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Sony Q4 FY3/2024 Financial Results (Jan- Mar 2024) | PS5 HW 4.5m, SW at 72.6m | FY- GN&S sales up by 17% YoY, OI up by 16%

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Q4 sales

Hardware - 4.5M
(-28.6% YoY)
Software - 72.6M (+6.8% YoY)

Q1-Q4 Cumulative sales

Hardware - 20.8M
(+8.9% YoY)
Software - 286.4M (+8.4% YoY)

Other mods feel free to edit if/what I'm missing.
 
On the other hand Nintendo stock price tumbled hard after Furukawa mentioned Switch successor recently. So investors seems to predict a great future for Sony in gaming while of course as always they predict Nintendo will fail hard and go back to Wii U revenue soon.
What are you even talking about? Nintendo’s stock is approaching the highs of this past February right now.
 
On the other hand Nintendo stock price tumbled hard after Furukawa mentioned Switch successor recently. So investors seems to predict a great future for Sony in gaming while of course as always they predict Nintendo will fail hard and go back to Wii U revenue soon.
Nintendo stocks are up 15% and hitting the highest since March 2024 (And third biggest peak since Feb 2024 which was their best ever number).

But to be fair, it did drop 6% when the FY was announced, investors gonna invest i guess.
 
Will we see concord in this SoP?

If they have a PlayStation showcase this May/June and it's not there, I would have severe doubt as for the feasibility of releasing the game in 2024. They could always pull a CoD and have some sort of dedicated State of Play closer to release but I would think that even if their plan was a shorter marketing ---> release schedule, they should still have a in engine/gameplay trailer at the showcase which always accrues a ton of views.
 
The whole comment was about GTA being the "biggest entertainment" which was clearly the broad appeal of the series, in that regard, Pokemon is magnitudes bigger.

Yeah about the GTA6 the game, not all the multimedia avenues. GTA6 will be the biggest entertainment launch in history.
 
What are you even talking about? Nintendo’s stock is approaching the highs of this past February right now.
Nintendo stocks are up 15% and hitting the highest since March 2024 (And third biggest peak since Feb 2024 which was their best ever number).

But to be fair, it did drop 6% when the FY was announced, investors gonna invest i guess.
To be fair, Nintendo's stock did drop immediately following their FY report, before it began soaring again.
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I'm not actually sure why the stock suddenly jumped again. Perhaps it's people buying in anticipation of the Switch 2 announcement reveal...
 
Pokemon games sell what? 20-25m? GTA5 sold 200m. Comparing GTA with Pokemon is rediculous.
Pokemon games sell 15-20m per year while GTA did 200m over 3 console generations. What's ridiculous is you clearly not reading what I wrote and simply repeating the same faulty logic I refuted originally.

It's like saying Mario Kart is bigger than COD because one game sold more.
 
Why would Sony get all the benefits of new GTA? Xbox and Steam will also profit from new GTA.

The only one who doesn't profit from new GTA release is Nintendo, but that is how its always been.
 
Why would Sony get all the benefits of new GTA? Xbox and PC will also profit from new GTA.

The only one who doesn't profit from new GTA release is Nintendo, but that is how its always been.
It’s not releasing on PC day 1 as far as we know. And Xbox is much weaker then before.
 
Not a fair comparison tbh, Pokemon games sell 20m every 1-2 years (with spin offs doing 10-15m on the other years). Not to mention most of it it's full price.

GTA5 has sold 200m but its been dirty cheap plenty of times but it rakes money with GTAOnline + new versions.

All i'm saying is that, the comparison is not fair since their models are way too different, not to mention, Pokemon games are all about introducing more stuff to sell as license/merchandising, manga, anime, tv show, movies, etc...

I mean, Pokemon merch in 2022 made more revenue than the entire run of GTA 5 on the market (11.6bn vs 8bn). It's all about perspectives.

More like every 2 years or so. I don't remember Pokemon being annual franchise and neither charting in European/USA chart top 10 every year unlike GTA5 since last decade.
 
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Why would Sony get all the benefits of new GTA? Xbox and Steam will also profit from new GTA.

The only one who doesn't profit from new GTA release is Nintendo, but that is how its always been.
From a profit perspective, GTA6 would probably be negative for Xbox in shortterm as it would cause negative margin console sales and presumably only Xbox One players would upgrade.

Long term it reduces the (arguably minimal) cost of a current Xbox One player abandoning the Xbox ecosystem

ETA: Arguably minimal in that a lot of folks think the risk is small that someone would sacrifice their save data and digital purchases. We know Xbox One is still heavily played and presumably drives sub and MTX revenue accordingly.
 
More like every 2 years or so. I don't remember Pokomen being annual franchise and neither charting in European/USA chart top 10 every year unlike GTA5 since last decade.
But Mario and Pokemon games really come out all the time. That is the reason why Mario games have sold about 240 million copies in total during the Switch era for example.
 
More like every 2 years or so. I don't remember Pokomen being annual franchise and neither charting in European/USA chart top 10 every year unlike GTA5 since last decade.
Mainline Pokémon does around 20m in a year, they alternate in remakes, Legends and major DLCs (which replaced 3rd versions). There's a big mainline Pokémon release every year, and that's in addition to console spinoffs and mobile/multiplatform ongoing service games. And the premium games/DLC basically never drops in price.

Pokémon Go is ~700m downloads by itself, the reach of the franchise is incredible.
 
More like every 2 years or so. I don't remember Pokemon being annual franchise and neither charting in European/USA chart top 10 every year unlike GTA5 since last decade.
Mainline Pokémon does around 20m in a year, they alternate in remakes, Legends and major DLCs (which replaced 3rd versions). There's a big mainline Pokémon release every year, and that's in addition to console spinoffs and mobile/multiplatform ongoing service games. And the premium games/DLC basically never drops in price.

Pokémon Go is ~700m downloads by itself, the reach of the franchise is incredible.
This is getting a bit off topic. There are probably better threads than this one.
 
Wait why do we keep mentioning GTA6 for this fiscal year (18m forecast)? Doesn't this fiscal year run from April 2024 to March 2025? No way GTA6 was ever expected within the first 3 months of 2025.
Yeah I agree, I think GTA will be released in FY 2026 (Apr 2025-Mar 2026).
 
No, because as it has been said many times Sony accounts for 100% of 3rd P revenue.
Their actual business margin would be around 12% which is pretty good for a model taking $1-2B losses on hardware. If they were making profit on hardware their margin would be 18-23%.

This seems like a silly point, you might as well calculate what the profit margin would be if their software sales doubled.
 
Just within games, Pokémon as a property is still going to bring in more revenue than GTA on average by month/year/generation or any time based metric. They're hard to compare directly because of this, GTA is a tentpole oriented release with a valuable service revenue component while Pokémon is basically an annual console franchise with a "cultural phenomenon" scale mobile service title in Go.

It's like comparing NBA2K or COD to Minecraft or Mario Kart, the release models are so different that while the latter may exceed in a given major release year, it's not going to consistently lead.
You are correct and that's not really the point I am trying to pass across. GTA 5 has made money comparable to mobile games that are widely distributed. All the mainline Pokemon games plus spinoffs on consoles within that period are not reaching that revenue. Heck, very few single-entry console and PC games reach that revenue. Yes, Pokemon Go is there but I am not talking about mobile. Asides say Fortnite its on another level as a single product ( though some will say Fortnite is more of a platform now)

It's a Juggernaut in the space selling almost 200 Million copies way more units than console Pokemon games within the time period. it's not an easy feat and that's the reason analyst expect it to give the industry a boost. Pokemon used to be my favorite franchise and not bringing it down but GTAV should not be underestimated.

Edit: that's my last post on the discussion didn't mean to derail the thread.
 
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Indeed, an 18m forecast seems to be right between conservative and optimistic.

A generation ago the PS4 Pro launched at the same price the original PS4 had during its own launch in late 2013: $399. We won't see the same thing this generation. The PS5 Pro will launch at a premium price, so its share of unit sales will be notably lower than the PS4 Pro's was, which was 20-25%.

A permanent price cut for the regular PS5 is indeed unlikely. Temporary deals are what Sony will opt for.

As much as people decry the high price, I still see the current gen consoles as great value for what you get. EVEN TODAY (let alone at launch, year 1, 2 etc) it would be difficult to put together an equivalent spec PC for $500.

More to the point, PS5 and XSX where available in the USA this past holiday for 399/349. Given rampant inflation today it's good. I cant speak to overseas markets of course.



Really curious to see the price of PS5 Pro.

PS4 Pro cost 1/3 more than PS4 (U$399,90 x U$299,90).

If PS5 follows that, should be ~U$666,66 por disc edition and ~U$600,00 for digital.

I believe they will sell only a digital edition priced at U$599,90.

They should make PS5 Pro digital only.

I'm trying to figure out the point of Pro from Sony perspective. It feels like such an afterthought, with a massively more powerful Xbox next gen on the way sooner than later. Last gen PS4 pro IIRC was ~15% of sales, so it's not a needle mover and their fiscal forecast looks the same as it would without PS5 Pro (18m). What is Sony's goal? My best guess is, it will be sold at less of a loss, and offer some kind of improvement to overall hardware margins. Nothing else makes sense. I still wonder if the R&D roi is worth it, but presumably Sony did those calculations.

Strong results, was expecting slightly better, but PS5 is doing incredibly well at this point in life while being now $200 more than PS4 and with GTA6 and many big PS titles to come.

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Rev: $29.4B
OI: $2.5B ($2B w/o Bungie acq. cost)

FY2024F:
  • Rev : $29B
  • OI : $2.5B ($2.15B w/o Bungie acq. cost)
FY2025F:
  • OI : $2.5B
FY2026F:
  • OI : $2.9B

OI chart like this can grow kind of meaningless in high inflation era. Everything should basically be at a nominal high, but not a real one necessarily. The SP500 for example is very often at or near nominal high, such as right now., But if you price it in terms of gold, it is not right now.

No, because as it has been said many times Sony accounts for 100% of 3rd P revenue.
Their actual business margin would be around 12% which is pretty good for a model taking $1-2B losses on hardware. If they were making profit on hardware their margin would be 18-23%.

And its pretty clear that for PS, PS can grow substantially by simply eating into Xbox's marketshare which is in decline.
Basically this gen story has been (percentages pulled out of my butt, kind of a feel) Xbox down mildly to substantially (even though the degree seems often overstated when looking at the whole gen), maybe 10%-15%. So did PS grow to take over that share? No. it's also down a bit from PS4 (for example, in terms of hardware units)maybe down 3%. Overall this doesn't paint a great picture of the core market. PS should be up ~10% if market wasn't shrinking, and all they did was take over xbox losses, meaning zero sum game, which imo is still a bad thing. but it's not even that.
 
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Totoki literally pointed out profit growth today, and didn't say anything about low margins.

Totoki is the one who said this after Q3 quarterly earning after he was asked "why the game division is seeing an increase in gross income but not in profits, and whether there were any initiatives planned to improve the bottom line."

I personally think there are opportunities out there for improvement of margins, so I would like to go aggressive in improving our margin performance.

As someone has mentioned earlier, improving margin is the whole reason for the re-org and it's probably a performance metric for top executives.

People seem to think for Sony $2bn profit from $30bn revenue are worse than $1.5bn profit from $20bn revenue, since the margin is lower.
I'm sure Totoki would gladly take the additional 500m Dollar in this example.

That's not how it works though since investors always expect more. (see question asked above) In your case, I'm actually not sure if Totoki would be happy since he would need to have a good explanation on why the margin dropped.
 
Basically this gen story has been (percentages pulled out of my butt, kind of a feel) Xbox down mildly to substantially (even though the degree seems often overstated when looking at the whole gen), maybe 10%-15%. So did PS grow to take over that share? No. it's also down a bit from PS4 (for example, in terms of hardware units)maybe down 3%. Overall this doesn't paint a great picture of the core market. PS should be up ~10% if market wasn't shrinking, and all they did was take over xbox losses, meaning zero sum game, which imo is still a bad thing. but it's not even that.

Xbox is going to be down more than 10-15%. From 58M, I'd say 45M is the current target. Who knows, if MSFT starts porting Halo, Gears, Indiana Jones, Forza, Starfield, then XBS could have the rug pulled from underneath.

I'd say 20% decline.

The whole PS/XB is an absolute fixed sum is a complete misread of the market. Consoles are very price sensitive.
The market at $499 is very different to the market at $199.
PC and Nintendo are take a non-zero part of the userbase and we already know this to be true from NPD data, and court data.

And I'd wait till after GTA6, Pro and a potential price cut before concluding PS5 won't overtake PS4.

That's not how it works though since investors always expect more. (see question asked above) In your case, I'm actually not sure if Totoki would be happy since he would need to have a good explanation on why the margin dropped.

Not really, investors at the moment like to see profit numbers as well, not just purely margin. Margin can be constant but if revenue rises then profit will rise and right now Playstation has some, if not the best growth in the entire industry.

No point trying to guesswork what Totoki is thinking every quarter and its far less relevant now that PS has 2 CEOs.
The market is pleased with the results considering the 5% stock jump at open.
 
Content and Services comparison between the Big 3:

Playstation: $5.2B
Xbox: $3.1B ($5.0B with ABK)
Nintendo: $1.27B ($1.93B with PS/Xbox revenue method)
It's possible that Xbox will surpass Playstation on Content & Services soon, with all those great games coming, like Indiana Jones, CoD 2024 and (rumored) Forza Horizon 6.
 
It's possible that Xbox will surpass Playstation on Content & Services soon, with all those great games coming, like Indiana Jones, CoD 2024 and (rumored) Forza Horizon 6.
I don't expect Forza to come out this year at all. With all the releases stacking in the second half of the year and game development time getting longer I don't see Playground releasing FH6 this year. And - to be honest - there will be too much games in autumn.
 
I dont get all the GTA6 talk, just looks desperate for anything to boost the platform. GTA is not the type of franchise to rely on to show up on time. GTA6 might just miss the next two fiscal years (April 2024 to March 2025) and (April 2025 to March 2026), by that point having a major affect on PS5 becomes damn near impossible. I don't see 2025 being any more likely than 2026 considering GTA's history. Let's wait and see before we start calling for it to be our savior.
 
I dont get all the GTA6 talk, just looks desperate for anything to boost the platform. GTA is not the type of franchise to rely on to show up on time. GTA6 might just miss the next two fiscal years (April 2024 to March 2025) and (April 2025 to March 2026). I don't see 2025 being any more likely than 2026 considering GTA's history. Let's wait and see before we start calling for it to be our savior.
Well GTA 6 will sell the hardware for sure as Series/PS5 will be the only place to play those games. Now, whether it will influence FY24 - that's a separate matter. Well it should at least as the announcement (or gameplay reveal) will drive hardware sales up.
 
It hasn't been but platform confirmations will probably come tomorrow.
Oh, you're right, didn't realize that it was not an official statement. There was some talk about it launching on PS4 but not Xbox One, which I don't think makes sense much sense for a Western publisher.
 
No point trying to guesswork what Totoki is thinking every quarter and its far less relevant now that PS has 2 CEOs.
The market is pleased with the results considering the 5% stock jump at open.
Considering the 2 CEOs report to Totoki, I would say what he is thinking is as relevant as ever since the two CEOs basically have to execute what he is thinking.
 
Oh, you're right, didn't realize that it was not an official statement. There was some talk about it launching on PS4 but not Xbox One, which I don't think makes sense much sense for a Western publisher.
Yeah, Ubisoft hasn't said anything about platforms but the website metadata points to PC, PS5, PS4 and Xbox Series. We have an insider that said and reaffirmed no PS4 but we'll see tomorrow probably with the trailer drop.
 
GTAV sold like 18 million copies in a week, I expect GTA6 to top that. It will 100% move a lot of hardware. The prices do need to be cut before then though
 
The market is pleased with the results considering the 5% stock jump at open.
That's not how this works. The midday push is because they're reconsidering the Paramount acquisition, which investors have been wary off. G&NS results came in below analyst targets and were a net negative but not the biggest drag (financial services again).

Attributing these minor stock fluctuations the way you are is misguided. I guess investors are thrilled with Xbox given the stock's up 9% since they closed Arkane Austin & Tango?
 
That's not how this works. The midday push is because they're reconsidering the Paramount acquisition, which investors have been wary off. G&NS results came in below analyst targets and were a net negative but not the biggest drag (financial services again).

Attributing these minor stock fluctuations the way you are is misguided. I guess investors are thrilled with Xbox given the stock's up 9% since they closed Arkane Austin & Tango?
I don't think if Microsoft was affected by ABK acquisition if any. Much less Xbox.

I do wonder what is going on with Sony's financial services?
 
That's not how this works. The midday push is because they're reconsidering the Paramount acquisition, which investors have been wary off. G&NS results came in below analyst targets and were a net negative but not the biggest drag (financial services again).

Attributing these minor stock fluctuations the way you are is misguided. I guess investors are thrilled with Xbox given the stock's up 9% since they closed Arkane Austin & Tango?

The gaming division had an excellent quarter, this is very evident by looking at the numbers

Wall street journal:

 
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I do wonder what is going on with Sony's financial services division?

Sony's financial services division is now completely irrelevant, it will be spun off very soon. It has already been announced and planned for many months. They decided to do it because financial services division was very expensive to run and was taking resources away from the entertainment branch
 
Considering the 2 CEOs report to Totoki, I would say what he is thinking is as relevant as ever since the two CEOs basically have to execute what he is thinking.

CEOs always report to the board, chairman etc. There is nothing new there in that aspect.
There is a huge difference in control and decisions a CEO does versus a Chairman though, and thats why PS having its own CEOs is a departure from the interim period.

Attributing these minor stock fluctuations the way you are is misguided. I guess investors are thrilled with Xbox given the stock's up 9% since they closed Arkane Austin & Tango?

You think Xbox matters to MSFT stock like PS matters to Sony? Come on.
 
Hardware shipments are down 1.8 million year over year for the quarter (4.5m to 6.3m), however for the entire fiscal year hardware shipments are 1.8 million up (19.1m to 20.9m).

PS5 Versus PS4

For the 4th quarter of the 3rd full fiscal year (yellow) the 4.5 million the PS5 shipped is 1.6 million up on PS4's 2.9 million and after 14 quarters the PS5 totals 59.3 million compared to 60.2 million for the PS4. This means launch aligned the PS5 is 0.9 million behind PS4.

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PS5 versus current competitors

After 14 quarters the PS5 totals 59.3 million compared to 29.5 million (est) for XBS and 61.44 million for NSW. This means launch aligned the PS5 is 29.8 million (est) ahead of the XBS and 2.14 million behind the NSW.

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Note: XBS hardware shipments are my personal estimates based on the limited information available.
This FY was at 20.8M for PS5, not 20.9M. Because of the rounding you can't just always add up all quarters.
 
No, because as it has been said many times Sony accounts for 100% of 3rd P revenue.
Their actual business margin would be around 12% which is pretty good for a model taking $1-2B losses on hardware. If they were making profit on hardware their margin would be 18-23%.
Clearly the numbers were good this quarter but this is such a defensive counterfactual:"Under an accounting system they don't and haven't used and if they weren't losing money on hardware, the margins would be 23 percent."
 
I'm thinking Sony still loses money on hardware sales. If we compare their FY report with Nintendo they dominate Nintendo in both hardware and software sales, yet have half the profits Nintendo recently reported . Logically that means that they are still selling PS5 at a cost and thus the profits only come from software sales.

Meaning that 4 years on, production cost of PS5 has still not declined enough for them to earn a profit from selling the console. Meaning that price cuts is harder than ever for Sony to do. So maintaining PS5 sales should be harder than maintaining PS4 sales the longer its on the market because the price will not go down the same way PS4 price went down.
 
PS5 Versus PS4

For the 4th quarter of the 3rd full fiscal year (yellow) the 4.5 million the PS5 shipped is 1.6 million up on PS4's 2.9 million and after 14 quarters the PS5 totals 59.3 million compared to 60.2 million for the PS4. This means launch aligned the PS5 is 0.9 million behind PS4.

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Some errors I noticed:

PS4 Yearly total for FY 2014/15 is 14.8M not 14.9M
PS5 Yearly total for FY 2023/24 is 20.8M not 20.9M.


The solution I have for PS4 is to ajust down Q1 of that FY from 2.8M to 2.7M.

PS4 FY 2014/15
Q1Q2Q3Q4
Original2.7M3.3M6.4M2.4M
Revised2.8M3.4M6.4M2.3M

Looking at diffrrences between original data and revised numbers from Sony for FY 2014/15, I think severall quarter are things like ~2.75M.

For PS5 need to ajust down the current quarter from 4.5M to 4.4M to found the right yearly total of 20.8M and 59.2M for LTD.

Again the issue of this quarter is that Sony likely ship something like 4.45M and round it up to 4.5M leading to sum of quarter not machting yearly sales.
 
presumably only Xbox One players would upgrade.
Well, the people who didn't upgrade yet are most likely the more price councious players, so the system sellers 3rd party games like GTA and COD finally moving from crossgen should be the time for the Series S to shine at sub $300.

But you can always count on Xbox to find a way to screw themselves up, so who knows.

Is there anyway to know how active the PS4 owners are? It has been a very long cross gen was it worth it?
They have 123M monthly active users and shipped 59M PS5s. I don't know if that counts PC players and multiple accounts using the same PS5 can push it betond 60M there, but I think it's safe to say there are dozens of millions still active on their PS4.
 
I'm thinking Sony still loses money on hardware sales. If we compare their FY report with Nintendo they dominate Nintendo in both hardware and software sales, yet have half the profits Nintendo recently reported . Logically that means that they are still selling PS5 at a cost and thus the profits only come from software sales.

Meaning that 4 years on, production cost of PS5 has still not declined enough for them to earn a profit from selling the console. Meaning that price cuts is harder than ever for Sony to do. So maintaining PS5 sales should be harder than maintaining PS4 sales the longer its on the market because the price will not go down the same way PS4 price went down.

Price cut may not happen but like this quarter they had temporary discounts which helped ship 4.5m. This is still 2nd best Q4 result ever for Playstation.

They will continue with discounts from time to time.
 
21M with no pressure no price cut and arguably an increase is fantastic.

Another slow year for Playstation AAA first party ahead. That huge focus on GAAS really back fired. Let this be a lesson.
 
You think Xbox matters to MSFT stock like PS matters to Sony? Come on.
Did I say it did? You're missing the point of that statement.


The gaming division had an excellent quarter, this is very evident by looking at the numbers

Wall street journal:

The quarter was good but not the full year.


Sony stock overall is down over 14% YOY.
 
21M with no pressure no price cut and arguably an increase is fantastic.

Another slow year for Playstation AAA first party ahead. That huge focus on GAAS really back fired. Let this be a lesson.
Yeah, about that...

 
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