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Yeah, outside of Japan, Rebirth is doing better that FFXVI and DD2, i find hard to believe that It shipped Just 2M.
Maybe if it underperfomed in the west, they didnt overship it too because theres no sale yet
It didn’t, but also it followed a platform expansion model with every single release.Since GDL doesn't have those numbers, anyone got WW numbers for Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3? I don't remember the ME trilogy collapsing like that.
Makes you wonder what could have been huh?It didn’t, but also it followed a platform expansion model with every single release.
ME: Xbox launch, late PC port
ME2: Xbox-PC launch, late PS3 port.
ME3: Xbox-PC-PS3 launch, late Wii-U port.
Fun times.
The sequel arguments just doesn't make any sense to begin with. Like Spider-Man 2 had a bigger launch then both Miles and Spider-Man PS4 (nevermind the fact that Miles was a cross-gen covid release top it of). If anything a sequel should have a bigger launch, as people who bought the predecessor at a later, would be more incline to buy the sequel day 1.Oh my, seeing a really dumb "no corona boost"-argument in some places on the internet. That makes no sense for a story-driven game. If anything, it should have boosted the overall sales for the trilogy, because more people should want to see how the story proceeds. That apparently didn't happen. Without FF7R being "boosted" by corona, FF7R2 probably would have sold even less. But there is no one-time-boost for the first episode that the second episode somehow doesn't benefit from.
The last 4 mainline Final Fantasy games all sold less than the previous entry:
FFXV (2016) - 5m (1d)
FF7R (2020) - 3.5m (3d)
FF16 (2023) - 3m (4d)
FF7R (2024) - <2.5m (2w)
Strongly disagree. FF7 Part Two is a much bigger direct sequel which you need to play the first to delve into.The sequel arguments just doesn't make any sense to begin with. Like Spider-Man 2 had a bigger launch then both Miles and Spider-Man PS4 (nevermind the fact that Miles was a cross-gen covid release top it of). If anything a sequel should have a bigger launch, as people who bought the predecessor at a later, would be more incline to buy the sequel day 1.
ME hit zeitgeist in ways FF hasn't in decades. and it was in a more popular genre and aesthetic at the time.Both Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 sold better that the first
For me there’s a significant lack of marketing but that could also be the marketing team struggling to work out how they transform each £€$ into sales to make up for it. Whose buying this game post launch who didn’t already buy it at launch?Every piece of information on this game is absolutely bizarre, the discussion keeps getting taken from one direction to the next. The comparison is tired at this point, but the information we have from Japan and Europe shows it either outselling DD2 or being about even with it. And yet that game shipped 2.5 million in 11 days, and Rebirth is only selling "about half" of what 7R sold in a similar timeframe? I guess the vagueness of that leaves a lot of interpretation but ... considering it's been out for more than a month and the quote seems to be talking about its current sales figures, that'd be pretty bad if it wasn't 3/4ths of Remakes sales at this rate. Legs must be pretty bad.
ME also had a strong ceiling and it’s sequel was a cross platform release whilst the first was exclusive on consoles for some time. You can play ME2 quite easily without playing ME1; in fact that’s a big reason for their decision to break from the first game with its opening.ME hit zeitgeist in ways FF hasn't in decades. and it was in a more popular genre and aesthetic at the time.
given there aren't too many IPs that shown such growth in comparison to ones that don't, Mass Effect is more an outlier
As a huge Mass Effect fan, I cannot disagree any harder. Like one of the big selling points of Mass Effect 2 prior to release was importing your Mass Effect 1 into the sequel, so that your choices and relationships would continue in the sequel. Like Mass Effect 2 didn't even get a recap of Mass Effect 1 until the PS3 release of Mass Effect 2 a year later. Where as FF7 Rebirth manage to include a recap of the previous game.For me there’s a significant lack of marketing but that could also be the marketing team struggling to work out how they transform each £€$ into sales to make up for it. Whose buying this game post launch who didn’t already buy it at launch?
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ME also had a strong ceiling and it’s sequel was a cross platform release whilst the first was exclusive on consoles for some time. You can play ME2 quite easily without playing ME1; in fact that’s a big reason for their decision to break from the first game with its opening.
I mean if ME2 sold more then I don’t think the save factor is really worth great discussion here.As a huge Mass Effect fan, I cannot disagree any harder. Like one of the big selling points of Mass Effect 2 prior to release was importing your Mass Effect 1 into the sequel, so that your choices and relationships would continue in the sequel. Like Mass Effect 2 didn't even get a recap of Mass Effect 1 until the PS3 release of Mass Effect 2 a year later. Where as FF7 Rebirth manage to include a recap of the previous game.
Like even then, I stated earlier that Insomniac's Spider-Man games are practically proof that this argument is just doesn't work. Spider-Man 2 follows up on multiple plot threads and character arcs from the first game and the Miles Morales spin off game. Yet it had a bigger opening then either game.
I mean sellthrough being half of Remake is in roughly the same area as DD2 numbers (accounting for potential extra physical stock).Every piece of information on this game is absolutely bizarre, the discussion keeps getting taken from one direction to the next. The comparison is tired at this point, but the information we have from Japan and Europe shows it either outselling DD2 or being about even with it. And yet that game shipped 2.5 million in 11 days, and Rebirth is only selling "about half" of what 7R sold in a similar timeframe? I guess the vagueness of that leaves a lot of interpretation but ... considering it's been out for more than a month and the quote seems to be talking about its current sales figures, that'd be pretty bad if it wasn't 3/4ths of Remakes sales at this rate. Legs must be pretty bad.
I realized that when writing my comment, but there was still something off about it to me, and I guess what it is is that it's much more likely that Rebirth was at least a few 100k above DD2 given that it outsold it in UK and vastly outsold it in Japan - putting it's 11 day figure closer to 3M. And considering 7R didn't even ship 5M till almost 4 months after its release .... I'd think 3M in 11 days, even if obviously much slower than 7 Remake's 3.5M in 3 days, would be closer to 3/4th of the games sales than about half.I mean sellthrough being half of Remake is in roughly the same area as DD2 numbers (accounting for potential extra physical stock).
Im really curious if Rebirth can run on the Switch 2, they should really try Remake and Rebirth to be launch titles for the Switch 2
Seeing the types of statements we have from just this year alone. Wouldn’t be shocked if they didn’t think about it until about a decade from now where someone just randomly throws out doing a Nintendo port.We'll have to wait and see where the Switch 2 ends up spec wise but still, Remake should have shown up on the Switch. Unless Sony was very specific on their deal I don't see a good reason at all why it skipped. Witcher 3 made it, Hogwarts last year and Kingdom Come just recently but a very linear unreal engine 4 game can't?
I realized that when writing my comment, but there was still something off about it to me, and I guess what it is is that it's much more likely that Rebirth was at least a few 100k above DD2 given that it outsold it in UK and vastly outsold it in Japan - putting it's 11 day figure closer to 3M. And considering 7R didn't even ship 5M till almost 4 months after its release .... I'd think 3M in 11 days, even if obviously much slower than 7 Remake's 3.5M in 3 days, would be closer to 3/4th of the games sales than about half.
It really just goes to show that either 7 Rebirth has some unsold stock or its legs really really collapsed, which we kinda saw in the U.K. already but it really is surprising.
I am the biggest obstacle for Rebirth on Switch 2 will be the cart issue. The game is on two 4K Blu-ray discs on PS5 and has a size of 150GB. Like Switch 2 could be very powerful, but the cart prices could affect what games come to the platform.Im really curious if Rebirth can run on the Switch 2, they should really try Remake and Rebirth to be launch titles for the Switch 2
Its not possible to release on 2 cartridges?I am the biggest obstacle for Rebirth on Switch 2 will be the cart issue. The game is on two 4K Blu-ray discs on PS5 and has a size of 150GB. Like Switch 2 could be very powerful, but the cart prices could affect what games come to the platform.
Publishers aren't willing to spend the money now just to get higher capacity cartridges. You think they're gonna spend money on 2 or more high capacity cartridges next gen?Its not possible to release on 2 cartridges?
I dont know, they released Rebirth on two bluray discs, i dont know if the cartridges are that more expensivePublishers aren't willing to spend the money now just to get higher capacity cartridges. You think they're gonna spend money on 2 or more high capacity cartridges next gen?
I'm not entirely sure, no publisher on any cartridge base system console ever did that to my knowledge. Even carts are still likely gonna be more expensive then a blu-ray disc for third parties. Like the rumor price I've seen toss around for 32GB Switch carts for third parties is 20 dollars per a cart. Where as a Blu-Ray disc is like a couple dollars.Its not possible to release on 2 cartridges?
They probably can reduce the file size by a little bit (removing the recap video, , reduced assets model quality, compress some stuff here and there) but we are still looking at a 256 GB cart..don't think we can use switch cartridge prices for Drake cartridge prices as they're rooted in a time of Switch launch. there's reason to believe the pricing would be more favorable to higher capacities anyway
SE probably want for the consumer to be able to play the game without online download since they released FF7 Remake and Rebirth on two disks on PS4 and PS5.Publishers will do what they do now which is put some of it on cart & offload the rest to the consumer. I don’t think carts are what is gonna keep Rebirth off of Redacted. The bigger issue is them not doing it or pulling a “I would love to put games on Switch” Harada.
If I was SE upper management I would be counting down the days until finally moving off this exclusivity deal. It has done them no favors & has stifled whatever plan(s) they have as company using FF.
if Rebirth is 150GB, I don't see why they can't shrink it down to under 128GB. we've seen higher shrinkage ratios on switch alreadyThey probably can reduce the file size by a little bit (removing the recap video, , reduced assets model quality, compress some stuff here and there) but we are still looking at a 256 GB cart..
Its not possible to release on 2 cartridges?
Even from Square Enix. FFXII went from 40GB (PS4) to 50GB (Steam) to 13GB (Switch) for example.if Rebirth is 150GB, I don't see why they can't shrink it down to under 128GB. we've seen higher shrinkage ratios on switch already
To be fair though the original FF12 was only 4.6GB, though the Zodiac Age does show just how much a boost in asset, video, and audio quality can increase a game's file size.Even from Square Enix. FFXII went from 40GB (PS4) to 50GB (Steam) to 13GB (Switch) for example.
The usable space for a cart is lower, around 119 GB. Hence it may require a larger cart. But I agree with the other posters, it may be able to fit if the file size is reduced to be lesser than 119GB.if Rebirth is 150GB, I don't see why they can't shrink it down to under 128GB. we've seen higher shrinkage ratios on switch already
Well then they have a choice of either trying to fit it in a big cart or doing a mandatory install. There is only three options here to choose from & they can choose to get something rather then nothing.They probably can reduce the file size by a little bit (removing the recap video, , reduced assets model quality, compress some stuff here and there) but we are still looking at a 256 GB cart..
SE probably want for the consumer to be able to play the game without online download since they released FF7 Remake and Rebirth on two disks on PS4 and PS5.
The bigger issue I have is that it doesn’t really address a key issue they brought up about five years ago. Both them & Capcom have mentioned how hard it is to recruit staff for these types of projects. Nomura complained about not having enough experienced staff to even start up 7R-1. The money is nice but this will be a persistent issue for them so long as they continue to ignore it. Meanwhile it is only getting more competitive between the various Japanese & Chinese companies for developers. It will only get harder to reverse the trend if all they ever show up with is a bag of chips.That is a really interesting thought experiment.
If Sony came along and paid for 10 years of console exclusivity from 2020 onwards that covers the remake trilogy and at least 2 numbered releases with carve outs for spin-offs like Crisis Core and CHAOS.
Sony doesn't need to maintain a Japanese studio outside of Polyphony (Team Asobi will probably be shuttered after it's current project since Jim won't be there to protect it).
If the deal was generous enough for Square it takes all the risk out of producing and promoting their most money hungry franchise and they probably get to keep most, if not all of the profit to boot.
Probably seemed like a good idea at the time to Sony with FF15 selling 10 million copies and 7 Remake having Holy Grail status at the time.But even in it's depressed state FF is probably good for more than that over the next decade across 5-6 games(They are already there with 7R and 16). Even if Sony is spending close to $1 billion to cover all those costs it's less risky than starting up an internal studio and hoping for the best.
It's a symbiotic relationship.
Note: our FF7 Rebirth user numbers include players of the free demoSo going by that tidbit and the ampere analysis FF7 Rebirth probably sold around 2-2.5 million.
Note: our FF7 Rebirth user numbers include players of the free demo
The original FF7 was mostly filler from around hour 6 to hour 20-25, which is basically what Rebirth covers. The party would go to a town hoping to find Sephiroth there. Once there, they would get caught up in a 1-2 hour subplot that had little-to-nothing to do with the main story. At the end, they'd get a hint that Sephiroth was possibly in the next town over. That repeated until they'd visited most of the world map. I always thought that was a major flaw in the original game, but most people never brought it up as a problem. I haven't played Rebirth yet, but the problems you're bringing up sound inherited from the original.As a newcomer to FF7 who hasn't played or watched or experienced anything about this particular game until 7 Remake and Rebirth, I feel like I'm on two difference sides of a fence.
As far as the actual JRPG gameplay, Rebirth is fantastic. Even if the open world is a bit tedious to traverse in later areas, I've never not enjoyed the locations, doing Chadley's intel, finding fat headed baby chocobos to pet. The minigames are a bit much but a lot of them are still fun.
Narratively though I have no idea what to make of these two games lol. Rebirth feels a bit like KH3 to me where a lot of the story just feels like filler. It's got great party and character building and a lot of background info on how they got to this point as well as the subplot of how Shinra ruined a lot of people's lives but the actual main plot progression has just been kinda making excuses for us to go to these places. I have to imagine that the chasing of robed men to find Sephiroth probably made a lot more sense when this was the middle part of a 30 hour game and not an entire middle game itself. All the locations and characters must be great fanservice for OG fans but as a new fan they're just tossing characters likeat me with little or vague introduction and I'm just trying to make sense of their actual role.Cissnei, Zack, Cid, Glenn
Sure but I think it also illustrates that these massive filesizes on PS/PC are also a consequence of devs generally not bothering to optimize data reduction past BD limits for PS or at all really on PC. Even just eliminating dummy data and unused files in a lot of cases, nevermind using asset compression well.To be fair though the original FF12 was only 4.6GB, though the Zodiac Age does show just how much a boost in asset, video, and audio quality can increase a game's file size.
Sure but I think it also illustrates that these massive filesizes on PS/PC are also a consequence of devs generally not bothering to optimize data reduction past BD limits for PS or at all really on PC. Even just eliminating dummy data and unused files in a lot of cases, nevermind using asset compression well.
SE has other examples too like DQXI (30GB PS4, 40GB PC, 13.5GB Switch) or NieR Automata (44GB PS4, 50GB PC, 11GB Switch), not just the FFXII remaster. Saying games are "too big" to port is an old argument that's been disproven repeatedly already.
Ahh thanks for the clarification! Good to knowNote: our FF7 Rebirth user numbers include players of the free demo
Dummy data isn't just for HDDs, it helps reduce loading and seek times for any media that reads from a disc, card or drive. Dummy data isn't the only area where big gains can be made on filesize optimization either, look at that Famitsu article on DQXI where dummy data wasn't mentioned, it was all about smart asset, fmv and shading compression.HDD based games had to have repeat copies of assets due to the nature of how mechanical drives seeks data, which is what bloated a lot of the file size for games. It's the same with PC games that don't require an SSD and have to account for HDDs.
That's the reason why a lot of PS5 games are either equal or smaller in file size to their PS4 counterparts, despite having 4k-ready assets and video files. Case in point: GOW: R is 23GB smaller on PS5, in comparison to PS4. It's not about a lack of optimization, it's just that the nature on both flash memory and SSDs allow for not needing duplicates on disk, which along with the reduction of asset quality (mainly lower resolution textures/videos) allow for massive reductions in file sizes on switch like you exemplified.
And on Rebirth: it's already a PS5/SSD game, it won't see the same reduction in comparison to PS4/HDD games, as that amount of data is mostly due to asset variety, not repetition. I mean, there are 7 reasonably large open-worlds of sorts in the game who share very little in terms assets between them and also have a lot of variation inside of each, so it adds up.
They most likely can reduce it to fit a 128 GB cart, but 64 GB is not really realistic. Which is why Nintendo should be working into making 32 and up carts a lot more affordable for devs than they are now or have at least 512gb of internal storage on switch 2, to allow for less prohibitive mandatory installs than on current Switch.