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Not being tied to the ps swamp would be a great start. The good ol Sony bag of money isn't worth it.
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How would you make for Final Fantasy to return to be a multi million seller?(4M-8M launch).
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The only answer is to release the games on the Switch at the same time. That is where the overwhelming majority of console gamers are at in Japan and although the audience for an FF game is cumulatively larger outside Japan now, if you don't have the game on the Switch, you're cutting off any chance of major success in Japan when comparing vs historical precedent.
Like monster hunter did?
Square Enix makes JRPG games, a pretty niche genre where 5 million copies sold is often the upper limits of sales. So if you make games in a niche genre, its more logical to try to port the game to everything. I don't think a JRPG game needs to be so advanced that it can't be downported to Switch 2, given what we know about the specs of the console.
jRPGs are definitely not niche, Elden Ring and Pokémon sell a lot, and are bigger sellers than Final Fantasy right now, like Persona and Nier.
I’m pretty sure they’re talking about the type of games that Final Fantasy games have been, a single player game with a pre determined character and story line that you progress through in a very linear fashion.
That genre does seem to have a much smaller ceiling compared to multiplayer and create your own character/narative games like Pokemon and Elder Scrolls.
We already know FF can make a lot more money per entry by utilizing those mechanics because they’ve made incredibly profitable MMOs and mobile games, but those aren’t what we’re talking about.
That genre does seem to have a much smaller ceiling compared to multiplayer and create your own character/narative games like Pokemon and Elder Scrolls.
We already know FF can make a lot more money per entry by utilizing those mechanics because they’ve made incredibly profitable MMOs and mobile games, but those aren’t what we’re talking about.
I don't think we know how well Monster Hunter has done on the PS5 in Japan yet. I specifically said console success in Japan. FF has always relied heavily on Japanese sales figures for its overall success and they're just cutting off a larger percentage of their local audience than otherwise by skipping the Switch.
We already have data with monster hunter worlds
Is this thread about sales in Japan or total lifetimes sales?
Zelda is a 20-30m IP right now, Resident Evil is selling 10m+ units, narrative focused Sony IPs are also big.
Those are even more different than the other games being mentioned.
We can spend all day poking holes in arbitrary genre names and descriptions, this isn’t an exact science. But those games are very clearly not the same thing as what we’re talking about with FF unless you think a survival horror like RE is a good model to chase after.
RE actually has a few examples of strengths S-E should be looking at for FF once you look beyond "survival horror":
-RE was the spearhead for a multiplatform in-house engine that has been mostly highly beneficial to the company, and even scaled down to Switch very successfully
-RE production management has maintained a good pace of releases even despite some production wobbles (e.g. running a 3rd person and 1st person series of mainline titles side by side, RE3make production being pulled back in-house quite late in response to the breakout success of RE2make)
-RE production management tend to implicitly understand the core appeal of RE. So they know the right context for introducing major changes that still fit within the series (the changes in perspective in both RE4 and RE7, adding co-op in RE5) vs when those changes are too much and should be spun out (Devil May Cry, the various spinoff subseries)
Elden Ring is not a traditional JRPG like Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy, in terms of its traditional gameplay is more comparable to something like Dragon Quest than the gameplay of Elden Ring. And the sales ceiling for JRPG games is a lot lower than for stuff like Monster Hunter and Elden Ring. For a FF game, to even hit 10 million in lifetime sales is a gigantic achievement, while that is more like the launch sales of MH.
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I'm going to ignore you because I don't care to interact with you and you're just ignoring things out of hand. Good luck.
All of this stuff about "sales ceiling" also applied to the Monster Hunter and FromSoft titles you're mentioning that were written off as niche for 15+ years, until they suddenly weren't. There is nothing intrinsic to JRPGs that puts an arbitrary sales limit on them over and above any other genre, I can't think of a time when both turn-based games and Japanese/anime aesthetics have ever been more popular among the public.
We can discuss what is the reason why JRPG games have lower sales potential than western RPGs like Skyrim, Witcher, and non JRPG japanese games like Elden Ring. But i think it has to do with a lot of RPG players not enjoying JRPG games focus on a set party with a pre determined story, with less focus on customization. So to get the larger RPG community to buy a JRPG game, those things will have to be changed, but if you change those things then you alienate the traditional JRPG fanbase.
The right call if you feel something is in bad faith. Just privately message the poster to explain what's going on. Didn't need to post you were doing it though.
I'm not sure where you're pulling FFVII doing 11m with no remasters/re-releases etc counted. FFVII hit 11m by 2015 which is counting around 7 platforms (PS1, PC, PSP, PS3 as PS one classics, iOS, Android and Steam) of releases and multiple of them being ports, plus that is counting the greatest hits rerelease which released in 2000 and priced at $20. By 2005 VII was at 9.8m sold when it was on PS1 and PC, where that PC version was confirmed by Eidos to have sold 1m, and by that time FFVII had its characters been featured in games like FF Tactics, Ergheiz, Kingdom Hearts, Kingdom Hearts CoM, Kingdom Hearts 2 as well as VII getting FFVII Advent Children, a full CG feature FF7 film in 2005, and FF7 Before Crisis had all released by then. VII's 9.8m figure even specifically announced in a press release in 2006 (dated as 2005) for FF7 Crisis Core leading up to its release as another high profile upcoming FFVII game, with another PS2 FFVII game FFVII Dirge of Cerberus releasing in 2006. That deluge of FFVII compilation contributed to an increase of sales for VII, but even then it would take until around the PSP/PS3 version of the PS1 classics to release before FFVII would even hit 10 million, which is over 10 years after release.
In comparison, XV's anime and movie were merely just from the advertising budget of XV itself, rather than as separate projects, and the movie (which was made from repurposed game CG) was never even planned for a theatrical release outside japan, in fact it only got one in the west and outside Japan because fans demanded SE give it one, which SE then announced later in June 2016 that it would get a limited theatrical run due to fan demand, whatever plans for the movie they had they only planned on it through it packed in the FFXV UCE and Deluxe copies, plus any digital purchases, with only the Japanese version having a planned theatrical release in Japan only at only around 40 theatres.
Stuff like DLC are just modern conveniences that would have otherwise just been what FFVII did in the FFVII International release or side games, which added in entire story sequences, bosses, even completely changed Sephiroth's boss data in the International release, plus Zack's death scene getting added which wasn't even in the original Japanese FFVII that sold over 3.5 million in Japan alone. Also practically all of FFVII's advertising was just the FMV's too, while Kingsglaive for XV is just repurposed FMV's that they made on a relatively cheaper budget thanks to heavy use of outsourcing, and an A1 pictures free anime that was also relatively cheap to produce (which even Persona 5 had a prelease anime by A1 too), while VII had the biggest at time marketing budget any JRPG had ever received.
The majority of the stuff that XV received after release was also content made due to fan demand, which in a modern context is easier to do as DLC/patches, which back in the late 90s/early 00s that kind of content would just be their own side game and forced you to rebuy the entire game in a rerelease, which is what FF7 International, FF7 Crisis Core, Before Crisis and Dirge of Cerberus were, they were direct answers to things fans wanted to know, such as more about Zack who was barely featured in VII and who's death scene was only in the International version of VII, so the 3.5m Japanese vanilla players never would have seen that, more about the Turks and Avalanche who are barely delved into in VII who get delved into in depth in Before Crisis, more about Vincent and Yuffie who were optional characters who got featured heavily in Dirge, and Advent Children telling the story of what actually happens at the end of VII which the OG game left vague. By the time Crisis Core had released FFVII was just barely scratching at 10m, it would not be until 2015 that VII would hit 11 million.
In comparison XV hit 10m in a 5 and a half years, its been nearly 3 years since then now, at the rate it was selling at is most likely nearing 12 million by now, and the majority of sales beyond the 6m it did at launch would have not even been affected by the marketing campaign leading up to its release. Anecdotally I still see people who have played XV surprised to hear there is a FFXV anime and movie, I don't really know why people put so much stock into a free 5 episode youtube anime short and a movie fans had to beg SE to even put in theaters only to get a limited run as the reason XV sold 5m day 1. Even if it didn't have the anime and movie it in all likelihood would've still sold 5m day 1 anyway because the game trailers and public demos in the last 2 years prior to release are what sold the game, not anime episodes and a movie released just a month prior. I can also guarantee you that Advent Children received a much bigger marketing campaign than Kingsglaive got. Regardless of whether it was before or after the game released, the difference is clear because FFVII is about Cloud, the protagonist of FFVII, while Kingsglaive follows mostly unknown characters that were just revealed to us for the first time in the movie, with none of the main game party in it (outside post credits cameo) and any characters anyone would've known would only have already known them by watching previous XV game trailers and actively following XV's development.
Also on that subject of following development, this "oh but it was 10 years lead up" means nothing. FFXV proper was revealed to the public in 2013, it released 2016. Most people who bought XV have never heard of Versus XIII, and this is true simply from the trailer views that Versus XIII had on youtube by the time FFXV released.
There is only 1 Versus XIII trailer on youtube officially uploaded by SE which is the 2011 trailer, it currently has like 4m views but back when XV released it had 3 million views, and when FFXV in 2013 was announced it had only around 1 million views, every other Versus XIII trailer on youtube that was uploaded before XV released has barely a few hundred thousand views to in the barely tens thousands, and any of those is unofficially uploaded since all of those trailers were only shown behind closed doors or put on event exclusive DVD's at Japan only events. Obviously nobody could've predicted Youtube would get as big as it is now back in 2006 but those early Versus trailers simply had barely any views in comparison to any FFXV trailers did by the time XV released. Its only now years after release, as well as after KH3 recreated numerous Versus XIII scenes that those Versus XIII trailers shot up in views, as well as any newer HD uploads of it that also only got uploaded after XV released, but that was not the case leading up to XV or by the time XV had released.
The type of person who would've known about it were gaming enthusiasts and forum goers, people reading gaming magazines, on top of that anything for Versus XIII prior to 2011 was only a CGI cutscene, by 2011 is the only actual gameplay SE ever uploaded for Versus XIII, and by the time XV released that Versus trailer 3 million views over the span of 5 years, and there were 2 other versus trailers which one with 2m and one with 3m views by the time XV released, with those being 6 to 7 years worth of views accumulated, while in comparison multiple FFXV game trailers in 2016 alone had 2 million to 3+ million views in the span of a few months and the TGS FFXV 2014 trailer, aka the first trailer Tabata revealed had around 4 million views, and around 1 million people played the Episode Duscae demo that came with Type-0 HD in 2015. People overstate how much Versus had any impact on XV's "hype". As someone who was there day 1, people always treated Versus as a mere spinoff no different to Type-0 or Dissidia, even XIII-2 was getting views on par with Versus XIII was, it wasn't until it became XV in 2013 that it actually got huge attention, once that happened people went back and started looking at those older Versus trailers which lead to an increase in those trailer views, and it was the Tabata era XV game trailers getting high views in quick succession and a faster pace than Versus ever did, and his demos that sold the game to the masses moreso than anything before the 2 years leading up to release.
This "oh but it was 10 years!" argument also falls completely flat when you consider FF7 Remake, a game that was demanded ever since the 2005 FF7 PS3 tech demo, which as it turns out Nomura was planning FF7 Remake since 2005 and the only reason the demand came to a fever pitch was because of that PS3 tech demo that was actually shown to the masses publicly, a game with over a decade of anticipation and demand yet it couldn't meet XV's sales, even with Rebirth combined. That's not even addressing the fact that FF7 is a known entity with a wealth of FF7 material to accompany it by the time FF7R had released, and you could generally know what to expect with regards to it being remade in terms of characters, story, locations, game systems, music, etc.
With XV, if you claim "oh but versus" thats what? barely 15 minutes of CGI cutscenes with most of those CG being placeholder designs in concept CG scenes that never would've even been used had Versus even released anyway, and only 2 music tracks ever used in all the trailers for it and barely 1-2 minute of early prototype gameplay with just basic attacks being shown? Versus was nothing, it is severely overstated any supposed impact it had on XV sales, that's not even going into the fact that XV has kept on selling long after release, long after the point where anyone who would've cared about Versus would know XV is not that, but hmmm that didn't stop it from continually selling at a faster pace than any other FF.
All things considered, XV is the best performing FF by far. FF7's lifetime sales after over 25 years are 14.4m, it will not take long for XV to catch up and over take that, and considering XV is still only on 3 platforms vs VII on like 10 platforms now, like yeah. If XV ever gets a Switch 2 release then it'll probably happen even sooner. This is also not even going into the fact that for 20+ years FFVII has cost less than $20 and most of it sales in the last 15 or so years have been at $6 to $12/$15, while XV's default price is still currently $35 digitally where its sale price would be $17.50 at minimum, and physically on just a cursory glance for physical currently at US Walmart and Amazon is $25-$30, and is out of stock at Best Buy.
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You’re the ones ignoring details and shifting goal post. I’m being told the way that Final Fantasy can rise to being a dominate AAA franchise like Hogwarts, Monster Hunter, Elden Ring, Wukong, FFXV/FFX, God of War, etc. is by scaling back and releasing on Nintendo because of the Japanese market.
When literally none of those games being mentioned repeatedly in this thread relied on the Japanese Market or Nintendo Consoels to become major break out franchises, aside from Nintendo’s IP’s. So what are we talking about?
PC and specifically Steam has been the only major factor is growing software sales this generation. Outside of PC China will probably be the biggest boon for software sales in the future.
what does that mean?
point was: skipping a meaningful console for the Japanese market is per sé an issue for a JRPG
you replied with: but Monster Hunter!
and I replied: but Final Fantasy!
Final Fantasy already invested (like 20 years) into the graphical showcase going hard into the PS exclusivity deal; this decreased a lot its brand awereness among Nintendo and Japan
Monster Hunter did nothing similar
it's not that Japanese sales won't be part of the game's total lifetimes sales.
I disagree about the other user comparison with MH, exactly BECAUSE MH didn't suffer that much, as FF already has, in Japanese sales - but the point of FF losing meaningful potential sales in Japan is pretty evident
You were talking about "single player game(s) with a pre determined character and story line that you progress through in a very linear fashion" so Resident Evil fits the definition.
Let's face it: Final Fantasy popularity issue doesn't depend on its genre nor on its game structure.
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What's stopping Square Enix to evolve Final Fantasy in a direction which is more palatable for the general audience...?
Final Fantasy in the 90s and the 00s was setting the ceiling of the jRPG genres.
Maybe the other poster doesn't care to engage because its becoming quite clear the console warrior in you is speaking loud and clear. That is loud and clear when you state things such as "scaling back" to rise. Completely ignoring that Hogwarts and Monster Hunter had Switch versions. Asking Final Fantasy as a franchise to include a Nintendo platform in its pipeline makes sense because this is still a franchise with a ton of potential in Japan such as Monster Hunter. Monster Hunter didn't ignore Japan (Rise) like Final Fantasy is doing. Final Fantasy is the once major japanesw franchise collapsing, so asking it to change its business model to possibly encourage success isnt that hard to understand.
This conversation is always rampant with console warriors on both sides pushing an agenda. This isn't a Nintendo vs the World thing, most games would like to be available on as many platforms as possible but of course developers resources are limited. Nintendo platforms being leftout is a natural side effect but some franchises do seem to be more in need of a Nintendo platforms help than others. Final Fantasy seems to be a possible case here due to the lack of help from Japan.
Alright, I’m out. It’s clear where this conversation has been going for a while.
The drive to do something too different every game now. FF hit 10M with 15, then they pivoted away from that. It's looking like FF7R series can hit it (which also hits the same points that 15 had, curious
). I expect 17 to follow in the footsteps of 15 and 7R series, and maybe it'll hit 10M again.
I mean SE has specifically talked about a shortage of AAA dev recruiting domestically due to a mindshare issue in JP. Something PC isn’t necessarily going to fix for them if all their growth is outside of their domestic market. They can’t keep kicking this can down the road & hope for the best here. They are gonna have to find a way to be on the market leader either d1 or near enough to it. Late or nonexistent ports aren’t gonna cut it.
How would you alienate the "traditional JRPG fanbase" by giving them deeper character building options that were already in FF previously and that have been systematically removed over time? This is a group of players that were happily navigating multiclassing jobs, sphere grids, license boards etc until S-E simply stopped offering this kind of depth. Who in the JRPG audience would say "no thanks" in large numbers if reclassing and character building more generally was an important part of the game, like multiple other games in the series? Likewise, how have the "traditional JRPG fanbase" been served anyway, when their newest entry is a character action game with minimal "traditional JRPG" elements and zero party members?
WRPG vs JRPG audience is simply a false choice, FF is supposed to be a mainstream global brand that reaches both.
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Don’t have the time or energy but whatever it is. Yes. You are right & got it.
I still think we can look outside of the RPG genre to see that people resonate with pre determined stories with less focus on customization within games. Games like GoW and TLOU show that those aspect are appealing to gamers as a whole.
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Outside of the wall text defending XV honor, you cant compare Remake and FFXV sales, the last update for Remake it was September 2023, after that the game received several boosts in sales because of the Rebirth release on PS5 and PC, it should be easily over 8M by now, FFXV numbers It was six years later, so not aligned.
I feel like your argument its giving everything to look like FFXV does better that everything, even the best selling FF game that is FFVII
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Square definitely needs a big marketing campaign that's the size of XV and even more when they decide on what to do with their mainline series.
Drop the numbers. Be derpy if need be and call the new games New Final Fantasy. And have a remake line called Remake Final Fantasy Insert Number/Subtitle. It's not like they've never had more complicated names before.
Also, as much as I don't like them, some form of multiplayer elements will help.
folks need to remember how FF1 was straight up lifting western stuff like DnD and Ultima (if I remember correctly, the story was almost a copy of Ultima)
Yes, both DQ and FF share this origin inspired by localised software from the Western RPG boom, particularly Wizardry and Ultima. What happened during the formation of the JRPG as a subgenre wasn't "the Japanese audience didn't like RPGs until Horii and Sakaguchi removed/replaced <<feature>>", it was "RPGs were already successful in pre-Famicom Japan, and exploded in popularity when dedicated domestic studios started making their own for the Famicom."
Because JRPG audience has evolved to like the way JRPGs do the RPG genre compared to western RPGs, they like the anime aesthetics, the classic tropes and stories we see happen in JRPG games, the way you have a party with characters of different personalities, ages and races going on a journey together over the world etc. They don't seem to care much that you can't make a customized character with a blank personality that goes at it alone like say a Skyrim. Different subgenres of RPGs have different fanbases and as a whole JRPG fans and WRPG fans are seperate groups, make your game more like a JRPG and you lose out on WRPG fans and make it more like a WRPG and you lose out JRPG fans.
JRPG fans enjoy following a group of characters on a journey to save the world from an evil demon king or God, while that isn't something a Skyrim enjoyer would care much about.
I'd say more that "consumer gaming" exploded generally with Famicom and only then really started riving the arcade business. RPGs were already the top genre on PC-88 and other Pasocoms before that though where games like The Black Onyx or Dragon Slayer were already selling in the hundreds of thousands (and rivaling what CRPGs were selling overseas too in some cases) well before Dragon Quest broke the million barrier.
I never said anything about dumping parties in favour of a solo blank slate character (I said the opposite in fact, multi-character parties are a unique strength). I said they need to add the systemic depth back that they've removed/replaced over time. This was also true of WRPGs - Bioware has suffered heavily because they failed to react to sentiment that they were streamlining too many RPG elements away, then all of a sudden Larian takes a completely dormant (Bioware-developed!) series and experiences explosive popularity with an RPG that features everything the mass market supposedly didn't value anymore. We're in an environment where the Baldur's Gate 3 party members received the kind of mass attention that the FF cast used to, that's the kind of market position FF needs to occupy to justify its budget.
There is zero evidence that the JRPG audience domestically or internationally is hostile to those kinds of elements. The 2nd best selling DQ game features a player-designed party with full multiclassing, has 4-player co-op, and the developers directly cited Oblivion and Diablo as inspirations. What there is at least some evidence for is that the mass market does value games that are fairly heavy on stats/character building (common to MonHun, FromSoft titles, BG3, etc), especially if you marry those elements to content that extends past the ending of the linear story (Pokemon and Monster Hunter are both prime examples of this).
that's unreasonable, I think. especially given FF's origins. if SE ignored things like Baldur's Gate 3, that's a error on their part. they're looking to hit those kinds of numbers, so they need to see what it did right. they got to look at successes everywhere because they're selling their product everywhere
I think the problem is that they've already shown with FF16 (Which clearly focused on breaking out big in the west) that they don't really know how to attract western gamers the way Capcom have shown that they can. So Square Enix usually only end up lowering their sales in Japan and lowering their sales in the west as well at the same time.
XV seemed very western influenced I thought game design wise, even if not aesthetically. XVI was really the opposite, about as Japanese as game design gets while really trying hard to appeal to western sensibilities narratively and visually.
Design is more important imo.
Design is more important imo.
FFXV sold 8.4m 2 years after release, in fact just under 2 years since it was announced a few weeks before its 2nd anniversary, VII Remake was at 7m over 3 years after release. XV did do better than any other FF, including VII, which took multiple years longer to do what XV did in a fraction of the time, also while ignoring the plethora of extended FF7 media was getting in the the early 00's which only served as advertising for VII as a whole too, how is that worse than the desperate the "wow people only bought XV because of the free youtube anime and a movie they had to beg to see at cinemas that only got shown for 2 weeks in limited showing outside japan", or again, the played out "wow people waited 10 years!" conveniently ignoring versus was a spinoff title and not a mainline FF with mainline FF hype.
If you want to go time aligned then sure
FFXV day 1 did 5m, 4m of that was on PS4 alone, 6m in a month with 5m of that being PS4 alone.
FFVII Remake in 3 days did 3.5m on PS4 alone, took 4 months to hit 5m, which btw was on a 110 million PS4 install base, vs XV releasing to a 50 million PS4 install base, no need to even count the Xbox sales for XV to still be ahead of VII Remake time aligned.
XV sold more on PS4 alone than VII Remake did, and the next sales update VII Remake got was in 2023 when it was on 3 platforms and did 7m.
FFXV got updates again in August 2017 where it was 6.5m, then again in November 2016 where it was at 6.6m, then in February 2018 where it was at 7.1m, it then released on PC in March 2018, then had another sales update in August 2018 where it was at 7.7m, then again in September 2018 where it was now 8.1m, then again in November 2018 where it was 8.4m.
3 years after release XV was at 8.9m (as of October 2019, so really 2 years and 11 months) while on 3 platforms
3 years after release VII Remake was at 7m (as of September 2023, so 3 years and 5 months after release) while on 3 platforms
Also XV was at 10 million in May 2022 which was in 5.5 years from release, not 6 years, and was at 9.8 million in November 2021 on its 5th anniversary, still on 3 platforms and with no new content or limelight given to it since March 2019.
It's now been nearly 5 years since VII Remake released and yes it is likely around 7.5m to 8m now thanks to a boost in sales from bundled with another FF7 game, a luxury that XV was not afforded by the way yet XV is still outpacing the sales of VII remake, not to mention the re-release of FF7 Crisis Core with a complete visual remake to line it up with VII remake now, and 2 new VII mobile games that are canon tie ins to VII Remake too, in additional to all the marketing for Rebirth also all functioning as marketing for VII Remake too, and they even reshowed Advent Children in theaters around the world again specifically as advertising too.
There is really nothing (game design wise) western influenced in XV's design outside of an americana design sense/location design for some locations (which is no different than any other FF being inspired by medieval Europe or new york or whatever), where it's combat system is a functional mix of Kingdom Hearts and FF Type-0 with RPG mechanics that had been decade long hallmarks of the franchise by then and inseparable from what is colloquially known as "Japanese RPG", and its more open world structure was stated to be inspired by Zelda Ocarina of Time, while XVI was the most western action game design you could have possibly done with a visual style directly state to be Game of Throne's inspired and was stated to have been directly inspired by God of War 2018, and its practical lack of RPG mechanics even make it less of an RPG than GoW 2018 was ironically.
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I'm sorry but Clive May Cry takes almost nothing from modern GOW.
Except for the entire game structure of XVI being literally God of War 2018 and even PS2 God of War
Final Fantasy XVI Is A Lot Like God Of War, And Its Director Knows It
We talk with the producer, director, and combat director of Final Fantasy XVI about this radical departure from the classic RPG series.
www.gamespot.com
Individual combat actions being similar to DMC, specifically Nero, are divorced from the game structure itself and its intentional design.
There isn't a single western game ever made that is anything like XV, even its open world is unlike any other open world before it from any western games.
The game structure really isn't though, even though the devs said mission structure was functionally it isn't at all. It is understandable why they'd try to make that link over the Japanese character action games key staff worked on previously.Except for the entire game structure of XVI being literally God of War 2018 and even PS2 God of War
Final Fantasy XVI Is A Lot Like God Of War, And Its Director Knows It
We talk with the producer, director, and combat director of Final Fantasy XVI about this radical departure from the classic RPG series.
Individual combat actions being similar to DMC, specifically Nero, are divorced from the game structure itself and its intentional design.
There isn't a single western game ever made that is anything like XV, even its open world is unlike any other open world before it from any western games.
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This is so many words for something that is going to be wrong in the long run. There is basically no doubt at this point that 7 Remake will pass 15 eventually. It is a question of when and average revenue.
Remake has had great PC sales since we last got numbers, and you're overattributing its success to bundles and not it consistently doing well on the charts, and also using an extremely lowball number, which is a weird pattern for this game ( we skipped a 6M notice entirely so people were assuming way way way low beyond reason, ending up over 1M off on their estimates vs. reality.).
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Imagine thinking that making an anime series and a full movie its a cheap marketing, and remaking an old FFVII PSP game that would sell and pay itself anyway, its a full expensive marketing that they did to move FFVII Remake units
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Yeah, even in the most pessimistic/optimisitc scenarios for each, Reunion made a profit on its own and the 15 movie lost money on its own.
