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PlatinumGames // Strategic Bomba Command // non-stop climatic bloody minded self-publishing action. // P* Origins: Clover & the Lost Okami sequel.

"Whadya buyin!? Heard that in a game once."

  • Bayonetta 3 (Switch)

    Votes: 32 45.1%
  • NieR Automata The End of YorHA Edition (Switch)

    Votes: 6 8.5%
  • "Flock off, feather-face!" I'm buying all of the above.

    Votes: 33 46.5%

  • Total voters
    71
  • Poll closed .

RDragon

Member
I don't see a point in this idea of review/discussion refusal when Helena is already guaranteed to never VA in anything now. She will never be Bayonetta again. Jennifer Hale seems to be doing a good job from what I've heard in videos and she's super pro-union. Along with having most of the other cast being union VAs, protesting for the sake of VA rights feels counterintuitive here.

Also to note, Jennifer Hale Liked the Tweet calling Helena a lair.
 

Kanann

Schadenfreude enthusiasm
Member
The lesson I learned here is how low VA pay, Japanese side too.

I always with labors but Miss Taylor sound pretty sus here.
 
I really would like to know how much she was paid for Bayonetta 1 and Bayonetta 2, just for context. Asked her on twitter, no answer so far. And sry, something about this sounds fishy for me, such as Bayonetta is an IP wo made almost 500.000.000$. Without merchandise. Even with merchandise i can´t really believe this. Not with the sales we know, and not with the response the franchise was getting from Sega back then.
 

Aime

Member
What's a nonsense to said Bayonetta franchise made $450M ? How many million seller to count 450 million dollar even SEGA would not care.
She said it like Platinum is a rich company to raise her value?

Why she think her role make this game had many million seller even me play only Japanese voice never put English dub.
 
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I really would like to know how much she was paid for Bayonetta 1 and Bayonetta 2, just for context. Asked her on twitter, no answer so far. And sry, something about this sounds fishy for me, such as Bayonetta is an IP wo made almost 500.000.000$. Without merchandise. Even with merchandise i can´t really believe this. Not with the sales we know, and not with the response the franchise was getting from Sega back then.
According to her in an interview awhile back she said that both games were 4 sessions totaling 16hrs for 4k each.

The only feasible way you can even get to that number thrown around is by adding Smash as a royalty. Even then I’m not sure if that makes it a 4.5m franchise.
 

Fularu

Atari nous sommes tous des Dieux
Member
With how the game sales went, I don't think the whole franchise broke 6 millions totals (and I'm counting the double packs as single sales each here, which increases the total number)

There's no chance of the franchise beeing 450 million, I'm not even sure it's beyond 200 million (that would mean an average sales price of $40 at 5 million units sold, $33 at 6 and $20 at 10 million and there's 0 chance of the franchise having sold that many units lifetime)
 
With such numbers Sega would milked the franchise to the max, i mean they hold on to Yakuza back then [and that was definitive not a cheap production] and as far i know didn´t even get to do 1.000.000 copies. At least without the PlayStation the Best-Version.
 

Gina Lestrade

Member
Pronouns
He/him
After having only heard one side of the story I'm with JP Kellams here in believing that we don't know everything about this situation and that certain people are getting some really undeserved abuse. Hopefully when/if we do hear the full story it clarifies the situation enough that it wasn't made with any hostility at all. I mean the voice actor for Kratos for example was replaced and I remember 0 controversy over that so the situation isn't unprecedented even though Taylor's attachment to the character is 100% understandable so it sucks for her.

Also the game will probably sell fine, even games/consoles made under forced/slaved labour can't enforce a boycott worth a damn which is a damn shame so I foresee a VA getting a low offer to reprise their role being similarly ineffective.
 
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MegaXZero

Member
After having only heard one side of the story I'm with JP Kellams here in believing that we don't know everything about this situation and that certain people are getting some r
I mean judging by his other deleted tweet, he seems to actually know something. Given how he was a big proponent of hers before today, it makes those comments even more interesting.
 

Gina Lestrade

Member
Pronouns
He/him
I mean judging by his other deleted tweet, he seems to actually know something. Given how he was a big proponent of hers before today, it makes those comments even more interesting.
Yeah due to other NDAs that people aren't as willing to break we may never know the full picture but here's hoping Nintendo/Platinum provide some clarity in the coming days...
 

Ishaan

Localization, Historian, Reporter
Member
Then I'd like to further clarify that apparently she herself stated that her VA job for Bayonetta 1 took 16 hours of recording. And the whole "setting up, calibration of equipment" etc. wouldn't be done by the VA, but the tech staff.

Couple of things to clarify here:

1. I'm aware of what Hellena Taylor said Bayonetta 1 took, but Bayonetta 3 appears to have more dialogue and story for Bayonetta herself specifically, especially given that there's multiple versions of the character now, and we're assuming that Hellena was meant to voice them all. Furthermore, Taylor is also a member of SAG, and they have a rate card for performers, which indicate that you earn a minimum of $250 per hour, with a minimum of two hours, and higher if you voice multiple characters. (This is why Sean Chiplock, who voiced Revali, Teba, and the Deku tree in BOTW got paid approximately $2000-3000 for a relatively smaller amount of dialogue—because he was doing multiple voices.)​
2. Taylor also says that the $4000 offer was made after she reached out to Kamiya personally, so whatever they were offering her prior to that was definitely a lowball. (Again, assuming that Hellena was originally meant to voice every incarnation of Bayo in the game. The missing piece of the puzzle is whether they originally only wanted her to voice one version of Bayo with much less on-screen time.)​
3. Regarding calibration of equipment, I don't mean the VA has to calibrate the equipment themselves, but they do need to be present for the process. Actual recording doesn't begin until you've done a few trials prior to the start of each session, and for that you very much need the voice actor present in the studio. There's definitely ways to do this effciently, such as doing a lot of the prep beforehand and having recording sessions go on for longer, but it does still add up over the course of several days/weeks/whatever.​

My basic point was that it isn't simple as boiling it down to "if it's only a couple weeks, $4000 isn't bad." There's a reason bodies like SAG exist, and it's to make sure that people are fairly compensated for the amount of work they're required to do. Nobody's trying to call you out—it's simply a question of making sure that all the relevant information is cited when we make statements about someone's worth.

Also, to clarify, I'm not saying PG or Nintendo were/are in the wrong—far from it. For all we know, we're only getting one side of the story and a warped/partial version of events. But either way, it is important to make sure people have all the basic facts that we do know available to them.
 
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MegaXZero

Member
1. I'm aware of what Hellena Taylor said Bayonetta 1 took, but Bayonetta 3 appears to have more dialogue and story for Bayonetta herself specifically, especially given that there's multiple versions of the character now, and we're assuming that Hellena was meant to voice them all. Furthermore, Taylor is also a member of SAG, and they have a rate card for performers, which indicate that you earn a minimum of $450 per hour, and up to over $900 an hour if it involves voicing multiple characters. (This is why Sean Chiplock, who voiced Revali, Teba, and the Deku tree in BOTW got paid approximately $2000-3000 for a relatively smaller amount of dialogue—because he was doing multiple voices.)
It's not $900/hr, it's $956/ 4 hour day.

 

Ishaan

Localization, Historian, Reporter
Member
It's not $900/hr, it's $956/ 4 hour day.



Aha. I hadn't seen that tweet, and it looks like I misunderstood the SAG rate card. My bad--I'll edit my post. Thanks for the clarification!

Edit: That said, I would say the original point still stands—that Bayo 3 has multiple incarnations of the character, with some of them even appearing to interact with one another, and that the $4000 rate was offered after Hellena reached out to Kamiya and asked for a higher rate.
 

Fularu

Atari nous sommes tous des Dieux
Member
Couple of things to clarify here:

1. I'm aware of what Hellena Taylor said Bayonetta 1 took, but Bayonetta 3 appears to have more dialogue and story for Bayonetta herself specifically, especially given that there's multiple versions of the character now, and we're assuming that Hellena was meant to voice them all. Furthermore, Taylor is also a member of SAG, and they have a rate card for performers, which indicate that you earn a minimum of $450 per hour, and up to over $900 an hour if it involves voicing multiple characters. (This is why Sean Chiplock, who voiced Revali, Teba, and the Deku tree in BOTW got paid approximately $2000-3000 for a relatively smaller amount of dialogue—because he was doing multiple voices.)​
2. Taylor also says that the $4000 offer was made after she reached out to Kamiya personally, so whatever they were offering her prior to that was definitely a lowball. (Again, assuming that Hellena was originally meant to voice every incarnation of Bayo in the game. The missing piece of the puzzle is whether they originally only wanted her to voice one version of Bayo with much less on-screen time.)​
3. Regarding calibration of equipment, I don't mean the VA has to calibrate the equipment themselves, but they do need to be present for the process. Actual recording doesn't begin until you've done a few trials prior to the start of each session, and for that you very much need the voice actor present in the studio. There's definitely ways to do this effciently, such as doing a lot of the prep beforehand and having recording sessions go on for longer, but it does still add up over the course of several days/weeks/whatever.​

My basic point was that it isn't simple as boiling it down to "if it's only a couple weeks, $4000 isn't bad." There's a reason bodies like SAG exist, and it's to make sure that people are fairly compensated for the amount of work they're required to do. Nobody's trying to call you out—it's simply a question of making sure that all the relevant information is cited when we make statements about someone's worth.

Also, to clarify, I'm not saying PG or Nintendo were/are in the wrong—far from it. For all we know, we're only getting one side of the story and a warped/partial version of events. But either way, it is important to make sure people have all the basic facts that we do know available to them.
1 - we're assuming that Hellena was meant to voice them all : You shouldn't and you're quite literally jumping to conclusions
2 - they have a rate card for performers, which indicate that you earn a minimum of $450 per hour, and up to over $900 an hour if it involves voicing multiple characters. : No, you aren't reading this right. It's $900 per 4 hours for 1 to 3 voices. Sean was paid the regular $225 fee per hour. He explicitely said so himself
3 - The $4000 increase means her role was less than 16 hours if it was raised after the facts, meaning her role was small to begin with. Again you're making assumptions based on little to no evidence (your lowball claim).
4 - Bayonetta 1 took 16 hours including everything and she was probably paid less than the actual $4k rate because at the time (2011) hourly rates were much lower.
 

Tokuiten

Infected with 'Xenoblade'. 御免なさい🙇‍♀️
Member
Couple of things to clarify here:

1. I'm aware of what Hellena Taylor said Bayonetta 1 took, but Bayonetta 3 appears to have more dialogue and story for Bayonetta herself specifically, especially given that there's multiple versions of the character now, and we're assuming that Hellena was meant to voice them all. Furthermore, Taylor is also a member of SAG, and they have a rate card for performers, which indicate that you earn a minimum of $450 per hour, and up to over $900 an hour if it involves voicing multiple characters. (This is why Sean Chiplock, who voiced Revali, Teba, and the Deku tree in BOTW got paid approximately $2000-3000 for a relatively smaller amount of dialogue—because he was doing multiple voices.)​
2. Taylor also says that the $4000 offer was made after she reached out to Kamiya personally, so whatever they were offering her prior to that was definitely a lowball. (Again, assuming that Hellena was originally meant to voice every incarnation of Bayo in the game. The missing piece of the puzzle is whether they originally only wanted her to voice one version of Bayo with much less on-screen time.)​
3. Regarding calibration of equipment, I don't mean the VA has to calibrate the equipment themselves, but they do need to be present for the process. Actual recording doesn't begin until you've done a few trials prior to the start of each session, and for that you very much need to the voice actor present in the studio. There's definitely ways to do this effciently, such as doing a lot of the prep beforehand and having recording sessions go on for longer, but it does still add up over the course of several days/weeks/whatever.​

My basic point was that it isn't simple as boiling it down to "if it's only a couple weeks, $4000 isn't bad." There's a reason bodies like SAG exist, and it's to make sure that people are fairly compensated for the amount of work they're required to do. Nobody's trying to call you out—it's simply a question of making sure that all the relevant information is cited when we make statements about someone's worth.

Also, to clarify, I'm not saying PG or Nintendo were/are in the wrong—far from it. For all we know, we're only getting one side of the story and a warped/partial version of events. But either way, it is important to make sure people have all the basic facts that we do know available to them.
Besides my strong opinion that anyone who earns 4000 Dollars for doing 16 hours of work a month is VERY well paid:

You're making a lot of assumptions here, unless you know more than anybody else. Bayonetta 3 isn't out yet, so we don't know about amount of dialogue and "incarnations". Someone made a good point that Platinum simply doesn't want her to voice Bayonetta anymore, so they offered her the minimum wage as a "polite" way to show her the exit. The reasoning was that she is the only voice actress involved in the franchise that's not from the USA, but UK, thus complicating the development process.

Then there's also the most simple possibility of her role in Bayonetta 3 having much less lines, thus getting paid 4000 Dollars for actually doing less than in past games.

That Platinum actually intends to underpay her makes no sense when the new voice actress appears to be higher paid and a galion figure in the fight for fairly paid voice acting.

My final word on this is that unless we hear the other side of the story or she tells some actual illegal behavior (paying her minimum wage might be disappointing, but it's neither illegal nor worth all the outrage), this is a nothingburger and fans of Bayonetta shouldn't kill the franchise that Nintendo revived out of pure goodwill and prestige so lightly. If Bayonetta 3 underperforms because of this, the only losers will be fans.
 

Ishaan

Localization, Historian, Reporter
Member
1 - we're assuming that Hellena was meant to voice them all : You shouldn't and you're quite literally jumping to conclusions
2 - they have a rate card for performers, which indicate that you earn a minimum of $450 per hour, and up to over $900 an hour if it involves voicing multiple characters. : No, you aren't reading this right. It's $900 per 4 hours for 1 to 3 voices. Sean was paid the regular $225 fee per hour. He explicitely said so himself
3 - The $4000 increase means her role was less than 16 hours if it was raised after the facts, meaning her role was small to begin with. Again you're making assumptions based on little to no evidence (your lowball claim).
4 - Bayonetta 1 took 16 hours including everything and she was probably paid less than the actual $4k rate because at the time (2011) hourly rates were much lower.

Yeah, I had my wires crossed on the rate card. @MegaXZero linked me to Sean's post with the proper breakdown, and I edited my original post. That said, I do think the point still stands (again, under the assumption that Hellena was meant to voice every version of Bayonetta). Again, I don't think we can definitively say one side was in the wrong, but I did want to make sure we weren't boiling it down to "I think that sounds okay" without attempting some sort of dissection of the subject matter.

My final word on this is that unless we hear the other side of the story or she tells some actual illegal behavior (paying her minimum wage might be disappointing, but it's neither illegal nor worth all the outrage), this is a nothingburger and fans of Bayonetta shouldn't kill the franchise that Nintendo revived out of pure goodwill and prestige so lightly. If Bayonetta 3 underperforms because of this, the only losers will be fans.

Relax, dude. Nobody's trying to kill the franchise in here. We're all excited for Bayonentta 3.
 

Fularu

Atari nous sommes tous des Dieux
Member
Hellena decided of her own volition to not take the job, and since she's a SAG member, the initial offer couldn't have been below their hourly rates. She made the decision to not take the job, as such, I hardly feel any feeling towards her disapointment and even less towards her calling out the replacing actress, the call for boycott and her scorched eath behavior.

Reeks of entitlement when PG has every right to change whoever they feel like for any given role if they have an issue. They offered her the role first, she declined, that should be the end of it.
 

MegaXZero

Member
Edit: That said, I would say the original point still stands—that Bayo 3 has multiple incarnations of the character, with some of them even appearing to interact with one another, and that the $4000 rate was offered after Hellena reached out to Kamiya and asked for a higher rate.
This is definitely an issue to think about since she is union, as well as the project itself given the other characters, they can't really pay her less then the minimum without incurring legal issues which should have been addressed by now if that was the case. So then it comes to, whatever they were willing to pay before the $4000 would have been at least dictated by time they expected with her. Unless SAG is really, really bad at handling these issues which should be slam dunks for them.
 

Vergus

Member
Pronouns
He
Well Bayonetta end here I guess.
To much trouble to keep this IP alive for Nintendo and it barely make any money.
They should focus in Astral Chain 2 or make another IP with Platinum, Bayonetta fanbase are a bunch of petty people than dont deserve money.
So many people saying pirate the game instead of buy it made me realize they don't deserve nothing.



That face when we literally have this emulation debate a while ago and pirates are ruining the reputation of emulation again.
 

RDragon

Member


That face when we literally have this emulation debate a while ago and pirates are ruining the reputation of emulation again.


Pirates who try to play they have the moral high ground is always cringe. It's especially annoying that the point of a boycott is to make a personal sacrifice for a cause: like not riding the bus when it's less expensive than taking a cab and you have no easy access to car, but these people just want to have their cake and eat it. Namely, they want to pretend to have the moral high ground and still get what they want so they make no personal sacrifice.

Also, 'Bayonatta is a role of a lifetime'. I love the series, but come on.
 

BTB123

Can't wait for TotK
Member
For now LATAM and Spanish reviewers even some loved ones.
Read some independent reviewers in Era say is the morally right thing to do.
Some even asking ban the discussion of the game.
If this get worse more reviewers are gonna have the pressure of follow what others do.
These are just immature virtue signallers with a twisted moral compass.
 

tolkir

Base instalada
Member
For now LATAM and Spanish reviewers even some loved ones.

Give us receipts because I don't see it. Most of Spanish forums are nothing like Resetera, people are saying that they're sad with the news but they're going to buy the game.
 
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Fularu

Atari nous sommes tous des Dieux
Member
Give us receipts because I don't see it. Most of Spanish forums are nothing like Resetera and people are saying that they're sad with the news but they're going to buy the game.
The response on Era truly baffles me.
 

Fularu

Atari nous sommes tous des Dieux
Member
it's a Nintendo Switch exclusive game, we are talking about.
I just learned that Bayonetta is both Iconic and one of the most recognizabke new character this side of the 21th century. The hyperbole is in full overdrive.
 

Fularu

Atari nous sommes tous des Dieux
Member
I wonder how she got the 450 million number. Is she counting each copy sold * 60 to get it? even so it doesn't cover it.
She has no idea how much the games sold. HEck most of Bayonetta's sales (the first game) were late sub $20 ones or bundled for free with Bayo 2 on WiiU and Switch.

All signs point to the franchise beeing between 5 and 6 millions all things considered, so barely more than DMC V on its own.
 

BoktaiFan

Member
Pronouns
He/Him
One data point I found interesting from twitter is that bayo 3 actually climbed up the amazon charts in the US from #48 up to number #38 today.

Could be the old saying is true and all publicity is good
 

ILikeFeet

Member
Mad World is really a unique take in gaming. There's nothing quite like it.

And it's absolutely stunning visually
I still remember the responses to the announcement that the soundtrack was gonna be rap music

it was...interesting to say the least
 

BTB123

Can't wait for TotK
Member
I just learned that Bayonetta is both Iconic and one of the most recognizabke new character this side of the 21th century. The hyperbole is in full overdrive.
These people live in a bubble. They don't know anything about the real world. And obviously also nothing about sales numbers.
 

Daremo

Member
So about the english VA :
Isn't Bayonetta dying very early? She might actually have a very limited amount of voices compared to 1 and 2.
 

cw_sasuke

Member
B3 was supposed to be PG big break after lots of subpar projects recently, having this kinda thing blow up in your face just when you about to reach the finish line must be a nightmare.

Probably like 60 people that worked on the game for the last 4 years and then you hear the person who was part of the first two games just publically rally people to boycott the game.
 

Joseki

Member
The funniest thing to me is how this blow up entirely on a "she said, he said" with zero receipts.

The internet really gets entertained easily.
 

SkyerIst

Member
Looks like game is selling out on Amazon worldwide...

US

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UK

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FR

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JP

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Edit: Maybe not (read posts below)...
 
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This backclash is going to have the opposite effect of what Hellena Taylor ask.

Bayonetta is top Tweet since 24H.
This give a big spotlight on a small franchise.

Sometime bad press is still press
 
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Gina Lestrade

Member
Pronouns
He/him
I don't really think all news/press is good news/press, even for a franchise/game as niche as Bayonetta. I don't doubt there are some people who will now refrain from buying this game who mightn't have otherwise, but yeah like I said above it's just not a shocking/damaging enough controversy to make a difference in a negative sense. The Switch is a system where good/great games sell very well, and has been like that for 5 years and counting with few exceptions. I don't think Bayonetta 3 will be one of those exceptions.
 

Joseki

Member
The boycott needs to survive the PR/damage control that I think will happen in the next days, reviews and D1 hype to have any chance of being effective.
 
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