Atlus output strategy | Discussion thread

So..?
This is true for everyone
I was talking about the chance for thise with a save file to skip directly to the moment the paths start to split
Why do I need to spend 2h for the very same experience, already played?
If they are going to offer something to those who already have SMTV that would be an incentive
Oh, i get it.

But i believe if you want a new experience, just choose the Vengeance path
 
Seems like Atlus is pushing Vengeance hard for other platforms. They released two PlayStation-exclusive presentations for the game:



Outside of the Nintendo Direct trailer, I don't think Atlus made any attempts to promote the game on Switch? I searched the Nintendo channels, but nothing else turns up. I wonder if Atlus will give it one last marketing push with next week(?)'s Direct or if they intend to skip it to market the game for other platforms. Xbox Showcase instead for the west if they're focusing on PlayStation for Japan?
 
Seems like Atlus is pushing Vengeance hard for other platforms. They released two PlayStation-exclusive presentations for the game:



Outside of the Nintendo Direct trailer, I don't think Atlus made any attempts to promote the game on Switch? I searched the Nintendo channels, but nothing else turns up. I wonder if Atlus will give it one last marketing push with next week(?)'s Direct or if they intend to skip it to market the game for other platforms. Xbox Showcase instead for the west if they're focusing on PlayStation for Japan?

Outside of the first unveiling for the game, there have been other trailers for the game posted by the Nintendo of America YouTube channel







(not sure why they have two different videos with the same name, but oh well)


Also, this is probably a good opportunity to highlight that the Japanese Nintendo YouTube channel very rarely posts videos and trailers for third party titles, outside of videos that get featured in presentations such as Nintendo Directs and Indie Worlds or older games that are part of NSO drops. Therefore, it's not that surprising that there hasn't been anything else over there outside of the original announcement trailer. The most recent exception they made was actually for a Western-developed title, Hogwarts Legacy. Still, personally speaking, I would definitely appreciate if NCL started to be much more open about hosting trailers for third-party games outside of the aforementioned occasions on their YouTube channel and if they became more in line with the overseas branches of the company (and with the Japanese PlayStation YouTube channel, since you brought up the two SMTV:V videos posted under the Play!Play!Play! initiative).
 

IGN Live to Feature Metaphor: ReFantazio on June 8, 2024

So with that Metaphor will be at SGF, after SGF and now IGN Live. There is a good chance its on the xbox show but that would be so many trailers over the weekend.
 
Seems like Atlus is pushing Vengeance hard for other platforms. They released two PlayStation-exclusive presentations for the game:
Spoiler: The videos

Outside of the Nintendo Direct trailer, I don't think Atlus made any attempts to promote the game on Switch? I searched the Nintendo channels, but nothing else turns up. I wonder if Atlus will give it one last marketing push with next week(?)'s Direct or if they intend to skip it to market the game for other platforms. Xbox Showcase instead for the west if they're focusing on PlayStation for Japan?

The sales potential on Switch should be low because people bought the original version, how many of them will double dip?
 
The sales potential on Switch should be low because people bought the original version, how many of them will double dip?
The sales potential on PlayStation is lower WW. There’s going to be very few countries where SMTVV sells more on PS than Switch.

I have my doubts as to how well the game will do as SMT V performed very strongly in PAL and did extremely well in Japan and also NA. Shame as it looks much better than SMTV OG
 
Outside of the first unveiling for the game, there have been other trailers for the game posted by the Nintendo of America YouTube channel







(not sure why they have two different videos with the same name, but oh well)


Also, this is probably a good opportunity to highlight that the Japanese Nintendo YouTube channel very rarely posts videos and trailers for third party titles, outside of videos that get featured in presentations such as Nintendo Directs and Indie Worlds or older games that are part of NSO drops. Therefore, it's not that surprising that there hasn't been anything else over there outside of the original announcement trailer. The most recent exception they made was actually for a Western-developed title, Hogwarts Legacy. Still, personally speaking, I would definitely appreciate if NCL started to be much more open about hosting trailers for third-party games outside of the aforementioned occasions on their YouTube channel and if they became more in line with the overseas branches of the company (and with the Japanese PlayStation YouTube channel, since you brought up the two SMTV:V videos posted under the Play!Play!Play! initiative).

Oh, I knew about those trailers, but I thought two of the were same video because they had the same name. Was wondering why Atlus didn't do much to promote it for Switch, but I guess NCL not doing those type of promotional is the reason. Even for SMTV, I can only find Atlus' own promotional stream. So Nintendo's part of the problem too. I've seen Atlus' own promotional videos for Vengeance, but it seems like they're all using PlayStation as the base. So it does seem like they see this release as more PlayStation-oriented because of its performance-related enhancements. I don't like it (EDIT: because it's the only Switch game they have currently and would've been great if they promoted it more), but it is what it is. PS5 is the stronger hardware after all.
 
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The sales potential on Switch should be low because people bought the original version, how many of them will double dip?
Looking at Amazon US preorders:

February 2024
SMTV Vengeance (NSW) 1000+
SMTV Vengeance (PS5) 900+
SMTV Vengeance (XB) 200+

March 2024
SMTV Vengeance (PS5) 3000+
SMTV Vengeance (NSW) 1000+
SMTV Vengeance (XB) 200+

April 2024
SMTV Vengeance Steelbook (PS5) 1000+
SMTV Vengeance Steelbook (NSW) 800+
SMTV Vengeance Steelbook (XB) 100+

May 2024
SMTV Vengeance Steelbook (NSW) 1000+
SMTV Vengeance Steelbook (PS5) 1000+
SMTV Vengeance Steelbook (XB) 100+
SMTV Vengeance (PS5) 50+


Switch is holding up well. This is also with the current SMTV doing 200+ each month too (except Feb, where it did 500+).
 
Looking at Amazon US preorders:

February 2024
SMTV Vengeance (NSW) 1000+
SMTV Vengeance (PS5) 900+
SMTV Vengeance (XB) 200+

March 2024
SMTV Vengeance (PS5) 3000+
SMTV Vengeance (NSW) 1000+
SMTV Vengeance (XB) 200+

April 2024
SMTV Vengeance Steelbook (PS5) 1000+
SMTV Vengeance Steelbook (NSW) 800+
SMTV Vengeance Steelbook (XB) 100+

May 2024
SMTV Vengeance Steelbook (NSW) 1000+
SMTV Vengeance Steelbook (PS5) 1000+
SMTV Vengeance Steelbook (XB) 100+
SMTV Vengeance (PS5) 50+


Switch is holding up well. This is also with the current SMTV doing 200+ each month too (except Feb, where it did 500+).
A huge difference compared to COMG! pre-orders. It shows how different the platform preferences are for the two countries.
 
Looking at Amazon US preorders:

February 2024
SMTV Vengeance (NSW) 1000+
SMTV Vengeance (PS5) 900+
SMTV Vengeance (XB) 200+

March 2024
SMTV Vengeance (PS5) 3000+
SMTV Vengeance (NSW) 1000+
SMTV Vengeance (XB) 200+

April 2024
SMTV Vengeance Steelbook (PS5) 1000+
SMTV Vengeance Steelbook (NSW) 800+
SMTV Vengeance Steelbook (XB) 100+

May 2024
SMTV Vengeance Steelbook (NSW) 1000+
SMTV Vengeance Steelbook (PS5) 1000+
SMTV Vengeance Steelbook (XB) 100+
SMTV Vengeance (PS5) 50+


Switch is holding up well. This is also with the current SMTV doing 200+ each month too (except Feb, where it did 500+).

Hmm big bump for PS5 in March. My memories is failing me. Was there some kind of stream or promotion done in March to boost the numbers that month. Or was pre-order period for February really short.
 
It makes more sense for Atlus to think that the game can sell better on Playstation on PC, thats why they are focusing the market there, its a new game for this audience.
 
Rankings on Amazon in the West and steam (revenue chart) for it are quite low. Only place it’s showing any life is Amazon Japan. Atlus’s marketing hasn’t done the trick it seems.
This may just be how SMT performs on steam. I know we don't exactly have a great number of data points to work with, but neither nocturne nor SH2 exactly lit the charts on fire, although the latter can at least partially be chalked up to "bad game"
 
I'm sure Switch version will pick up once reviews are out, since that audience is waiting to see if the new content is worth it.
 
It makes more sense for Atlus to think that the game can sell better on Playstation on PC, thats why they are focusing the market there, its a new game for this audience.
Don't know about that, even if it's a new game for this audience, it doesn't necessarily mean it'll sell better. For example, Nocturne was a new game for the Nintendo audience (since it was originally PlayStation exclusive), but they didn't focus more on the Nintendo audience for their marketing.

Atlus could think that way for Vengeance, but pre-orders tell a different story.
 
Don't know about that, even if it's a new game for this audience, it doesn't necessarily mean it'll sell better. For example, Nocturne was a new game for the Nintendo audience (since it was originally PlayStation exclusive), but they didn't focus more on the Nintendo audience for their marketing.

Atlus could think that way for Vengeance, but pre-orders tell a different story.
It looks like the PS5/PC version is doing better in the western markets, so i think they did the right decision
 
As someone who got burned getting vanilla SMTV (albeit at a low price) I am not in a hurry to buy this at full price.
 
SMTVV will likely underperform primarily because Atlus are reusing a strategy from when they were a small, boutique studio, rereleasing the same game with the expansion content instead of releasing as DLC, to maximise revenue from a small group of committed fans who will pay full price a 2nd time. The potential for this is limited in the modern market because full-price singleplayer videogames have a narrower window of novelty and market relevance due to the volume of releases competing for attention these days. A late port of a game that already spent the bulk of it's marketing budget years ago on Switch 1, released at full price, with obtuse messaging about what exactly justifies this as a new release rather than DLC, is not a good combination of factors. The long tail of sales will most likely be good unless reviews are an absolute mess, though.

Atlus need to address this mindset, which made sense when they were a small, primarily domestic focused studio, but which is irrelevant as a Sega subsidiary aiming for the international mass market. Mass market customers will not accept this practice, and a number of their most committed fans are going to feel burned, given that they have already paid full price on a version of the game with performance issues, that has now been completely superseded by the next version of the game.
 
SMTVV will likely underperform primarily because Atlus are reusing a strategy from when they were a small, boutique studio, rereleasing the same game with the expansion content instead of releasing as DLC, to maximise revenue from a small group of committed fans who will pay full price a 2nd time. The potential for this is limited in the modern market because full-price singleplayer videogames have a narrower window of novelty and market relevance due to the volume of releases competing for attention these days. A late port of a game that already spent the bulk of it's marketing budget years ago on Switch 1, released at full price, with obtuse messaging about what exactly justifies this as a new release rather than DLC, is not a good combination of factors. The long tail of sales will most likely be good unless reviews are an absolute mess, though.

Atlus need to address this mindset, which made sense when they were a small, primarily domestic focused studio, but which is irrelevant as a Sega subsidiary aiming for the international mass market. Mass market customers will not accept this practice, and a number of their most committed fans are going to feel burned, given that they have already paid full price on a version of the game with performance issues, that has now been completely superseded by the next version of the game.
Honestly, I think this is it as far as rereleases go - I think the only reason this thing isn't even dlc to begin with is because it was originally exclusive.

P3R is probably where they're headed. Sega is apparently doing a season pass for Sonic x Shadow too, it's company wide.
 
Honestly, I think this is it as far as rereleases go - I think the only reason this thing isn't even dlc to begin with is because it was originally exclusive.

P3R is probably where they're headed. Sega is apparently doing a season pass for Sonic x Shadow too, it's company wide.
Yeah, judging by the rest of their output I think you're right. The difference in approach between Metaphor's marketing and SMTVV's is massive - SMTVV would have seriously benefitted from marketing along the lines of Metaphor's, which straightforwardly explains the premise, gameplay loop etc. In contrast SMTVV marketing gets lost in the sauce of cryptic plot hints and repeatedly showing new content at the expense of explaining the basics to a new audience, because the basic premise is "old content".

I will say it's positive that the lessons of Nintendo Directs are actually finally filtering through to the likes of Sega/Atlus judging by the Atlus Exclusive stuff for Metaphor.
 
I wonder if, even with a week difference between release dates, the Elden Ring DLC isn't stealing the spotlight from SMT VV.

The previews were fantastic. The DLC has a huge amount of content, it's almost a new game.

I'll play SMTVV (on PS5) first tho


Edit: Of course, the Elden Ring DLC won't have an impact on people who only play on Switch.
 
Can you provide a link for these markets where that version is performing better?
It's certainly higher on amazon, at least as of right now.
I wonder if, even with a week difference between release dates, the Elden Ring DLC isn't stealing the spotlight from SMT VV.

The previews were fantastic. The DLC has a huge amount of content, it's almost a new game.

I'll play SMTVV (on PS5) first tho


Edit: Of course, the Elden Ring DLC won't have an impact on people who only play on Switch.
Elden Ring is big enough that there might be some overlap, but SMT has a very specific fanbase anyways. I honestly think a more pressing concern might be metaphor -they should move up metaphor into late September and maybe bring aigis up into late August or something, there is an actual overlap between Dragon Ball and Metaphor/Persona that might not be apparent to some at first glance. (Very few games should want to launch right on top of something like Sparking Zero regardless, idk about Japan but that will perform monstrously internationally)
 
One interesting observation of the trailer breakdown was that Yuji Himukai (Etrian odyssey designer) is involved with the archetype design, imo they did him dirty on that job, plus the game has ost and costume from the EO franchise.

Not saying EO6 (7 if you count Nexus) is coming soon, but this is the most rep EO has received in an atlus game since the TMS switch version.
 
Yeah, I noticed the EO content, which was a nice change from the usual round of SMT3/5, Persona 3/4/5 and even SH2 stuff we've been getting. Hopefully that bodes well for "SQ Next" being around the corner though I know at least Yuzo is pushing for more Origins remasters too (do both!).
 
I see. That's interesting. I wonder what the breakdown is in these western market charts. I believe the UK market skews more towards Switch but I'm not 100% sure.
Opposite. The UK market tends to lean heavily toward PS.

Besides Atlus more on the ground marketing favoring the new systems, it seems just poor right now in general. Probably because most of summer games fest they have spent their energy on Metaphor. Reviews might be able to instill some life but so far it’s not really catching any eyes.
 
Opposite. The UK market tends to lean heavily toward PS.

Besides Atlus more on the ground marketing favoring the new systems, it seems just poor right now in general. Probably because most of summer games fest they have spent their energy on Metaphor. Reviews might be able to instill some life but so far it’s not really catching any eyes.

Well they have another festival to market it at next week!


Despite the name this is a rock festival lol
 
lol just saw the first text based ad on Twitter that advertised the Switch ver. I think it has similar text to the one I saw on Reddit except it drops mention of the other platforms and only mentions Switch. I'm trying to get it to pop again again but no luck
 
Opposite. The UK market tends to lean heavily toward PS.

I see, thank you.

Besides Atlus more on the ground marketing favoring the new systems, it seems just poor right now in general. Probably because most of summer games fest they have spent their energy on Metaphor. Reviews might be able to instill some life but so far it’s not really catching any eyes.

We'll see what happens after the reviews. It'll be interesting to see if things change after the reviews, assuming that it's mostly positive critically.
 
I personally feel Vengeance problem now is going to be worse sales due to lowered interest rather than just missing Switch focused marketing.

Like in Indonesia. SMTV Vengeance on Switch sold around 70+ copies for PO based on 3 biggest game seller on Green Online store. While PS5 version is around 28 copies. Thats big drop from Vanilla V which a single store can sell 100+ copies for Switch there.

Feels like PS version does not compensate the drop of interest by Vengeance on Switch audience.
 
I personally feel Vengeance problem now is going to be worse sales due to lowered interest rather than just missing Switch focused marketing.

Like in Indonesia. SMTV Vengeance on Switch sold around 70+ copies for PO based on 3 biggest game seller on Green Online store. While PS5 version is around 28 copies. Thats big drop from Vanilla V which a single store can sell 100+ copies for Switch there.

Feels like PS version does not compensate the drop of interest by Vengeance on Switch audience.
There's also Steam in Indonesia.
Granted, I have no clue how popular it is there, and it's likely going to more or less perform middling there anyways overall.
 
lol just saw the first text based ad on Twitter that advertised the Switch ver. I think it has similar text to the one I saw on Reddit except it drops mention of the other platforms and only mentions Switch. I'm trying to get it to pop again again but no luck
Probably got caught as a mistake immediately by Atlus, so they took it down to add back the other platforms. Now it would be great if they're this attentive with that Reddit ad too.
I see. That's interesting. I wonder what the breakdown is in these western market charts. I believe the UK market skews more towards Switch but I'm not 100% sure.
At least France will skew towards the Switch more.
I personally feel Vengeance problem now is going to be worse sales due to lowered interest rather than just missing Switch focused marketing.

Like in Indonesia. SMTV Vengeance on Switch sold around 70+ copies for PO based on 3 biggest game seller on Green Online store. While PS5 version is around 28 copies. Thats big drop from Vanilla V which a single store can sell 100+ copies for Switch there.

Feels like PS version does not compensate the drop of interest by Vengeance on Switch audience.
I think the two variables are heavily correlated. Lack of Switch-focused marketing is due to a decision to focus on Vengeance's multiplatform ports. Ironically, this means it comes across as "late port marketing" for the audience, and late ports generally have lower interest and/or sales ceiling. Focusing on PlayStation also alienates the original audience. It makes the original audience feel like beta-testers while the real completed game is targeted toward other audiences instead. Kind of like people complaining when Switch becomes the focus of games with definitive/enhanced editions over the original platforms.

Funnily enough, I bet if they removed the original SMTV from Vengeance and only included the new route, the audience would be more receptive of it. They could've marketed it more like an Apocalypse release than an enhanced release. Them sticking the original SMTV in to make things "fair" for other platform owners actually held back the game more than anything.
 
There's also Steam in Indonesia.
Granted, I have no clue how popular it is there, and it's likely going to more or less perform middling there anyways overall.

Jrpg audience is far bigger on console in Indonesia than Steam. Especially if the IP is not even popular on PC before. So it will have uphill battle there.(Also don't forget the pricing on Steam at full price is going to hurt the sales potential here in Indonesia even more as PC is very sales driven.)

Probably got caught as a mistake immediately by Atlus, so they took it down to add back the other platforms. Now it would be great if they're this attentive with that Reddit ad too.

At least France will skew towards the Switch more.

I think the two variables are heavily correlated. Lack of Switch-focused marketing is due to a decision to focus on Vengeance's multiplatform ports. Ironically, this means it comes across as "late port marketing" for the audience, and late ports generally have lower interest and/or sales ceiling. Focusing on PlayStation also alienates the original audience. It makes the original audience feel like beta-testers while the real completed game is targeted toward other audiences instead. Kind of like people complaining when Switch becomes the focus of games with definitive/enhanced editions over the original platforms.

Funnily enough, I bet if they removed the original SMTV from Vengeance and only included the new route, the audience would be more receptive of it. They could've marketed it more like an Apocalypse release than an enhanced release. Them sticking the original SMTV in to make things "fair" for other platform owners actually held back the game more than anything.

I.... actually think u take is quite correct there. The fact that Vengeance having Vanilla V inside in a way sour the Vanilla buyers as they sees their product as simply useless/inferior products now.

That in a way hurt the potential of those vanilla buyers to buy Vengeance at full price as they feel the game is only worth half the content for them. So in the end, it lead to lost of interest or many of Vanilla V buyers to wait for potential 50% price cut before returning to Vengeance.
 
It just occurred to me that after SMTVV this week, ATLUS has no Switch games announced and there is a Nintendo Direct this month.

Considering that ATLUS has shown that any new release is out of the question, I'm curious what low budget spin off / port will they announce. Unless they announce nothing and we return to 2017-2019 of course.
 
It just occurred to me that after SMTVV this week, ATLUS has no Switch games announced and there is a Nintendo Direct this month.

Considering that ATLUS has shown that any new release is out of the question, I'm curious what low budget spin off / port will they announce. Unless they announce nothing and we return to 2017-2019 of course.
Is anyone really expecting anything much from anybody? This direct is basically the calm before the storm, and everybody knows it. I guess they could in theory pump out a PQ/PQ2 or DDS remaster or something, that wouldn't take much effort, relatively speaking. (Etrian Odyssey 6 is copium)
 
Is anyone really expecting anything much from anybody? This direct is basically the calm before the storm, and everybody knows it. I guess they could in theory pump out a PQ/PQ2 or DDS remaster or something, that wouldn't take much effort, relatively speaking. (Etrian Odyssey 6 is copium)

For the past 7 years people have been telling me that ATLUS was slow to support Switch because they keep supporting old systems for years after the successor releases, so I expect the same people to believe Switch will be supported for years to come.
 
For the past 7 years people have been telling me that ATLUS was slow to support Switch because they keep supporting old systems for years after the successor releases, so I expect the same people to believe Switch will be supported for years to come.

Lol. Switch will be lucky if it even get any new game after this lol. Atlus has move on from ninty. And this is just the coming future.
 
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For the past 7 years people have been telling me that ATLUS was slow to support Switch because they keep supporting old systems for years after the successor releases, so I expect the same people to believe Switch will be supported for years to come.
Atlus takes forever to move on from old platforms…until Switch came then they moved full speed ahead on modern platforms. Probably one of the worst time for them to change their strategy. I doubt they have anything more to show for Switch. This isn’t the old Atlus anymore.
 
For the past 7 years people have been telling me that ATLUS was slow to support Switch because they keep supporting old systems for years after the successor releases, so I expect the same people to believe Switch will be supported for years to come.
Well whoever these "people" are, they're mistaken. Their late-era Switch support has been lower than e.g. 3DS for numerous reasons that have been obvious for a while:

1) development costs are higher on Switch than they were on 3DS, so releasing e.g. smaller games to a saturated market will not achieve the same level of margin. I'm not even sure if this strategy ever really even worked for them beyond selling to the same group of Atlus fans domestically to keep the lights on - either way it wouldn't work now that their target market has broadened
2) Atlus' usual arbitrariness when it comes to platform support - this affected all non-Sony platforms until Sega have more or less imposed a multiplatform strategy upon them, but that happened mid-generation which is obviously not ideal for Switch
3) Atlus splitting their output across multiple engines including off-the-shelf tools, which simply aren't very performant on Switch (so e.g. SMTV runs poorly on Switch via UnrealEngine, later titles like P3R (UE again) and Soul Hackers 2 (Unity) aren't present at all)
4) Atlus achieving breakout success with Persona 5, and then reorienting a good amount of their output around that rather than other small titles (so e.g. something like Persona 5 Tactica will absorb development resources that would in the past have easily supported a smaller 3DS title or 2, because expected production value for even a P5 spinoff are higher than Atlus' historical output)

The writing has been on the wall since Midori pretty plainly laid out that Atlus/Sega are now orienting around Switch 2. At this point in the Switch's lifecycle, that's probably the best approach.
Atlus takes forever to move on from old platforms…until Switch came then they moved full speed ahead on modern platforms. Probably one of the worst time for them to change their strategy. I doubt they have anything more to show for Switch. This isn’t the old Atlus anymore.
"The old Atlus" release strategy was absolutely awful, and included arbitrarily locking their content to the Vita long past the point of relevance, and supporting the 3DS as its market presence completely evaporated (at the point where even Nintendo couldn't achieve satisfactory sales on it). I personally won't mourn that approach, but that's possibly because I got what I wanted (both handheld and 4K flavours of Etrian Odyssey!).

I think Atlus' (and Sega's) biggest hazard now has been the recent use of Unreal Engine/Unity (in e.g. Soul Hackers 2/P3R, RGG Ishin on the Sega side), which I hope isn't a permanent state of affairs - I understand the reasoning behind it (documentation and support is held in high regard, especially in Japanese, and it's both easier to hire people with relevant experience and easier to maintain since you're using an off-the-shelf solution) but there's too much evidence of these games either missing Switch or appearing on the platform with much poorer performance than their content would justify. Personally I think if you're a 3rd party publisher of a certain size, you should be maintaining your own multiplatform engine in 99% of cases, rather than paying royalties to use something that I think is more appropriate for hobbyists or prototyping.
 
I think Atlus' (and Sega's) biggest hazard now has been the recent use of Unreal Engine/Unity (in e.g. Soul Hackers 2/P3R, RGG Ishin on the Sega side), which I hope isn't a permanent state of affairs - I understand the reasoning behind it (documentation and support is held in high regard, especially in Japanese, and it's both easier to hire people with relevant experience and easier to maintain since you're using an off-the-shelf solution) but there's too much evidence of these games either missing Switch or appearing on the platform with much poorer performance than their content would justify. Personally I think if you're a 3rd party publisher of a certain size, you should be maintaining your own multiplatform engine in 99% of cases, rather than paying royalties to use something that I think is more appropriate for hobbyists or prototyping.
If it means anything, Metaphor looks to be an evolution of P5's engine, so they do have an internal engine still in active development to fall back on. Still, Unreal is both more advanced and is going to be easier to develop for at this point (especially given they still have manpower issues which they need to get sorted), and hopefully shouldn't be too much of an issue for switch 2 regardless.
 
If it means anything, Metaphor looks to be an evolution of P5's engine, so they do have an internal engine still in active development to fall back on. Still, Unreal is both more advanced and is going to be easier to develop for at this point (especially given they still have manpower issues which they need to get sorted), and hopefully shouldn't be too much of an issue for switch 2 regardless.
Yeah, Metaphor is carrying on their P5 engine - I'm hoping that's what P6 and their major titles continue to use. UE is more "advanced" but I've also found it to largely be a bunch of smoke and mirrors where the "advanced" features are little more than tech demo fodder, while in the real world the engine has had serious issues achieving the fundamentals (years of titles with shader stutter).
 
3) Atlus splitting their output across multiple engines including off-the-shelf tools, which simply aren't very performant on Switch (so e.g. SMTV runs poorly on Switch via UnrealEngine, later titles like P3R (UE again) and Soul Hackers 2 (Unity) aren't present at all)
This really doesn’t work at all. SMTV should have made it far easier for them to have Reload on switch. In fact when asked they didn’t say they couldn’t port it, they said they never considered it at all. SH2’s team latest experience was developing on Nintendo consoles. Reload and SH2 also are less demanding then P5R (steam min reqs) and yet that game runs fine on Switch. These games run on potatos. Finally on this point SMTV ran fine on switch and is still Atlus’s best looking title this gen.
4) Atlus achieving breakout success with Persona 5, and then reorienting a good amount of their output around that rather than other small titles (so e.g. something like Persona 5 Tactica will absorb development resources that would in the past have easily supported a smaller 3DS title or 2, because expected production value for even a P5 spinoff are higher than Atlus' historical output)
This doesn’t actually address the issue when all three new (not spin off) games they developed this gen that after the game paid for by Nintendo skipped Switch: SH2, Reload, and Metaphor.
The writing has been on the wall since Midori pretty plainly laid out that Atlus/Sega are now orienting around Switch 2. At this point in the Switch's lifecycle, that's probably the best approach.
They were proven wrong when they originally said Reload would be on switch, and were just proven wrong again when they got the number of square enix titles wrong in the Xbox showcase. There is very little reason to trust them this closely. Also the Switch will be either one or the best selling console of all time, skipping it for ports is in fact a terrible idea. Somehow games like Civ 7 and Lego Horizon felt switch was worth it.
 
Yeah, Metaphor is carrying on their P5 engine - I'm hoping that's what P6 and their major titles continue to use. UE is more "advanced" but I've also found it to largely be a bunch of smoke and mirrors where the "advanced" features are little more than tech demo fodder, while in the real world the engine has had serious issues achieving the fundamentals (years of titles with shader stutter).
This shows a gross misunderstanding of what engines are for. the advanced tools are for the sake of facilitating development. they make life easier for when you want to do a thing, not just so they can make tech demo masturbation material. and that's the crux of why tools like the P5 engine gets dumped: they can no longer facilitate development and the team doesn't feel it's worth spending the money to build new tools.

in the real world, games need to come out. if moving to unreal or unity or even a new internal engine accomplishes that, then that's the path to take.
 
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Midori track record for ATLUS-Switch is:

- Persona 3 Reload coming to Switch (FALSE)
- Switch 2 will get old ports of P3R, Metaphor (TBD)
- P6 will get a PS5/XBS/NSW2/PC release (TBD)

So at the moment her track record is one leak that was plain wrong, one leak that is about a game potentially 12 months away and one that is so safe that I can't even consider it a leak.
 
This really doesn’t work at all. SMTV should have made it far easier for them to have Reload on switch. In fact when asked they didn’t say they couldn’t port it, they said they never considered it at all. SH2’s team latest experience was developing on Nintendo consoles. Reload and SH2 also are less demanding then P5R (steam min reqs) and yet that game runs fine on Switch. These games run on potatos. Finally on this point SMTV ran fine on switch and is still Atlus’s best looking title this gen.

This doesn’t actually address the issue when all three new (not spin off) games they developed this gen that after the game paid for by Nintendo skipped Switch: SH2, Reload, and Metaphor.

They were proven wrong when they originally said Reload would be on switch, and were just proven wrong again when they got the number of square enix titles wrong in the Xbox showcase. There is very little reason to trust them this closely. Also the Switch will be either one or the best selling console of all time, skipping it for ports is in fact a terrible idea. Somehow games like Civ 7 and Lego Horizon felt switch was worth it.
I already mentioned Atlus' arbitrariness with platform choices - so I agree that a bunch of this stuff was possibly commissioned through their usual incoherent method before the time Sega stepped in (i.e. maybe they brought in Artdink to do work-for-hire on a specific set of hardware for SH2 and never went further than that). PC sysreqs aren't really meaningful compared to the content and how it's delivered - at the end of the day P5 was designed around PS3 specs and is therefore going to be easier to accommodate than P3R/SH2, both of which are running on off the shelf engines and targeting newer hardware.

And yes, skipping over the Switch has been a terrible failure by Atlus and others. SH2 and P3R should absolutely have been Switch games with simultaneous releases (there's little I've seen of Metaphor that justifies it skipping Switch either). I just think at this point there is probably a higher potential for both initial and long-tail sales if, instead of porting these in the final year of Switch 1, they're released in the first 18 months of Switch 2, with fidelity matching the other versions of the games, for another bite of the cherry.

This shows a gross misunderstanding of what engines are for. the advanced tools are for the sake of facilitating development. they make life easier for when you want to do a thing, not just so they can make tech demo masturbation material. and that's the crux of why tools like the P5 engine gets dumped: they can no longer facilitate development and the team doesn't feel it's worth spending the money to build new tools.

in the real world, games need to come out. if moving to unreal or unity or even a new internal engine accomplishes that, then that's the path to take.
I understand what game engines are for. I'm taking about the results of this approach, which, in the real world, have benefits and drawbacks like anything else. In this case, the very obvious drawback is that the off-the-shelf engines often don't deliver great results on weaker hardware, which is what you'd expect when using a one-size-fits-all solution that was not initially scoped for Switch. It also leaves studios at the whims of e.g. Epic and Unity offering a performant implementation of their engine on platforms you want to support.
 
And yes, skipping over the Switch has been a terrible failure by Atlus and others. SH2 and P3R should absolutely have been Switch games with simultaneous releases (there's little I've seen of Metaphor that justifies it skipping Switch either). I just think at this point there is probably a higher potential for both initial and long-tail sales if, instead of porting these in the final year of Switch 1, they're released in the first 18 months of Switch 2, with fidelity matching the other versions of the games, for another bite of the cherry.
They would probably fare better, both for sales + long term, if they also released it for Switch as well the data we saw from Sony’s data about PS4. I think it a missed opportunity to just hope Redacted does well with these titles.
 
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