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How can the Xenoblade series expand its sales potential?

Aleh

Aleh

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I decided to open a dedicated thread to talk about what everyone thinks is the best way for the Xenoblade series to continue growing with future installments, since it’s a topic that frequently comes up in other discussions thanks to the fact it’s a relatively prominent JRPG which welcomes comparisons to other established franchises.

So to start off:
Do you think its sales potential is already being met?
What elements should it keep, and which should it drop to maximize sales?
What should it absolutely keep to retain its identity?
What is the best release strategy for its games relative to the console lifecycle?
Could spin-offs help increase interest and mindshare for the overall series? If so, what kinds?
 
This is a good topic that has motivated me to give my opinion. The Xenoblade franchise can easily expand in the west, but it will take an animated series in order to do it. Nintendo has to be on board with that idea and very hands-on as well. One of the main reasons why legend of Zelda became so big here in the western world is because of the animated cartoon series from the 1980s. Having a very successful anime on television is a very huge deal. I’m not talking about an animated series that’s not successful like the F-Zero anime series but I’m talking about something like the Super Mario bros super show, the legend of Zelda and the Captain N the game master animated series. Xenoblade needs to expand into other media. Sure Xenoblade is a fantastic JRPG actually its my favorite JRPG franchise of all time. However outside of the gaming world, Xenoblade needs to be doing something because Zelda has already put its time in when it comes to animation thanks to the 1980s and I’m sure were going to get a legend of Zelda movie in the next few years which is going to push the Zelda series even further into the public consciousness. That’s the same thing that needs to happen with Xenoblade. If Xenoblade does that then it will eventually be able to sell multimillions amounts of copies and they could even reach 10 million sold within a future entry of the mainline games.
 
My two cents is that I think people are extremely passionate and antsy about a series that is already on the relative high end of its genre and run the risk of projecting personal preferences on to it.

Especially when we're talking about a series that went from <1m copies sold with its first two entries to >2m copies for the next two. It's already had a breakout and now it's all about maintaining that level and incremental outreach beyond that new base.
 
Now to answer your questions step-by-step.

Do you think its sales potential is already being met? No it’s sales potential is not being met just yet.
What elements should it keep, and which should it drop to maximize sales? They should keep all the elements that they have going for it right now.
What should it absolutely keep to retain its identity? It should keep everything, especially the Mecha Anime designs from Xenoblade X
What is the best release strategy for its games relative to the console lifecycle? There should be only one game release per console cycle and that should the main line game’s only.
Could spin-offs help increase interest and mindshare for the overall series? If so, what kinds. I don’t think they should do spin off just yet. They need to do exactly what Zelda is doing. Only focus on main line games. You don’t want to muddy the waters with spin offs while the franchise is still young. Even if the franchises not young, I would not want to do spinoff. They should just focus on what Zelda is doing in that regard.
 
Amin_Parker said:
Now to answer your questions step-by-step.

Do you think its sales potential is already being met? No it’s sales potential is not being met just yet.
What elements should it keep, and which should it drop to maximize sales? They should keep all the elements that they have going for it right now.
What should it absolutely keep to retain its identity? It should keep everything, especially the Mecha Anime designs from Xenoblade X
What is the best release strategy for its games relative to the console lifecycle? There should be only one game release per console cycle and that should the main line game’s only.
Could spin-offs help increase interest and mindshare for the overall series? If so, what kinds. I don’t think they should do spin off just yet. They need to do exactly what Zelda is doing. Only focus on main line games. You don’t want to muddy the waters with spin offs while the franchise is still young. Even if the franchises not young, I would not want to do spinoff. They should just focus on what Zelda is doing in that regard.
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Zelda is doing some spin offs though, such as the warrior games or that rhythm game I don’t remember the name of, and it has the advantage of having a 2D branch of mainline games it can also pull from instead of full spin-offs, so that’s something to consider if we’re drawing parallels with Zelda
 
I'll just quote and link to my comment in the other thread, and I'll direct discussion here.

www.installbaseforum.com

READ OP! - Which game will sell more in Japan: Final Fantasy 16 or Xenoblade Chronicles 3?

#W: XC3 -- FFXVI 9W: 41p --- 40p 8W: 46p --- 43p 7W: 49p --- 49p 6W: 50p --- 51p 5W: 54p — 58p 4W: 57p -- 67p 3W: 61p -- 73p 2W: 63p -- 84p 1W: 79p - 105p FD: 87p Fw: 140 Almost time, what were the final numbers for XC3?
www.installbaseforum.com www.installbaseforum.com

Vena said:
No I specifically said not XCX because that is a cult-classic title of the WiiU and I don't see much growth potential for it outside of a slightly larger core Xenoblade audience. I was talking on taking that formula and evolving/expanding it significantly to make something new under the Xenoblade IP. Think of it more like using XCX as a blueprint but nowhere near where the hypothetical end-product would end up.

I think the combat as a whole in Xenoblade needs to be overhauled and the general bloat these games tend to have is also problematic.
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To me the most natural path to catching the eyes of a larger audience is Monolith pushing the visuals of new generation hardware. If they have a Xenoblade game ready for the first few years of the next Switch and it looks really good it's going to naturally stand out.
 
Aleh said:
Zelda is doing some spin offs though, such as the warrior games or that rhythm game I don’t remember the name of, and it has the advantage of having a 2D branch of mainline games it can also pull from instead of full spin-offs, so that’s something to consider if we’re drawing parallels with Zelda
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That’s a very good point. yes, I forgot all about those warrior games. I do think a Xenoblade warriors game would work very well.
 
For me it was simple, building on the best selling entry. A rudimentary example would be what totk was to botw (I know its not as simple as that its just an example). Unfortunately I think they needed to do this with xenoblade 3 and that the ship has sailed. Now that the series will be soft rebooted (If I interpreted that klaus saga ending message correctly) and well they would need another big spike like xenoblade 2's greatness starting from a blank slate and I dont see that happening.
 
Charamiwa said:
To me the most natural path to catching the eyes of a larger audience is Monolith pushing the visuals of new generation hardware. If they have a Xenoblade game ready for the first few years of the next Switch and it looks really good it's going to naturally stand out.
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Yeah people are looking at Xenoblade 3 potentially not outselling Xenoblade 2 as a sign the series has plateued but if you look historically same system RPG series rarely sell as well as that first entry.

It was true for Final Fantasy, it was true for Tales, definitely true for stuff like Bravely and Octopath, and I think it was even probably true for Xenosaga?
 
Charamiwa said:
To me the most natural path to catching the eyes of a larger audience is Monolith pushing the visuals of new generation hardware. If they have a Xenoblade game ready for the first few years of the next Switch and it looks really good it's going to naturally stand out.
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Even though I believe a Xenoblade warriors game would work very well. I actually agree with with your post wholeheartedly more than anything else. Monolithsoft need to just focus on having a Xenoblade release one time per console cycle and those games need to look extremely good with lots of resources poured into these games. That way they can catch the public’s attention instantly.
 
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Here’s a long and rambling list of things I would do with the explicit intent of raising sales:

- ❗️ drop the numbered titles in favor of subtitles
- continue the overall lore of the series but without requiring playing previous games, think more XC2 approach than XC3 and especially Future redeemed
- ‼️ go open world like XCX where you also unlock free flying in the late game but keep a story focus as strong as the main trilogy
- ❗️ simplify a lot of the systems including the combat and streamline the UI
- specifically in terms of combat, I think the best course of action is going back to a maximum of 3 party members playable at a time, and it should have a stronger focus on individuality of playstyles and impact of single attacks, making them feel less like numbers
- have post-launch support on par with XC2, both in quantity and approach, since Torna felt more like an optional and standalone addition
- the artstyle in XC3 is pretty much perfectly balanced to appeal to most audiences and I would keep it basically entirely the same: anime is actually a good selling point, just look at the enormous success of Genshin Impact
- release the next game as a Switch 2 exclusive preferably during the second half of its second year, to leverage a higher install base compared to XC2, but to also benefit from tons of years on the market in front of it for legs
- ❗️ marketing push should heavily center around exploration and showing off the high end graphics they are most likely going to pull off on the new hardware

If literally all of these points ended up being met, my sales expectations for such a title would be very high compared to past results. Even north of 6m units, although I understand it’s pretty bullish. I also thought XC3 could have been a much bigger success, but hindsight is 20/20 and looking at it now I can see why it wasn’t. Especially considering the high number of mainline games + DLC expansions that released on Switch, which I think was a bit much considering their large similarities.
 
@Vena @Tokuiten
sorry I dont know how to quote from other threads LOL . Anyway I didnt mean it as "It makes no sense" rather as "It makes more sense to me that one would revisit and build upon the best selling title. The combat is unlike any other and I am not sure if making it generic action gameplay is a good approach, maybe it is. I also dont really know what you mean by bloat but if it is the freedom with classes/weapon/blades etc and various other combat mechanics then I personally hope not lol but thats a more personal thing than anything else. Maybe you tweak it a bit like IRA did with its combat (i prefer it to all other xenoblades) A complete overhaul runs the risk of alienating core players especially when the franchise isnt that big to begin with so I dont quite agree with that.To give an example since cross was brought up, my hypothetical would have been a new bigger xenoblade 2 and with all the mecha and customization from cross. But this is just a fanboys dream example and nothing else.
 
This reminds me about something I’m conflicted on: having a customizable MC could attract players but it also doesn’t mesh well at all with the story focus I definitely think needs to be kept.
 
Aleh said:
This reminds me about something I’m conflicted on: having a customizable MC could attract players but it also doesn’t mesh well at all with the story focus I definitely think needs to be kept.
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Depends on the focus of the game:

- focus on exploration and lots of "sense of wonder"-stories? Then customizable protagonist would be nice.
- focus on an emotional, character-driven story? Give us a pre-defined protagonist.

If I got a wish, we'd get a party of pre-defined characters that all play significantly differently and you can freely choose which to control, giving you both freedom of choice in who you play, but also the possibility for an emotional story.
 
Lurker101 said:
@Vena @Tokuiten
sorry I dont know how to quote from other threads LOL . Anyway I didnt mean it as "It makes no sense" rather as "It makes more sense to me that one would revisit and build upon the best selling title. The combat is unlike any other and I am not sure if making it generic action gameplay is a good approach, maybe it is. I also dont really know what you mean by bloat but if it is the freedom with classes/weapon/blades etc and various other combat mechanics then I personally hope not lol but thats a more personal thing than anything else. Maybe you tweak it a bit like IRA did with its combat (i prefer it to all other xenoblades) A complete overhaul runs the risk of alienating core players especially when the franchise isnt that big to begin with so I dont quite agree with that.To give an example since cross was brought up, my hypothetical would have been a new bigger xenoblade 2 and with all the mecha and customization from cross. But this is just a fanboys dream example and nothing else.
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Just hit quote in the other thread and copy and paste the quoted message into another thread. That will make a quote in the other thread but the link will point back to the original thread.
 
I don't think they need to do anything major. There is just a lot of Xenoblade on Switch and late gen RPGs sequels tend to sell less than the first entry. If they keep releasing good games with interesting worlds and mechanics they should continue to see slow growth.

They could change the battle system but imo at that point they should just make a new IP.
 
If they like the level of sales they have I don't know that they need to do much more; there are people who very much like the games exactly as they are. I mean, Hell, my favorite is XCX, and that's the most systems-deep nonsense in the franchise. Hovering around 2-3 million is extremely respectable for an RPG franchise of this kind

But if they want to expand past that, I can only refer to specific anecdotal evidence I have:

I cannot get the people in my life to play a Xenoblade game. My partner, my brother, a few of my friends, etc. And they all respond with the same reasoning: the combat looks impenetrable and the UI is vastly overwhelming. My partner has less idea what's going on when I play Xenoblade than when I play Bayonetta 2, and that's really saying something

My first instinct is to say that they have to adhere to the most appealing parts of Xenoblade: characters, plot, music, questions about humanity and faith and self, a flair for the dramatic, British voice actors screaming real good. And whiel they do that, they need to also get to the heart of what makes the combat engaging (combination attacks) while completely overhauling how that combat looks, sounds, and feels, because in my experience it's a genuine hurdle even for RPG fans to get into the series
 
Aleh said:
I decided to open a dedicated thread to talk about what everyone thinks is the best way for the Xenoblade series to continue growing with future installments, since it’s a topic that frequently comes up in other discussions thanks to the fact it’s a relatively prominent JRPG which welcomes comparisons to other established franchises.

So to start off:
Do you think its sales potential is already being met?
What elements should it keep, and which should it drop to maximize sales?
What should it absolutely keep to retain its identity?
What is the best release strategy for its games relative to the console lifecycle?
Could spin-offs help increase interest and mindshare for the overall series? If so, what kinds?
Click to expand...
  • if you want to keep the gameplay, yes
  • world design, character design (in general, even though I despise the direction of XC2), plot progression
  • world design. Xenoblade has come to be defined by its sprawling vistas and open play spaces
  • whenever, really. it just needs to be able to bring the thunder when its announced
  • spinoffs always help. new ways to play, and smaller games to tide fans over.
    • Project Xenoblade Zone on mobile

as for the series so far, I still think the series isn't newcomer friendly. the systems on systems on systems is fine for a more experienced player, but you have to expand your base to grow it. the mmo hotbar style isn't the problem, it's just that there's a lot going on and it isn't doled out in the best way. almost all of the games, IMO, started to streamline themselves into a routine for every battle, with XC2 being the worse.

and then there is the sensory overload of combat

xc3-ouroboros-screen-1.png


shots like this are memed on a lot, but I do think there is a problem here, regarding sensory overload. XC3 does a better job to ease you into it at least, but I don't think it has any "first glance appeal"

some other things that are more opinionated
  • proper multiplayer and character creation like XCX could grow the series if done well.
  • XCX is good
  • bring XCX to switch
 
I completely forgot about multiplayer. That’s definitely an aspect that could really revolutionize sales, something in the style of Pokémon SV with co-op exploration and some equivalent of raids is definitely possible and would fit nicely.
 
2B

Yes, I'm joking.


Make it more simple like Genshi and Starrail maybe?
 
Only things I can think about is make another open world like Xenoblade X but on a more popular console and make combat simpler or slightly more engaging.
 
I wonder if doing a full MMO X2 could be feasible? Then Monolith could potentially keep two lines going, the solo linear narrative JRPG Xenoblade series and the openworld MMO Xenoblade X series. Maybe make the latter an actual realtime ARPG in combat to help differentiate?
 
fiendcode said:
I wonder if doing a full MMO X2 could be feasible? Then Monolith could potentially keep two lines going, the solo linear narrative JRPG Xenoblade series and the openworld MMO Xenoblade X series. Maybe make the latter an actual realtime ARPG in combat to help differentiate?
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Monolith needs to start up a whole new team for that. or buy a studio who specializes in that. Bandai Namco has a whole studio to make Blue Protocol for instance
 
I ask this question everytime but nobody seems to answer... but wasn't xenoblade 3 'character design' supposed to propel it into new heights according to experts? what happened?
 
ILikeFeet said:
Monolith needs to start up a whole new team for that. or buy a studio who specializes in that. Bandai Namco has a whole studio to make Blue Protocol for instance
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Monolith Online Soft is an expansion I could see tbh. Maybe we could get a multiplayer 3D Zelda out of them too.
 
1. I think the first and most important step they'd need to take is do away with the super-cel-shaded look and find a more balanced approach between realistic and stylized character design. Something along the lines of Capcom or Square Enix's games would work well. This is already the approach Xenoblade X was going for (although I understand that particular game's approach to character's faces wasn't to everyone's liking), and with more powerful hardware available to them, it should be easier to do.
  • I understand people enjoy the cel-shaded visuals as they are at present, but I think we also need to be cognizant of the fact that a more grounded approach to rendering style would draw more people to these games. Zelda and Genshin aren't very good examples to the contrary because BOTW/TOTK sell on gameplay elements that Xenoblade games will never have, while Genshin/Honkai are free-to-play games.
2. Make your open world more interactive and more visually interesting, and give the player interesting ways to traverse it. Make it apparent why said traversal options are interesting at a glance, whether it's mechs or something else. Again, Xenoblade X was incredibly good at both these.

3. Bring back multiplayer. It was an integral component to making X feel like a community, and the way they designed the multiplayer in that game was very intelligently done. It didn't feel intrusive or like the game relied on it, but you absolutely felt the difference if you chose to engage with it. Multiplayer tends to give games a longer tail, and having it in there is a big boon for RPGs.

4. Make the combat more visually interesting. This is more of a loosey-goosey point, because there's a lot of different ways you could do that, but at present the numbered trilogy's combat just feels kind of dull to look at. It's fun when you're actually playing the game, but that isn't apparent at all in trailers and deep dives. They need to find a way around this.

Lurker101 said:
I ask this question everytime but nobody seems to answer... but wasn't xenoblade 3 'character design' supposed to propel it into new heights according to experts? what happened?
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Third game in an already niche series releasing on the same platform in quick succession after the first two (and with story connections to both). Diminishing returns do kick in at some point, and that's what happened with Xenoblade 3. That said, its return to more grounded character designs is definitely the way forward for future games.
 
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Ishaan said:
Third game in an already niche series releasing on the same platform in quick succession after the first two (and with story connections to both). Diminishing returns do kick in at some point, and that's what happened with Xenoblade 3. That said, its return to more grounded character designs is definitely the way forward for future games.
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The way forward to keep diminishing? yeah I guess I can see that.
 
Lurker101 said:
hmm well journalists, localizers, historians, enthusiasts etc I guess they are internet dwellers not sure if random or not.
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I genuinely don't remember any of that so some links would be good.

as far as character design goes, it was good for whale bait, but with the long legs XC2 had, I don't think character design played a significant role in XC2's sales. now the story, I think, was the biggest draw. Takahashi wanted to make an unapologetically shonen-as-fuck story with enough cheese to make as Wisconsinite blush, and he delivered in spades
 
I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if Xenoblade 4 was a fresh start too without direct story or lore connections to the original trilogy. Make it the start of a new trilogy (like the DQ model).
 
Lurker101 said:
hmm well journalists, localizers, historians, enthusiasts etc I guess they are internet dwellers not sure if random or not.
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Nobody of note said XC3's character designs would make it sell more than XC2. People said that they prefer the designs and find them generally more appealing but there were no widespread claims that character art would propel 3 over 2.

The people that dislike XC2 character designs are just very loud. But that's an entirely seperate issue.
 
I don’t think the more tame designs in XC3 compared to 2 were really said to help with sales. It was more of a reception thing. And I haven’t found many people unhappy with them either, it struck a really good balance. The new Nia designs are both very popular among both XC2 fans and XC3 fans, just to name one example.
 
Gotdatmoney said:
The people that dislike XC2 character designs are just very loud. But that's an entirely seperate issue.
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you goddamned right I am

fiendcode said:
Haven't played yet, lol.
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Takahashi did say that Future Redeemed would set the course for the future and it definitely does. it might be a clean break, but it's very questionable what that means now

Aleh said:
I don’t think the more tame designs in XC3 compared to 2 were really said to help with sales. It was more of a reception thing. And I haven’t found many people unhappy with them either, it struck a really good balance. The new Nia designs are both very popular among both XC2 fans and XC3 fans, just to name one example.
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Mio's design is to kill for
 
1. Drop the Xenoblade name.

2. A combat system that needs less tutorialization while simultaneously being less UI intrusive. Doesn't have to be action combat, it just needs to be way more immediately understandable and digestable.

3. Experiment more with striking character design work and in turn artstyle choices. I think this is a big one - NieR:Automata and Persona 5 are in huge part hits precisely because of their eye-catching character designs. I really like the character design work in XC3, I think they just need to hit a nerve with more mainstream audiences to get the ball rolling. So experiment more with unique character designs (not even ruling out other artstyles), go a little out there while still retaining modern design-sensibilities as with XC3.

Everything else is ace. They clearly have the core to produce a hit. A bigger budget wouldn't hurt as well but that will only happen once they actually make a real breakout hit.
 
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Hmm I must be seeing things then . Because even in this very thread all I see is take everything xb3 did and then copy something that is trending to make it sell, or change everything from the best selling game to make it sell. Expert concepts like the 'right way' or 'modern sensibilities' dont register to a commoner like me *shrug*
 
Lurker101 said:
Hmm I must be seeing things then . Because even in this very thread all I see is take everything xb3 did and then copy something that is trending to make it sell, or change everything from the best selling game to make it sell. Expert concepts like the 'right way' or 'modern sensibilities' dont register to a commoner like me *shrug*
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quote posts then
 
Lurker101 said:
Hmm I must be seeing things then . Because even in this very thread all I see is take everything xb3 did and then copy something that is trending to make it sell, or change everything from the best selling game to make it sell. Expert concepts like the 'right way' or 'modern sensibilities' dont register to a commoner like me *shrug*
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The series is only 5 games and XC3 is the second best selling one. It is not like XC2 did so much better under identical circunstances that people would assume they need to discard the parts of 3 they felt were worth retaining lol.

We can tell you like XC2 a lot but you're just seeing what you want to see.

sanstea said:
1. Drop the Xenoblade name.

2. A combat system that needs less tutorialization while simultaneously being less UI intrusive. Doesn't have to be action combat, it just needs to be way more immediately understandable and digestable.

3. Experiment more with striking character design work and in turn artstyle choices. I think this is a big one - NieR:Automata and Persona 5 are in huge part hits precisely because of their eye-catching character designs. I really like the character design work in XC3, I think they just need to hit a nerve with more mainstream audiences to get the ball rolling. So experiment more with unique character designs (not even ruling out other artstyles), go a little out there while still retaining modern design-sensibilities as with XC3.

Everything else is ace. They clearly have the core to produce a hit. A bigger budget wouldn't hurt as well but that will only happen once they actually make a real breakout hit.
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You can't make the Xenoblade series bigger if you don't call it Xenoblade lol. That's non negotiable.
 
Lurker101 said:
not sure what that is going to achieve. Or maybe you didnt understand what I wrote? sorry for being esl I guess.
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I mean this sincerely and not as an attack, but you always sound combative when it comes to Xenoblade, I think people would understand your point better if you tried to be more direct but more relaxed at the same time.
 
Gotdatmoney said:
The series is only 5 games and XC3 is the second best selling one. It is not like XC2 did so much better under identical circunstances that people would assume they need to discard the parts of 3 they felt were worth retaining lol.

We can tell you like XC2 a lot but you're just seeing what you want to see.
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I believe it sold better but I wont argue, the numbers are there for all to see, to me its simple..build on what made it grow in the first place thats all.
Aleh said:
I mean this sincerely and not as an attack, but you always sound combative when it comes to Xenoblade, I think people would understand your point better if you tried to be more direct but more relaxed at the same time.
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Thanks for your suggestion.
 
Lurker101 said:
not sure what that is going to achieve. Or maybe you didnt understand what I wrote? sorry for being esl I guess.
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you're making claims about posters and aren't willing to specify who to prove your point. in fact it just further reinforces my point about no one credible was saying that character design direction change would increase sales. random internet persons aren't that
 
sanstea said:
Don't be obtuse. They could make all these changes I listed and still obviously call it XC4. Point is if they want to reach the biggest number of people, they shouldn't.
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If they made those changes and didn't call it Xenoblade then it would literally not be a Xenoblade game. That is literally not negotiable. You fail the most basic part of the question if you say start a new series to grow the current series.

Elden Ring could have been called Dark Souls 4. But it isn't. Elden Ring is a new IP. Would it have been as successful if they just called it Dark Souls 4? I dunno, maybe. But as it is it isn't part of that franchise.

The question wasn't, "how does Monolith make their next game sell more", the question was "how does Xenoblade sell more". Xenoblade can't sell more if it literally isn't Xenoblade.

Come on this is common sense.
 
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