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Final Fantasy VII Rebirth sales didn't disappoint but the series can't be exclusive to a single console anymore - Square Enix
- Thread starter Phantom Thief
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Overview Discussion (237)
For real. Arcade games used to get ported to the ZX Spectrum.
The gap between and PS5 and a Switch in insanely smaller than a CPS1 board and a speccy
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I think they could cut down FF7R and FF7R2 to respectable sizes if they compressed all that audio! Probably wouldn't even need to be noticeable to the average listener!
But I think on some level we may be getting ahead of ourselves. It's reasonable to assume that Square will want to put Final Fantasy on the Switch 2 in some form, but we don't actually know that this will encompass the Final Fantasy 7 Remake project
But I think on some level we may be getting ahead of ourselves. It's reasonable to assume that Square will want to put Final Fantasy on the Switch 2 in some form, but we don't actually know that this will encompass the Final Fantasy 7 Remake project
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They will probably jyst sell Remake for $40 and Rebirth for $60. But if they don't launch on the same day then they will have time to determine the correct pricing. The size of the games themselves doesn't matter. They will be able to cut them down to fit on a cartridge.
Remake with all the DLC is about 90 Gigs. With the right cuts they can get it on a 64 GB cart. One of the easy ones is making the additional languages separate downloads.
Rebirth will be a bigger challenge but there are again things they can do. But also, we don't even know what cart costs will look like for Nintendo and partners. They obviously will have addressed the size to cost issue with the new platform to some degree.
Remake with all the DLC is about 90 Gigs. With the right cuts they can get it on a 64 GB cart. One of the easy ones is making the additional languages separate downloads.
Rebirth will be a bigger challenge but there are again things they can do. But also, we don't even know what cart costs will look like for Nintendo and partners. They obviously will have addressed the size to cost issue with the new platform to some degree.
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The Asia versión of FFX/X2 has everything in the card tho.
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Square Enix is not the technical development team that simply pushes out quality low hardware ports. They rarely get the most out of hardware these days.
I’m almost positive Gene Park admitted that he was misquoted/misinterpreted what was actually said.
Why wouldn't we take them at their word that they want to get it running on Steam Deck?
Of all the things they say to not trust, this is an odd one. Lets just see what they do. That said, we'll know shortly how well Rebirth runs on PC and PC handhelds and that will give us a better idea.
What "technical development team"? Every team of engineers in Square-Enix? Just the team working on Rebirth? If they're as technically inept as you claim, why would they make a target for their own backs by publicly stating they want to scale down to Steam Deck?
In any case, Rebirth is a UE5 game and one of the few reliable pieces of reporting on Switch 2 states that it was running the UE5 Matrix demo behind closed doors over a year ago, which is a more demanding benchmark than Rebirth. If Remake/Rebirth aren't on Switch it won't be for technical reasons.
When Square Enix announced their future multiplatform push they stated:
Square Enix have already during the Switch era released many games on Switch, so that wouldn't be something new for them, so i take it that they are aiming to release their AAA games on Switch 2, which would be a change in strategy from what they have done in the past.
If SE cannot do it themselves then they can always farm it out to another studio who is more competent than them in making quality low hardware ports. There are options only stopped by SE themselves.
Rebirth is UE4 btw.
Part III is going to be UE4 as well. I mean, obviously I don’t have any inside info on that, but you have to figure getting this game out ASAP is priority number 1. Even upgrading from UE4 to UE5 would cost, what, half a year minimum? And I feel like I’m lowballing that number.
If they're talking about getting the game out ASAP, then that tells me they aren't switching engines mid-trilogy.
My take is I don’t think making the third game multi platform will solve things. I believe the games itself is the problem. Lots of players bought remake on PS4. Yes install base difference. But they got many players from PS Plus as well.
I would usually expect a surge from a sequel like this. Or are people worried about the pacing. Cause I was and didn’t like the filler content of remake and worried rebirth would be packed with it.
I would usually expect a surge from a sequel like this. Or are people worried about the pacing. Cause I was and didn’t like the filler content of remake and worried rebirth would be packed with it.
Maybe, maybe not. They have had quite a few folk 'cut their teeth' on smaller development. If I am to get a bit personal about it, I prefer those games... I feel that Square Enix needs to make more of those.
And to be fair I don't feel that it's just them either. I question the thinking that's been going around the industry of always needing a publisher to always put out AAA content.
Again, if I am allowed to be personal, I think the franchise needs a sabbatical. Final Fantasy has been on a 3/5-year cadence (roughly), and as much as that is a lot of time it also isn't. Given the state of the franchise itself right now, I don't think that the next game in the series is something they should rush into.
I agree with you that Nintendo is not a platform to be ignored at this point, especially if they want some traction in Japan.
You might have something with that. I have been saying for a while that it really depends on how Square Enix goes about multiplatform development... it is not and has never been a cure-all.
making the trilogy multiplatform isn't gonna solve the problem with the trilogy, but I think it's a necessary step in solving the problem for the IP. it's the same reason you see studios doing a bunch of ports of their old games on switch prior to new games coming out. gotta start building the foundation even if the house doesn't exist yet and isn't livable
They should definitely take a step back and do what Nintendo did in the transition from Skyward Sword to Breath of the Wild. Go back to basics, figure out the elements that put the franchise on the map in the first place (before the boost it got from the move to 3D and CDs), and recontextualize that in a modern context.
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So people are thinking Rebirth sold around 3 million? That seems right to me. Maybe it can crawl to 5 million lifetime with sales and bundles, which is... well, not great, to put it mildly.
I genuinely am fascinated to see the sales for part 3, there just seems to be almost no enthusiasm going forward.
I genuinely am fascinated to see the sales for part 3, there just seems to be almost no enthusiasm going forward.
I totally agree that Part III won't benefit THAT MUCH from a multiplatform approach: in order for it to see something on the positive side, it will be crucial how they will eventually manage Part I and Part II release on other platform and how timely will Part III release will be
in any case, it's more a matter of rebuild, at least partially, some sort of brand awereness and interest in FF mainline episodes also elsewhere (PC primarily imho for ww audience, Switch 2 for Japan) in order to get traction also outside the PS ecosystem
Yeah, but I don't think that it would take a generation to solve. The thing with Zelda is that the dev team was already thinking in the direction of BotW, in the abstract. To add to this, Zelda, like most Nintendo series, is honed in to the basics from the start.... one of the constant complains to any Nintendo franchise is how formulaic they can be...
Final Fantasy had that at the start then lost it... the irony being that they changed platforms at the same time.
The issue that Final Fantasy, as a franchise, has to answer is this: What are the central tenants of a Final Fantasy game?
Since 7.... I could not tell you, the game is that pivotal in changing the franchise direction but something in that transition was lost. Every game since has done something difference, but has never replaced or reclaimed that. The closest I can think of is 9 and that is a VERY deliberate throw back, tho even then.... something was missing in that.
It says a lot that several other games, some of which SE has produced, seem to capture some of those central tenants (I am looking at you, Bravely Default series) that Final Fantasy use to have.
It's why I am suggesting sabbatical, I am not convinced that Final Fantasy can just push on and find it. I think that it will likely come from outside of the franchise than from within, and so... Final Fantasy needs more time.
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right now, FF needs people to get engaged with the IP in order to build new audiences. time to go mixed media, if you ask me. where are the comics, the netflix series, the cartoon, etc?
I'm playing FF2 through the pixel collection and one thing that stands out immediately is the keyword system. it reminds me of when FF was still heavily inspired by western rpgs. they should bring that back and expand on it. I've been saying that the one thing players are really into these days is player expression, and being able to bring up key words for different effects (like bringing up the rebel's pass code to the enemy) would go an interesting way for Final Fantasy
The difference between Zelda and FF is that Nintendo had other series that could match or do more than Zelda in the meantime. Meanwhile, FF is the biggest Square Ip.
Second, Zelda still received remasters, 2D games and spin-offs. Keeping the IP in the mind of people.Which, outside of old remasters, Square isn't doing.
We shall see how Square is handles the IP. There's ways they can keep and grow mindshare in Playstation and other platforms.
Edit: Square has been doing this to a degree, but has been fairly inconsistent with platforms.
Pixel Remasters release on PC first, then PS4 and Switch, later Xbox.
Strangers of Paradise skipped Switch, but release on everything else.
The only one that was day and date with everything else was Crisis Core.
They need consistency to grow the series
Second, Zelda still received remasters, 2D games and spin-offs. Keeping the IP in the mind of people.Which, outside of old remasters, Square isn't doing.
We shall see how Square is handles the IP. There's ways they can keep and grow mindshare in Playstation and other platforms.
Edit: Square has been doing this to a degree, but has been fairly inconsistent with platforms.
Pixel Remasters release on PC first, then PS4 and Switch, later Xbox.
Strangers of Paradise skipped Switch, but release on everything else.
The only one that was day and date with everything else was Crisis Core.
They need consistency to grow the series
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I would say that the core formula of FF was pretty well defined up to and including X.
The issues started when S-E got the idea that the brand was so strong that the mainline games could be whatever the producers wanted to make, and that people would keep buying the games just because it's FF. This started with XI and was in full swing by the XIII project.
Yes, but... Look at The Super Mario Movie.... a very deliberate advertisement for the franchise that did juice it's sales for several months. Compare that to the Last Of Us, that entered the streaming zeitgeist for a few months and then drifting out of it, juicing sales for that time and then dipping back to normal.
The thing is that Square Enix can do all those things, and if the content is "mid", it will not have an effect over all. Last Of Us wasn't bad at all, yet it drifted out of the zeitgeist pretty fast and the sales went with it. The Super Mario Movie didn't have that issue, it's effect last till the launch of Wonder.
You're not wrong in saying that Final Fantasy has to step out of the gaming bubble, and engage potential users with media... how they do it and how much the effect with last? That is a big question.
This is something that Square Enix has imposed on themselves, making Final Fantasy it's biggest focus when it comes to IP.
Nintendo is not nearly as dependent on Zelda, let alone Mario (outright it's second biggest IP). It has Metroid, it has Star Fox, it has Fire Emblem (which is likely it's third), it has Pokemon (it's first)... and if neither of those do, the company has retained enough creative talent to outright make it's own. Splatoon, Animal Crossing, Pikmin and ARMS is evidence of that. It's the kind of diversification that is almost unheard of in the industry, and not easy to do, but pay dividends if you do it right.
True, that is something that they could afford to do more of.
That, I am not so sure of.
Which is the thing that started due to Final Fantasy 7 success, which has been a messy affair ever since.
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it's not always about pumping up game sales. Mario Movie definitely doesn't exist for that purpose, IMO. it's about keeping the IP fresh in people's minds. Last of Us and others like it have an issue with there only being one story and that's hinged on the game. there's no avenue to spread out unless Naughty Dog/Sony greenlights an expanded universe. Final Fantasy is much like Mario here: they're not beholden to any one story. they can do adaptations, or they can do original stories. that gives them the ability to have multiple projects of varying scopes that don't step on anyone's toes. it gives them the ability to grow the IP without being reliant on the video games continuing the story
I never said that it was solely about that, but it has enough of effect that it is noted in financial briefings. Especially on Nintendo's end.
Yeah and no, you are right that it is about putting the IP up front to people that have never considered a Nintendo product. I don't think that Nintendo walked into that initially with the intention of juicing sales, it's just a really happy side effect of an enjoyable movie with a prolific set of characters.
That said, the next project, presumed to be Zelda-based, will likely have an expectation to do the same.... maybe not as much but have some effect on game sales but I will also point out that effect is meaningless if the movie is bad. So what ever the Zelda movie is, it has to stand on it own. It has to be a "good movie" first and foremost.
Yeah, Final Fantasy is one of the first to do that. Remember "Spirits Within". Remember how that did not go well. In the aftermath.... the Founder left, the production company was sold to Sony Pictures (which continues to exist to this day) and they amassed a ton of debt that crippled the company and that hastened the merger with Enix.
I doubt that Square Enix wants a revisit of that history, so they can't simply toss something up against the wall to see what sticks.
That said, the elements are their to do something enjoyable as you noted... but, there has to be enough connective tissue to the games that when folks leave the theater, they consider a walk/drive to a game store or retail website searching for 'Final Fantasy'. If you want to know "Spirits Within" biggest failure, it is that. Folks left the theater and never wanted to consider Final Fantasy again.
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This I think is a defensible position: Mario Kart is a subseries of Mario (though it is easily the biggest subseries, constituting a plurality of Mario's video game footprint for the past decade)
This might be harder to justify: as it's not internally produced, Smash Bros doesn't count for this weighting in the same way that Pokemon doesn't. But! If it did, I agree that it would push Splatoon out of the Four Devas
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just go with "Smash is nothing without the individual IPs that make up its cast"
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Speaking of subseries, I think that's one of the problems that Final Fantasy has—S-E's investment in it is limited by their parallel investment in Final Fantasy 7, which is a parallel, less successful, but competing franchise
How did this happen? I'm not exactly sure! But Final Fantasy 7 has been its own series since Advent Children or Crisis Core or Dirge of Cerberus, and their insistence on treating it as its own series has divided the attention that the producers and that their players can focus on mainline FF
Final Fantasy right now consists of three series: Final Fantasy VII Compendium, Final Fantasy XIV, and Final Fantasy. When people think of Final Fantasy, they may be thinking of any of these three according to different points in time! My thought is that if S-E really wants to solidify what Final Fantasy is, they have to reduce how many parallel series they have running simultaneously, because they only have so many labour hours to spread around and only so many eyeballs that will turn toward their games
This isn't to say that every FFXIV player is someone who would otherwise be playing FFXVI, or whatever! That's obviously, reflexively untrue. There are FFXIV players who would never touch FF outside of the MMO, and there are FFXIV players who play mainline Final Fantasy! What I'm saying is that Final Fantasy's identity is pulled along three different axes right now, and even settling on an identity for the mainline games won't solve the problem of the general public's lack of engagement or understanding of the series
My hot take: since they are definitely going to finish the Remake project, they should do that and then just leave FF7 behind. That well is dry; there is no blood left in the stone. They can dispense with that smothering element of their legacy and re-focus on what makes Final Fantasy generally appealing, while letting FFXIV continue to keep them afloat during these unsure years
The FF7 Remake project represents three games that could have been mainline Final Fantasies!
How did this happen? I'm not exactly sure! But Final Fantasy 7 has been its own series since Advent Children or Crisis Core or Dirge of Cerberus, and their insistence on treating it as its own series has divided the attention that the producers and that their players can focus on mainline FF
Final Fantasy right now consists of three series: Final Fantasy VII Compendium, Final Fantasy XIV, and Final Fantasy. When people think of Final Fantasy, they may be thinking of any of these three according to different points in time! My thought is that if S-E really wants to solidify what Final Fantasy is, they have to reduce how many parallel series they have running simultaneously, because they only have so many labour hours to spread around and only so many eyeballs that will turn toward their games
This isn't to say that every FFXIV player is someone who would otherwise be playing FFXVI, or whatever! That's obviously, reflexively untrue. There are FFXIV players who would never touch FF outside of the MMO, and there are FFXIV players who play mainline Final Fantasy! What I'm saying is that Final Fantasy's identity is pulled along three different axes right now, and even settling on an identity for the mainline games won't solve the problem of the general public's lack of engagement or understanding of the series
My hot take: since they are definitely going to finish the Remake project, they should do that and then just leave FF7 behind. That well is dry; there is no blood left in the stone. They can dispense with that smothering element of their legacy and re-focus on what makes Final Fantasy generally appealing, while letting FFXIV continue to keep them afloat during these unsure years
The FF7 Remake project represents three games that could have been mainline Final Fantasies!
Remake was moved in house in 2017, XVI started development in 2016, I’m very confident we will get all 3 FF7 games at least 2-3 years faster than XVII.
That wouldn’t be possible as a mainline game where they change the cast and setting, even if they reused the same combat, so it’s definitely not a situation where we could have gotten XVII, XVIII, and XIX.
That wouldn’t be possible as a mainline game where they change the cast and setting, even if they reused the same combat, so it’s definitely not a situation where we could have gotten XVII, XVIII, and XIX.
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OK that's true, yeah
There's a lot of design that goes into mainline FFs that the Remake project doesn't necessarily incur
But! That's still a lot of design work and man-hours that could have been put toward other projects, including mainline FFs. I'm similarly confident that we would have gotten XVI and the eventual XVII faster (or just other games!) if those resources hadn't been put toward the remake project
There's only one solution.
Lightning Returns Again: Final Fantasy XIII-4
She Must Not Be Forgotten
Yes, 7 was definitely an inflection point for the company for good and bad. The pivot to prerendered CG (whether backgrounds or cutscenes) was obviously hugely impressive at the time but it aged like milk by PS3, yet even at that point they were still clinging to prerendered cutscenes as a big draw (for example, they were still doing the bizarre anti-marketing practice of private theatre showings of CG trailers, that would have to be described in writing in the press afterwards to 99% of the audience, who would never see it). I think the 1-2 punch of:
-the series wrapping a good amount of its identity around prerendered CG cutscenes
-the series losing lots of other fundamental elements of its identity except the prerendered CG cutscenes
has basically left FF as being defined in large part by something the modern market no longer places much value in, or that they can routinely get from any number of other games (often in real-time, often with production value and direction that at least matches FF or is close enough).
I never understand how they can afford mega flops like Forspoken, Babylon fall and to an extend, Vision of mana, but couldn't find a way to put an original high effort FF on the Switch, which is an easy guaranteed million seller in Japan. I was thinking the same thing about DQ, but at least we just got 3 remake(which is alright I guess, but still not an original game
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They can afford AA flops like Babylons fall and Visions, they definitely cannot do that with games like Forspoken, that was a historic disaster for the company.
They are very fortunate to have some games like XIV that can bail them out.
They are very fortunate to have some games like XIV that can bail them out.
While they can afford it, those AA flops have factored into their strategy change going forward.
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I believe that something like a Final Fantasy "Rise" would need a team on Square pitching the idea of a Final Fantasy being made mainly for the Switch and its good and bad aspects.
The problem its that most people that could something like that were busy with FFXVI ,FFXIV and Remake, its not the same situation for MH teams.
Theres something like the FF Origin game that Team Ninja pitched, but that never was something being made thinking in the Switch at first, it was a Soulslike/Nioh action FF game that was made to be exactly what the Nioh series its for, but with a FF aesthetic.
The problem its that most people that could something like that were busy with FFXVI ,FFXIV and Remake, its not the same situation for MH teams.
Theres something like the FF Origin game that Team Ninja pitched, but that never was something being made thinking in the Switch at first, it was a Soulslike/Nioh action FF game that was made to be exactly what the Nioh series its for, but with a FF aesthetic.
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On a side note that is just utterly pretentious, which were the mood of the company at the time.
I'll be honest, you have a point but... I think the latter point is a lot more poignant than the first. The first was simply a new element that they could put into the production, the latter is... fundamental to game making.
Oh please, no. We do not need another game of 13.
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They haven't touched it in a decade now, have they? My guess is they're waiting to do a proper remaster or just want to forget about it.
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Since this isn't a Switch 2 hardware thread, it is worth bearing in mind that there is no guarantee that Switch 2 will use the exact same manufacturing method for its Game Cards as Switch does, which opens up opportunities that weren't there 9-10 years ago.
And I'll bang this drum until someone actually does something about this, but the first console to provide a hardware accelerator for decoding lossless audio tracks with little to no CPU hit is going to be able to save BIG on package sizes for modern games, as (poorly-compressed) audio files are becoming one of the largest data hogs in terms of game assets (what with the pre-recorded orchestral soundtracks and the mountains of spoken dialogue in modern games).
Big Switch cards and Drake cards will be the same, some form of (3D) nand. The file decompression engine just decompresses lz4 format, which is already supported on the Switch, just decompressed on the cpu. The compression ratios will be the same, just faster decompression, and larger game card sizes (due to renegotiating contracts)
They basically remastered it for free on Xbox One/Series but other than that yeah, very surprised they haven’t done anything with them considering how frequently they port, remaster, and remake the mainline games. It’s not even playable PS4/5
Isn't the 360 improved bc actually a Microsoft initiative?
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