[Nikkei/Rumor] Next Switch development is "progressing well", due in 2024

[Terrell]

I think they have done a decent job at that given the change we've seen in the western space. it's just that Nintendo offered more to publishers they were lacking in. it makes me wonder if there are business reasons relating to that for Bamco and Sega. SE and Capcom get some benefits that we aren't seeing with the other two, and I wonder if it has to do with historical support not being as lackluster (though one can easily say the same for SE and Capcom, but Nintendo does more for them, because they reap more rewards)

The difference is largely upper management and internal engine support.

Within 2 years of Nagoshi being taken off the board of directors and stripped of his Chief Creative Officer title, suddenly Sega is singing a slightly different tune with Switch in exceedingly noticeable ways. Meanwhile, Harada is in charge at Bandai Namco.

Additionally, while Capcom eventually had to do a specialized RE Engine work-up for MHR to support expanded vision in light of its market performance, MT Framework was quickly accommodated for Switch. Likewise, outside BDU1 and 3 at Square, Unreal Engine 4 or Unity ruled the roost, so Switch reaped benefits there by being supported in UE4/Unity. The same cannot be said for Dragon Engine and whatever tools Atlus had been using.

A combination of these factors is what leads to the circumstances of which publishers are and are not present. And when something about these factors changes (see example: Astral Chain convincing Square Enix that Nier Automata would be doable on Switch since both were made by Platinum and therefore utilize the same or similar engine), so will the support.

 

[Aleh]

Even if the relative gap between Switch 2 and PS5 is the same as Switch and PS4, there will still be fewer issues with ported games because one of the main problems was how blurry games looked, not that they had pared back graphics. That’s why DLSS is a big help. A super scaled back PS5 game running at high res thanks to DLSS will still look way better than the Witcher 3 did on Switch, and at that point porting games makes even more sense because the system is still portable.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Additionally, while Capcom eventually had to do a specialized RE Engine work-up for MHR to support expanded vision in light of its market performance, MT Framework was quickly accommodated for Switch. Likewise, outside BDU1 and 3 at Square, Unreal Engine 4 or Unity ruled the roost, so Switch reaped benefits there by being supported in UE4/Unity. The same cannot be said for Dragon Engine and whatever tools Atlus had been using.

Dragon Engine sounded more like it has been in its death bed for longer than we expected. I don't think the engine had too many updates since the start of the generation and then the remake comes along on ue4 and a discussion about whether or not to swap tools. Atlus is atlus and don't seem to have much to engineering.

Regardless, it's not so much of a hardware problem but a lack of desire to put in the work for support. I find it harder to believe in supporting Switch from a tools perspective being problematic than anything else.

 

[Terrell]

Dragon Engine sounded more like it has been in its death bed for longer than we expected. I don't think the engine had too many updates since the start of the generation and then the remake comes along on ue4 and a discussion about whether or not to swap tools. Atlus is atlus and don't seem to have much to engineering.

Regardless, it's not so much of a hardware problem but a lack of desire to put in the work for support. I find it harder to believe in supporting Switch from a tools perspective being problematic than anything else.

And yet, when you actually view support from a tools perspective, a lot of things make better sense, with very few exceptions in either direction. And it's not about the conversion of tools being "problematic", there has to be the will and money to put the time in first, and a willingness to trim certain features off the engine to get it working on Switch second; both hurdles need clearing. These necessities were deficient to non-existent at certain publishers/developers but not an issue in the slightest at others.

 

[ILikeFeet]

And yet, when you actually view support from a tools perspective, a lot of things make better sense, with very few exceptions in either direction. And it's not about the conversion of tools being "problematic", there has to be the will and money to put the time in first, and a willingness to trim certain features off the engine to get it working on Switch second; both hurdles need clearing. These necessities were deficient to non-existent at certain publishers/developers but not an issue in the slightest at others.

I don't see how this goes against what I'm saying. tools are only the problem because the leads in question don't want to support the system. what does Nintendo have to do to change their minds? roll out the red carpet like they've done for SE, Capcom, WB, CDPR, etc? because I don't think they stand to gain as much with Sega and Bamco as they do with these other studios. there is room for Bamco's and Sega's success, Nintendo doesn't need to send the limos to a steak dinner for them for nothing but licensing money

 

[mariodk18]

Whether something happens or not, I feel we should be more criticial of certain publisher decisions and not be like "ah well, Bandai Namco not supporting Switch is normal, whatever". Of course, that doesn't mean we need to talk about it every week

You’re right- we need to talk about it everyday.

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

旺宏3D Nand 96層產品今年可放量 主供遊戲機業-MoneyDJ理財網

旺宏(2337)今年雖面臨大環境消費景氣差，持續減產，但在研發進度以及研發費用上，公司則未縮手，公司目前新產品的開發如進度進行，3D Nand flash 96層產品已陸續給客戶sample，主攻遊戲機產業，等對方驗證後，...

www.moneydj.com

Macronix (2337) this year, although facing the general environment of poor consumer sentiment, continued to reduce production, but in the progress of research and development and research and development costs, the company has not shrunk, the company's current new product development as progressed, 3D Nand flash 96-layer products have been gradually given to customers sample, the main focus of the game machine industry, and so on the other side of the verification, this year is expected to be released.

In addition to 3D Nand flash 96-layer products, 192-layer products are also progressing smoothly, with the goal of mass production next year. Macronix's current 3D Nand flash products are mainly used in the gaming industry, with specific application markets, rather than competing with the world's largest memory manufacturers.

In addition, Macronix is also developing 3D Nor flash to achieve high capacity on the one hand, and to perform with good read quality compared to traditional Nor flash on the other, and good progress has been made so far.

Credits to Hartmann at Nintendo Future Hardware on Famiboards

 

[Terrell]

旺宏3D Nand 96層產品今年可放量 主供遊戲機業-MoneyDJ理財網

旺宏(2337)今年雖面臨大環境消費景氣差，持續減產，但在研發進度以及研發費用上，公司則未縮手，公司目前新產品的開發如進度進行，3D Nand flash 96層產品已陸續給客戶sample，主攻遊戲機產業，等對方驗證後，...

www.moneydj.com

Credits to Hartmann at Nintendo Future Hardware on Famiboards

When they say “gaming machine”, I am reminded they could be referring to gambling devices and not video game consoles.

I don't see how this goes against what I'm saying. tools are only the problem because the leads in question don't want to support the system. what does Nintendo have to do to change their minds? roll out the red carpet like they've done for SE, Capcom, WB, CDPR, etc? because I don't think they stand to gain as much with Sega and Bamco as they do with these other studios. there is room for Bamco's and Sega's success, Nintendo doesn't need to send the limos to a steak dinner for them for nothing but licensing money

At this point, Nintendo has to do very little. With a technological advance on their end, it becomes a lot more economical to get support for tools up and running when those tools are still being used to make PS4 software in 2023. They don’t have to wine and dine obstructive upper management, they don’t have to do much of anything other than just make the tool solution economical enough that the people being obstructive are overruled by the individuals they report to who can easily identify the economical advantages of getting engines/tools working on the next Nintendo hardware. And that, of course, is under the assumption that such individuals are so obstinate that they would not come to the reasonable conclusion on their own, which remains to be seen.
Simply put, these two considerations have significant interplay with one another on this issue and has as much to do with money and resources as it does folks at publishers just saying they don’t wanna.

 

[Pipe Dreamer]

When they say “gaming machine”, I am reminded they could be referring to gambling devices and not video game consoles.

The original Chinese very clearly means gaming-gaming and not gambling-gaming.

EDIT: Also, the machine translation kind of mangled the last sentence of the first paragraph. What it said is "production is expected to greatly increase this year once the customer completes its verification."

 

[Terrell]

The original Chinese very clearly means gaming-gaming and not gambling-gaming.

EDIT: Also, the machine translation kind of mangled the last sentence of the first paragraph. What it said is "production is expected to greatly increase this year once the customer completes its verification."

So it's another report stating Macronix is providing 3D NAND to Nintendo. Considering the last report of this kind back in 2019 (with a 2020 delivery) became an absolute nothingburger, I'm not holding my breath, but I'd absolutely believe that Nintendo is receiving part samples as part of bidding for the NAND flash part contract on Nintendo's next hardware along with every other supplier in the space.

 

[ILikeFeet]

it's not crazy that Macronix has been sampling product back in 2019. the why they never been delivered can be debated, but a product like this undergoing constant R&D should be expected

 

[duvjones]

The why they never been delivered can be debated, but a product like this undergoing constant R&D should be expected

If I am to make a guess at that, I would suspect that it would have something to do with either power delivery or thermal management.

AMD's X3D CPU line is known to have this issue, it's part of the reason the chips are locked (it also explains recently overvolt issues with board partners) in a attempt to control that. As of late back-side power delivery has been a talking point with stacks. So maybe something like that is keeping Macronix from bring this to market?