the characters finally want to know what's up and Aerith, who's been somehow aware of things she shouldn't know, reveals the whole thing that the Whispers are trying to prevent a split in the time line from occuring.
Ultimately, the characters make a determination, near the end of escaping Midgar, to decide to challenge fate itself, and break off from the original time line. Resulting in also somehow Zack surviving, due to their interference with the time line stuff.
There's also a scene at the end of Intergrade that has people split what happened with Zack and there's multiple theories going on. Nothing seems fully concrete and likely will be revealed in the next part, or potentially in a later part.
I wonder how many hardcore FF7 fans are even receptive to this kind of stuff. FF7's numerous spinoffs don't exactly have the stellar reputation that the original does.
I think making it episodic was a big mistake personally. As someone whose only lightly played the original I would have been in for a more direct sequel (I also would be fine if it was part one/part two) but I can't see myself playing something that will come in at 300 hours and cost £200+ to complete. They haven't even said how many episodes it will be.
Its hurt both the initial releases sales as well as the PS5/Windows release. Its insane pricing will not have helped. Each episode will sell less and less.
Its sales were weak enough already that it really looks like a weight around SEs neck when they could be investing into other games instead.
Its hurt both the initial releases sales as well as the PS5/Windows release. Its insane pricing will not have helped. Each episode will sell less and less.
Its sales were weak enough already that it really looks like a weight around SEs neck when they could be investing into other games instead.
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In a parallel multiuniverse, instead of doing a reimagining of FFVII, Square would remake the 3 different moments of the story.
First Crisis Core, then proper FFVII and after Advent Children. All of them sharing assets and battle system. So by these, you would have the complete FFVII story.
that btw, they are doing that with mobile game right? i should have give my idea to square a few year early lol.
First Crisis Core, then proper FFVII and after Advent Children. All of them sharing assets and battle system. So by these, you would have the complete FFVII story.
that btw, they are doing that with mobile game right? i should have give my idea to square a few year early lol.
It was the 2nd fastest selling PS4 exclusive at the time of release. The games success is not debatable, the real question is how the sequels sell.
That's not something unique to FFVII either. We've traditionally seen sequels like that show decline when it comes to JRPGs.
Yeah, this is my concern as well. I do think FFVIIR sequels have a better chance at avoiding massive drop for a couple of reasons though.
-They were designed to be multiple games from the beginning and this was communicated to the fans before release, rather than say FFX and XIII being advertised as stand alone stories and being retconned after the fact
-New locations and assets as opposed to typical sequels that rely heavily on the previous games assets
-The games will hopefully be just as good if not better than the first
Being 40 hours doesn't make them equally padded. FF7R regularly has stretches that go on forever and ruin the pacing. For example, in the Shinra building, the dungeon where you're running around the lab takes a good three hours. This complete breaks up the flow. That section has almost nothing plot relevant, and it all looks the same and is very repetitive. It's clearly just there to stretch out the game. There are very few RPGs outside of dungeon crawlers that put you in 3+ hour dungeons. FF12 is the only one immediately coming to mind, and that aspect of that game was also awful. That's also an FF that is vastly more popular in the West than in Japan.
A good chunk of the added material fleshes out the characters in meaningful ways, and develops plot points that were only vaguely discussed in the original. Those really make things better. There's a lot of really good added material, and a lot of really pointless added material. Midgar in the original took me 5 hours. The remake took me 30. I think the game would have been amazing at 15 hours, but the extra 15 hours really bloated it.
If they finished FF7 Remake, they definitely will.
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I'd say that the Switch will be the lead platform for that game while the PS4 (&/or PS5) versions will be upscaled, if anything given how the software sales in Japan are favoring the Switch more so than either PS4 or PS5.
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Given how far out we are from a platform announcement for this game, I'd be more inclined to assume that Nintendo's next hardware release will be the lead SKU for DQXII, especially because it utilizes UE5.
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Leaker claims:
- Big enough to divert attention from FF16
- Not KH, FF or DQ
- FF7R may not ever come to Xbox
It's a million seller, achieved after about a month?
Nier is disposable compared to Final Fantasy
I honestly can't fathom a game that's big enough to take attention away from FF16 other than a AAAA new IP that Sony owns and bankrolling
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Nier Automata sold 6M.
Does the leaker say "not yet announced" or "not yet revealed"? If it's the former, could be DQ12 after all.
Even if not: I feel like my musings about Sony acquiring SE are pointless, because SE already has built up firm partnership at this point: Big games for Sony, small games for Nintendo.
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If it can be a western game, I would also suggest Tomb Raider. Its second best selling IP fron Square-Enix, behind FF.
If not, its totally a new Nier.
If not, its totally a new Nier.
Leaker said "not DQ". It crushed Oregano.
It just means they have another exclusive. =P
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I feel whenever things like "overshadows x o y/on the level of blabla" are said people take it waaay too seriously and overthink it. It very easily can be Nier, that game has large social media presence and is a pretty big attention grabber. The PC port for that was also a nightmare so I could see them not doing it this time lol.
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Yeah, I think it's Nier. But I could see them doing a PS5 exclusive of Tomb Raider.
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Crystal dynamics is working on Perfect Dark..
Sony seems to be more invested in the JP side of SE. This is their 5th exclusivity deal (FF16, FF7R, Babylon, Forspoken, Nier (?)). At this point, KH spinoff, KH4, DQ spinoff may also be in the cards.
Acquiring Square Enix would be a great play to counter MS acquiring Bethesda, but wouldn't make sense at the moment, as they are already getting most games exclusive in some form. Perhaps it will make more sense after there is a depression in equities from rising interest rates and SE will be much cheaper to buy.
"Big enough to divert attention" is a very weasel-like phrasing, any notable SE exclusive with a significant budget could conceivably "divert attention" if it looked good enough, even if it was something totally unrelated like a new SaGa game or Front Mission 6 or something.
Not KH/FF/DQ makes sense because there's already pretty significant FF work in play between FF Origin, FFXIV, and FFXVI, DQXII is guaranteed to be multiplatform unless someone shells out absurd money, and KH3 is still pretty recent.
FF7R not coming to Xbox just makes sense at this point; who even is the hypothetical audience that only owns an Xbox and still would have such demand for it after 2 years? I'd say at the very least FF7R won't be coming to other platforms until the trilogy is actually complete, it would be too hard to maintain an audience for 3 individual games on Xbox if it was continually that delayed.
But NieR? I don't know, Automata sold very well considering the IP's history alongside Drakengard, but I struggle to imagine what a *huge* new entry would look like, and the folks between SE/Platinum presumably already have their hands full with Babylon's Fall (lol), unless someone else is developing it this time, which also seems like a bit of a reach.
I mean if Automata was a timed exclusive for PS4, at a bare minimum I'd imagine Sony at least wants that much for the sequel. From their perspective, the more Square IP they can get to be associated with their brand, the better.
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I feel like Nier does make the most sense, maybe they plan to make the next game even bigger. The only other thing I could see it being is a new IP but that seems unlikely right after Forspoken releases. Dragon Quest or Kingdom Hearts don't make a ton of sense as Dragon Quest needs the Switch and Kingdom Hearts has been multiplatform and now seems to also be releasing on PC.
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Space Invaders (although that's more of a legacy IP these days); I could see Square Enix telling Taito to make an AAA cinematic Elevator Action game although that's probably a long shot, but Sony does love third person shooters.
NieR franchise is a growing IP and can fit very comfortably in their prestige AAA gaming brand. Automata's story and how it executed it was a lot more key to it's success.
Not a western game.
Nier is my assumption as well.
They are also working on Tomb Raider atm.
Not sure if you are serious or just kidding but Nier is a great game that got very good reviews and wom. I'm sure what you mentioned didn't hurt, but it's not like most people are buying games to look at a ass. I hope.