Final Fantasy XVI ships 3m units worldwide (see staff post)

I had my doubts on the validity of this number, but seeing folks here seemingly relatively unfazed, I am now second-guessing those doubts.

Figured it would have crossed the 4m mark by now. Not much past it, but still!
What is there to doubt?

FFXVI only shipped + digitally sold 3 million at launch, shipment is to retailers, not to consumers.

Let's say XVI had 50% physical digital split, let's say it sold 1.20m digital, so the shipment to retailers was 1.80m, and from within that shipment to retailers 1.20m sold to consumers, so in total actually 2.4 million sold to consumers, leaving 600k of unsold shipment.
XVI never charted on the PSN digital chart top 10 so it did not sell anything significant digitally, it also fell off ever physical chart quite quickly too, however its price was always cheaper from retailers because of discounts than it was digitally, so the majority of its post launch sales would be from within the remaining unsold physical stock retailers had from launch from WITHIN the 3m launch figure, not figure going over the initial 3m number.
Steam has it at about 500k, so that is 500k digital sold, so while it looks on the surface only 500k more sold since the 3m launch number, in reality, the remaining unsold shipment would have been selling slowly over the last year and 9 months, and that can easily figure to 1m once you count the physical shipment being sold plus the Steam sales together.

It did not actually sell through 3 million at launch, when SE says "3m Sold", that means that the combined figure of retailers purchasing stock PLUS what it sold digitally from consumers.
Physical stock is only sold to consumers through retailers. And SE's actual PR specifically said "shipment plus digital sales", even though the image just says "3m sold", that was part of the PR to make XVI look like it did better than it did.

As far as the actual Yasuda post goes, he is posting about the most recent financial quarters for multiple japanese publishers in his post, and his mention of XVI is a "btw XVI has sold 3.5m according to SE president from the earnings pres".
The SE Q&A doesn't always have exact transcripts of what is said during the earnings calls, for example when multiple shareholders stated that Kiryu stated that XVI did not meet the high end of expectations, the actual report had PR revision done to it to negate that damaging news as much as possible.

Hell there isn't a single SE report that has any mention of how Balan Wonderworld sold or even them saying it underperformed, but you can be sure that stuff was mentioned during the earnings call in person but nobody felt the need to mention it, the PR for the Q&A leave out damaging or possibly negative news that could harm their stock prices. When XVI was stated to have not met the high end of expectations the stock price fell, SE tried to mitigate that by not having that line mentioned in the Q&A that was posted, and instead a revised "it was inline with expectations" which says nothing, because that just as easy mean they expected it to underperform and it did, but its a less negative sounding phase than what 3 different people corroborated to hearing at the earnings call.
 
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The figures makes sense, the fact that FF XVI dropped of hard on every sales chart in every single major market was pretty clear proof that the game had no legs at all. If it sold any decent amount after the first week that would have shown on physical and digital sales charts, which it never did.

I think there is no chance that Square Enix ever tries a ''Devil May Cry'' style gameplay for FF again given the sales trajectory of this experiment.
 
wonder if SE will try to fast track FF17. don't even think they can do that since we don't know if they have a spare team that can whip something up. shit's crazy
 
I had my doubts on the validity of this number, but seeing folks here seemingly relatively unfazed, I am now second-guessing those doubts.

Figured it would have crossed the 4m mark by now. Not much past it, but still!

FF16 is the main reason Square Enix broke the emergency glass and rolled out their New Medium-term Business Plan last spring. It may be over 3.5m to some extent, but it was a certified underperformance in any case.

EDIT I've re-read the business plan now that I had to link it and it's even worse than I remember. It starts listing the achievements of the previous business plan and they only listed "Divested three overseas studios and IPs" as a HD gaming segment achievement.
 
Would these figures be surprising?

Over 3.5m might mean anything between 3.5m and 4m (though likely closer to 3.5m), which seems reasonable considering that:
  • 3m at launch include unsold physical units;
  • chart presence of the game after launch was abysmal, both in physical charts and on digital stores;
  • Steam sales don't look particularly high given metrics like CCU;
  • legs were cut by the release of Rebirth;
  • word-of-mouth wasn't particularly strong.
 
Yoshi P has stated everything about XVI, including the decision to make it a platform exclusive, was his decision and something he has to consider during his proposal/pitch to the company for budget approval and the like.
considering how SE made comments about reigning in producers, things like this probably led to that
 
Yoshi P has stated everything about XVI, including the decision to make it a platform exclusive, was his decision and something he has to consider during his proposal/pitch to the company for budget approval and the like.

According to a VG247 editor on the other forum, Yoshi P's pitch included plans for some pretty wild stuff had 16 been a major success:

[...] for 16 the calculation made was the sacrifice of some core FF fans was worth it if they could attract the sort of people who bought, say, God of War 2018, or liked Game of Thrones, or whatever. Make no mistake, the designs were grand on 16 if it nailed on that audience - spin-off games, a handshake agreement with Sony Pictures for a GOT-style TV spin-off/adaptation, the works. It would've transformed Final Fantasy completely. But that audience didn't show up for 16 at all really, and like I say less of FF's 'traditional' audience bought it as well. The result is, yep, an FF that has struggled to cross 4m in two years. (I do believe these numbers aren't quite up-to-date though. I do believe it has at this stage crossed 4m.)
 
with FF being an anthology, I feel like an original show would have been a better idea. or, at least, start with an older FF. and something cheaper than a GoT-esque tv show
 
3.5m will be disaster... It would mean it even with PC it failed to sell much after initial shipment which included digital sold through.
 
According to a VG247 editor on the other forum, Yoshi P's pitch included plans for some pretty wild stuff had 16 been a major success:
Don't know why they even thought that would've worked when even the live action FFXIV TV show got cancelled, and that at least has an established audience. How out of touch is Yoshi-P?
 
According to a VG247 editor on the other forum, Yoshi P's pitch included plans for some pretty wild stuff had 16 been a major success:
Almost comical for such grand plans for a game that ultimately was a similar level of sales to Fire Emblem Three houses, only with a good chunk higher budget.
 
considering how SE made comments about reigning in producers, things like this probably led to that
Most definitely, which is kind of a gamble, since that's how FF games have always been developed. CS1 is cooking with Remake>Rebirth though.
 
Less than 4 million in 2 years is a disappointment, no two ways about it. Gotta wonder what their plan is for 17.
 
I'm seeing folks bring up Baldur's Gate 3 for all the wrong reasons (turn-based), but there is a lot they can take from it. Mainly player agency while still having a strong cast of party members

I still would love to see a Final Fantasy combat system that takes from tabletop rpgs. That would even allow them to tap onto the tabletop market. FF is built for it with the races and jobs
 
It’s very disappointing. It’s a great game, but they weren’t able to penetrate the wider market with it.

Square Enix really has to put a lot of thought into how FFXVII will go. I wonder if they’ll start to de-emphasize the number and have a subtitle instead. Similar to what Resident Evil is doing now for new games.

I also hope they continue to update and use FF7R’s combat for newer mainline games. They have something unique there and they should lean into it.
 
Somehow I don't think this is that surprising? Ever since SE announced they were basically revamping their whole development structure I've believed the real numbers must have been closer to the more pessimistic predictions. I mean, I feel like you wouldn't do something like that unless you were feeling the heat, you know?
 
Yoshi P has stated everything about XVI, including the decision to make it a platform exclusive, was his decision and something he has to consider during his proposal/pitch to the company for budget approval and the like.
Thanks for clarifying, that's absolutely wild! No surprise the incoming CEO immediately dismantled a system that simply allowed producers to push for this kind of financial hubris.
According to a VG247 editor on the other forum, Yoshi P's pitch included plans for some pretty wild stuff had 16 been a major success:
Them trying to attract the GOW 2018 audience by turning FF into a character action game completely misunderstands that GOW 2018's changes didn't abandon the core appeal of GOW. Same as how Resident Evil's multiple revisions to its formula are made with the understanding that they're still delivering the fundamentals of RE.
 
Thanks for clarifying, that's absolutely wild! No surprise the incoming CEO immediately dismantled a system that simply allowed producers to push for this kind of financial hubris.

No worries at all, I looked it up since I replied.



Interestingly, he also said he wishes there was just one game platform. Forgot about that banger. https://en.as.com/meristation/news/...re-i-wish-there-was-only-one-game-platform-n/

But yeah, ultimately I'm sure whatever Sony offered him/SE in exchange for timed exclusivity was to help offset the cost of development and/or marketing assistance, not to mention Sony got a pseudo exclusive for their console war. Think the new CEO realizes that's not a winning strategy for his company anymore, thankfully.
 
This is such a catastrophic number that I can’t help but feel like we’re maybe missing something, XIII had much better legs than this and is considered the black sheep of the franchise with a very poor PC port.

If it’s real then….oof.
FF13 was released over 15 years ago and had a lot more going for it at the time. It was the first HD Final Fantasy and the brand was a lot stronger coming off the PS2.
 
Not sure how a game could be at 3m in its first week, and then only be at 3.5m over a year later with a PC release.
Extreme overshipment upfront, terrible legs, terrible handling of the PC launch.

No worries at all, I looked it up since I replied.



Interestingly, he also said he wishes there was just one game platform. Forgot about that banger. https://en.as.com/meristation/news/...re-i-wish-there-was-only-one-game-platform-n/

But yeah, ultimately I'm sure whatever Sony offered him/SE in exchange for timed exclusivity was to help offset the cost of development and/or marketing assistance, not to mention Sony got a pseudo exclusive for their console war. Think the new CEO realizes that's not a winning strategy for his company anymore, thankfully.

It's bizarre because less competition would be directly detrimental to developers and consumers. Really, such a backwards thing to say.

In retrospect maybe this also helps shed more light on FFXIV's long confusing contradictory road to console multiplatform?
 
Not sure how a game could be at 3m in its first week, and then only be at 3.5m over a year later with a PC release.
Overshipment. But it also shows that modern FF have a loyal fanbase that buys FF games, but very few if anyone outside that fanbase no longer buys FF games. JRPG games usually have very bad legs, given that they appeal to a set subset of gamers which buys that genre of games, but has next to no appeal to gamers outside that subset. XVI is just an extreme version of those JRPG style legs.

FF XVI basically failed totally, Square Enix aimed for XVI to reach Sony audiences that buys games like God of War and Horizon, but in the end basically no one in that audience bought FF XVI, and instead it was just the core FF fanbase that showed up for the most part.
 
This is such a catastrophic number that I can’t help but feel like we’re maybe missing something, XIII had much better legs than this and is considered the black sheep of the franchise with a very poor PC port.

If it’s real then….oof.
Word of mouth on this game has not been good and I think a lot of people dismissed it as “online chatter,” even though the diehard FF fans are the primary audience for these games nowadays.

Almost every gaming community I’ve seen on forums, Discord, etc. has been mixed-to-negative on the game.
 
Word of mouth on this game has not been good and I think a lot of people dismissed it as “online chatter,” even though the diehard FF fans are the primary audience for these games nowadays.

Almost every gaming community I’ve seen on forums, Discord, etc. has been mixed-to-negative on the game.


I think there’s alot of factors. From the art style, the tone, and the overall game design.

The combat would be appealing to hardcore action players but they’ll probably be bored outside of combat and the people more interested in the story probably wont be big on a purely action based combat system with no party and barely any RPG mechanics to speak of.

I also wrote extensively about how jarring the artstyle and tone to a fan base who’s really only been playing Nomura style games for 15 years.

They just created a fundamentally unappealing product that was further hamstrung by a baffling exclusivity deal.
 
Yeah, the game didnt appeal to the JRPG audience that much, and didnt bring new people enough.

I feel the demo helped to bring new audience used to Sony games(Saw several), but it was not enough and word of mouth have been pretty middling.

They making the game so focused on Clive its so stupid too, you lose the party dynamic and that JRPGS sell
 
Thanks for clarifying, that's absolutely wild! No surprise the incoming CEO immediately dismantled a system that simply allowed producers to push for this kind of financial hubris.
I would expect the target platform(s) to be listed in any game pitch. No one forced whatever committee/internal review board Square has to agree to Yoshida's supposed proposal of exclusivity.
 
for a DMC-styled game, it's surprising they didn't lean into that by making other characters playable as a post-story bonus

but the idea of DMC-lite for 60 hours doesn't sound fun
 
I think there’s alot of factors. From the art style, the tone, and the overall game design.

The combat would be appealing to hardcore action players but they’ll probably be bored outside of combat and the people more interested in the story probably wont be big on a purely action based combat system with no party and barely any RPG mechanics to speak of.

I also wrote extensively about how jarring the artstyle and tone to a fan base who’s really only been playing Nomura style games for 15 years.

They just created a fundamentally unappealing product that was further hamstrung by a baffling exclusivity deal.
The combat is only appealing to action game fans on a surface level. A key element of good character action games is having access to most of your kit at all times, not having it locked behind MMO cooldowns like in FF16.
 
The combat is only appealing to action game fans on a surface level. A key element of good character action games is having access to most of your kit at all times, not having it locked behind MMO cooldowns like in FF16.

I platinumed the game and I’ve seen a bunch of combo videos where I can’t even tell what’s happening because the games skill ceiling is so high. I don’t think that’s the issue, it’s that they don’t care about exploring big open areas or the cutscenes and side quests between combat encounters and they get bored. There’s a reason why DMC is linear.
 
I platinumed the game and I’ve seen a bunch of combo videos where I can’t even tell what’s happening because the games skill ceiling is so high. I don’t think that’s the issue, it’s that they don’t care about exploring big open areas or the cutscenes and side quests between combat encounters and they get bored. There’s a reason why DMC is linear.
In XVI there is only 1 actual combo though, everything else is cooldowns or an action separate from Clive's base combo.
Also, high skill ceiling? There's no elemental or weapon attributes, magic is all jus a reskinned projectile that deals attack damage, so not even really magic in the RPG sense, and none of the enemies do anything like status ailments or whatever, its combat is extremely barebones and enemy HP are bloated so you just spend 30 seconds doing the same thing over and over instead of being done with the enemy in a handful of attacks. There is no actual skill required to do anything, chaining cooldowns are just rote MMO rotations, its combat encounters feel like they were designed by an MMO team, I wonder why that is.
Suzuki's action combat experience only shows itself on Clive's very basic actions which are an already more simplistic version of Nero, who was already the most panned part of DMC4 when that released, and same for DMC5 in comparison to Dante's combat. FF16 can look flashy, but its all just flat attack damage with nothing else going on under the hood.
 
Uufff.... 3.5m all this time. The bet to move on to DMC like battle system seems to have totally backfire and put FF into the same more niche audience of high octane battle system game.

At this point, SE will need to take a long long thought on how to grow FF franchise as the falldown of sales since 15 or even 7 Remake has been very brutal.

It is very telling that a FE3H from even smaller Srpg genre is outselling FF is big red warning sign for FF Ip health.(Not to mention how many mobile effort with FF name has totally failed.)
 
What is the longest running numbered videogame series?
You mean the series with the most numbers? Or the series that is numbered that has been on the market longest?

The last is almost certainly Wizardry followed by DQ. The first, if the numbers can be hidden is probably Atelier?( Yumia is 26) I can’t think of a number higher than that. If the numbers have to be visible, it’s probably Final Fantasy.
 
I know a lot of people like to refute the position this game is in whether it's "we don't have the most up to date numbers" or "square's expectations are always too high" but I feel like a lot of that discussion just ignores the convenient timing of both XVI and Rebirth's performance to lead Square Enix to wholesale restructure how it develops for consoles now. This number in 2 years for a major budgeted Final Fantasy game is not good results.

Uufff.... 3.5m all this time. The bet to move on to DMC like battle system seems to have totally backfire and put FF into the same more niche audience of high octane battle system game.

At this point, SE will need to take a long long thought on how to grow FF franchise as the falldown of sales since 15 or even 7 Remake has been very brutal.

It is very telling that a FE3H from even smaller Srpg genre is outselling FF is big red warning sign for FF Ip health.(Not to mention how many mobile effort with FF name has totally failed.)
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I highly doubt this number; just above 3.5 is abysmal. Even after the DLC launch, The multiple discounts, TGA nominations, and PC releases, it sold just 500k after all that. That is absolutely ridiculous, maybe their sales team needs to bring it to PS Plus or do steeper discounts cause that is a sad number.
 
I highly doubt this number; just above 3.5 is abysmal. Even after the DLC launch, The multiple discounts, TGA nominations, and PC releases, it sold just 500k after all that. That is absolutely ridiculous, maybe their sales team needs to bring it to PS Plus or do steeper discounts cause that is a sad number.

If the game shipped 3m first week it might have actually sold around 2.5m first week, leaving 1m+ after that, which is totally reasonable.
 
At this point I am scared for the series. I saw the update a while ago and didn't give it much thought cause it just seemed absurd that the game hadn't sold over 4M by now.
 
If the game shipped 3m first week it might have actually sold around 2.5m first week, leaving 1m+ after that, which is totally reasonable.
Yeah I know it's a possibility but I expected at least 4M shipped by now. It's Final Fantasy. except Rebirth crippled its sales as soon as it came out.

And people shouldn't even question SE about expectations again with this level of sales
 
In XVI there is only 1 actual combo though, everything else is cooldowns or an action separate from Clive's base combo.
Also, high skill ceiling? There's no elemental or weapon attributes, magic is all jus a reskinned projectile that deals attack damage, so not even really magic in the RPG sense, and none of the enemies do anything like status ailments or whatever, its combat is extremely barebones and enemy HP are bloated so you just spend 30 seconds doing the same thing over and over instead of being done with the enemy in a handful of attacks. There is no actual skill required to do anything, chaining cooldowns are just rote MMO rotations, its combat encounters feel like they were designed by an MMO team, I wonder why that is.
Suzuki's action combat experience only shows itself on Clive's very basic actions which are an already more simplistic version of Nero, who was already the most panned part of DMC4 when that released, and same for DMC5 in comparison to Dante's combat. FF16 can look flashy, but its all just flat attack damage with nothing else going on under the hood.
Mostly right but kinda harsh in many parts. There is more than one combo. There are status ailments that enemies (not a lot though) inflict like poison, lowered attack, bind, or blind. Clive can also inflict burning freeze etc. They are adapted to real-time combat. Now the cool-down stuff is annoying but you can pull off some amazing combinations.

The combat was not fantastic but it was fun enough for me to fight all the optional bosses. plus the boss battle music is legit, Personally feel the side quest was the biggest issue, also they seemed to run out of budget after a certain point and the spectacle and grandeur of boss battles dropped. Also, the story and characters were a not top quality
 
Doesn’t change much but If you read the Japanese games analyst’s report in Japanese, he states it as something he has heard but it is not his own information. Something like: “I have heard FF16 has exceeded 3.5 million copies at this point” either way I would still expect something within that 4M range.
 
Doesn’t change much but If you read the Japanese games analyst’s report in Japanese, he states it as something he has heard but it is not his own information. Something like: “I have heard FF16 has exceeded 3.5 million copies at this point” either way I would still expect something within that 4M range.
I don’t think that was in contention. Yasuda is attributing it to SE’s president’s remarks at the briefing. It was heard then and isn’t something yasuda is tracking like say NPD.
 
I don’t think that was in contention. Yasuda is attributing it to SE’s president’s remarks at the briefing. It was heard then and isn’t something yasuda is tracking like say NPD.
Thats just how it reads from the source I mean we should wait for official numbers as always but yeah not entirely doubting it.
 
Uufff.... 3.5m all this time. The bet to move on to DMC like battle system seems to have totally backfire and put FF into the same more niche audience of high octane battle system game.

At this point, SE will need to take a long long thought on how to grow FF franchise as the falldown of sales since 15 or even 7 Remake has been very brutal.

It is very telling that a FE3H from even smaller Srpg genre is outselling FF is big red warning sign for FF Ip health.(Not to mention how many mobile effort with FF name has totally failed.)
I can't believe that we live in a timeline where Fire Emblem: Three Houses outsold Final Fantasy 16. The former is at 4.12m as of Dec 2022 for reference:


That's WILD.
 
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