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I was thinking the official header in one of the corners is probably good enough
1r4gWBe.png

Could be enough, but still, even logos need care. What is the clear space around the logo? Positioning and size rules? Maybe a monochrome version is preferred for color intensive graphs. Are only white and black backgrounds allowed. Etc. Things like that.

I'm not a designer, but I worked in a graphics department and remember they could loose their s*** because web-coders positioned the logo a few pixels off. :)

My point is, if certain visual quality criteria are met, then IB should not have problems allowing the use of logos.
 
Just to let people know, I have gone through the most recent Media Create thread sending a large number of reports for the admins & moderators to look over. Real tiresome to do & must be a pain for staff to look over but its just to give a sense of the number of bad posts in a short period of time which have the effect of being very off putting. Already raised the issue before back in late June (please read my posts on that page for context*) so I hope further progress can be made. Ultimately it's for all members to do better, even if that means posting less often. Perhaps we could encourage people to put off-topic comments in a saved draft & wait until you also have something else to contribute that is on-topic or sales data related before posting.

*To be clear, not claiming to be a model Install Base member so any criticism applies to me & certainly don't expect all posts to be in-depth analysis of sales data when there's little available.
 
Just to let people know, I have gone through the most recent Media Create thread sending a large number of reports for the admins & moderators to look over. Real tiresome to do & must be a pain for staff to look over but its just to give a sense of the number of bad posts in a short period of time which have the effect of being very off putting. Already raised the issue before back in late June (please read my posts on that page for context*) so I hope further progress can be made. Ultimately it's for all members to do better, even if that means posting less often. Perhaps we could encourage people to put off-topic comments in a saved draft & wait until you also have something else to contribute that is on-topic or sales data related before posting.

*To be clear, not claiming to be a model Install Base member so any criticism applies to me & certainly don't expect all posts to be in-depth analysis of sales data when there's little available.
Moderaction restructuration is underway so bear with us while we make improvements behind the scenes ;)
 
I know the Thanks button exists but Thanks mods, those MC Threads can be wild and confusing so thank you for trying to keep it at it should be
 
So @PillFencer @Lelouch0612 , I'd like to finally take the time and make graphs for all the popular Nintendo-franchises using the numbers from my thread here on IB. I thought about the sourcing-dilemma and this is a simple solution I came up with, but would like to hear your feedback before doing more graphs:

Graphs-Animal-Crossing-01.png

The dilemma imo was that we want to show people where these graphs come from, but we don't necessarily want IB owners/admins to bear any responsibility for these graphs, otherwise every single graph needed to be checked by IB staff, making it tedious and even preventing some spontaneous, fun graphs.

By putting the username as the source and then the full url of IB, people can easily identify WHO made a graph and where it came from, but it doesn't make it look like IB has any official affiliation with the graph, it's simply the place where it originated from. Those who want to find out more can register at IB and search for the username. In my case, they'd find the Sales Overview-thread where all the primary sources I use are listed. Ofc, someone who uses only one primary source can add that to the graph, too.

Maybe you guys have already thought up something better, though. I just happened to be in the mood for graph-making and this dilemma re-surfaced when I did the finishing touches ^^
 
Seems like a good solution yeah, though maybe "Graph: " instead of "Source: " would be better since the source should be what company the data/estimates came from?

(btw I strongly suggest adding something to show that the y axis is in million units)
 
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Seems like a good solution yeah, though maybe "Graph: " instead of "Source: " would be better since the source should be what company the data/estimates came from?

(btw I strongly suggest adding something to show that the y axis is in million units)
Maybe like this?

Graphs-Donkey-Kong-01.png
 
It might just be me but the point of a watermark is to both identify the origin of the content but also to be pretty hard to remove (without harming the visibility of the content itself)

That's why it's often put at some place on the content that would make it hard to remove it, here for someone with ill intents it's a rather easy thing to do. The more efficient way often used is to have it on a different layer behind the content with a low opacity setting (like 20%).
 
It might just be me but the point of a watermark is to both identify the origin of the content but also to be pretty hard to remove (without harming the visibility of the content itself)

That's why it's often put at some place on the content that would make it hard to remove it, here for someone with ill intents it's a rather easy thing to do. The more efficient way often used is to have it on a different layer behind the content with a low opacity setting (like 20%).
Hm, personally I wouldn't bother trying to outsmart truly malicious people who go to such lengths as to edit someone else's graph. I think the primariy issue is that IB graphs often land on other websites and, without ANY sourcing back to IB, leave the graph's credit to the unknown, when it should actually be positive publicity for IB. But that's just my opinion.
 
Yeah, I personally think the point of this (I might be mistaken, though) is less to create a strong watermark and more to just give the charts an easy identifier. Most people aren't really _taking credit_ for them, I don't think? Just reposting them, which that easily solves. I just don't see most people care about actively taking away the credit.
 
It might be because I'm a bit dumb, but if I wasn't aware of Install Base existence, I would read [email protected] as an email address lol

My personal opinion regarding the watermark subject is that, while, personally, I am not bothered about not getting credits, I think that having something like a watermark pointing to Install Base would be good for growing the community and reaching more people. That said, the Logo might be a bit flawed way of doing that, since the logo alone doesn't mean much for someone that never heard about Install Base. Although, it does help a bit, because if you search for "Hiska-kun" on google, you will get first results pointing to Resetera and Neogaf and only later pointing to Install Base, so someone really interested would be able to undertand that this is the current place the community is using. I agree with @Tokuiten suggestion of using the website address because it sounds more intuitive to me!
 
It might be because I'm a bit dumb, but if I wasn't aware of Install Base existence, I would read [email protected] as an email address lol

My personal opinion regarding the watermark subject is that, while, personally, I am not bothered about not getting credits, I think that having something like a watermark pointing to Install Base would be good for growing the community and reaching more people. That said, the Logo might be a bit flawed way of doing that, since the logo alone doesn't mean much for someone that never heard about Install Base. Although, it does help a bit, because if you search for "Hiska-kun" on google, you will get first results pointing to Resetera and Neogaf and only later pointing to Install Base, so someone really interested would be able to undertand that this is the current place the community is using. I agree with @Tokuiten suggestion of using the website address because it sounds more intuitive to me!
Just for the record: The reason I put my username there is because imo if I only put 'InstallBaseForum.com', it puts all the responsibility on IB. Whereas having the username on it makes it clear 'ah, this was made by some user from this forum', so if there's a mistake or something, it's not IB's fault, but the user's (in this case: mine).

I'm currently doing several graphs, so if there's no big opposition, I'll source them like the above. I can always edit them if need, just don't want to upload 10 grapgs or so and then someone says 'nah, bad, do it all again, but like THIS" 🤷‍♀️🙈

Edit: Oh, I'll change it a bit so it doesnt look like an email address though 😅)
 
Just for the record: The reason I put my username there is because imo if I only put 'InstallBaseForum.com', it puts all the responsibility on IB. Whereas having the username on it makes it clear 'ah, this was made by some user from this forum', so if there's a mistake or something, it's not IB's fault, but the user's (in this case: mine).

I'm currently doing several graphs, so if there's no big opposition, I'll source them like the above. I can always edit them if need, just don't want to upload 10 grapgs or so and then someone says 'nah, bad, do it all again, but like THIS" 🤷‍♀️🙈

Edit: Oh, I'll change it a bit so it doesnt look like an email address though 😅)
Maybe something like Graph: @Tokuiten , https://installbaseforum.com
 
I put a "-" instead of a ",", looks a bit more aesthetic imo ^^ This is where I'm currently at with my graph design. Good way to source?
It may be more aesthetic but tokuiten-installbaseforum.com can still be a site name, "tokuiten , installbaseforum.com" can't be. To solve any possible misunderstandings I would just add https:// (and before that whatever you want), this way it is clear what is the site name and what isn't. And as long as it also says tokuiten, it should be clear enough this is not a graph "made by installbase" (not that such a perception would be so bad imo).

So for example "Tokuiten - https://installbaseforum.com"
 
Still looks like is an official graph from the forum to me. Either wit the @ or the separation

edit: i read it like: Look at this graph, it was made by (me) _____ and this is my website _________.
 
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I just got this warning from staff:

"Keeps bringing topics and asking for the topic to be closed once being adressed by others members, either don't bring it from the start or adress it properly (from the start as well if possible, especially if said topic is known to be controversial)"

You can think this warning was deserved, but I'd like to give my perspective on this, and since it relates to more than me, I'll do it publically, in hope to something constructive come from it. I have no interest in viliyging moderation against myself, so please don't understand it as such. Here goes:

1) Whenever a Xenoblade-debate occurs in the MC-thread, the onus is put on me by moderation. In reality, after moderation told me to stop making everything about Xenoblade a couple months ago, I DID STOP. What didn't stop was people starting Xenoblade-discussions on their own. I was still reading these discussions, but I kept myself from participating. Mods didn't say anything against these discussions. Only when I later on would post something XB3-related and a discussion spawned from it, suddenly it was my fault again.

2) "controversial topics" like being criticial towards Nintendo's Direct yesterday. We live in a world where any criticism gets called out as "hate"; I don't think I posted anything yesterday that was out of line, the only difference is that I was more negative than most, because I didn't like what I saw. I would have liked to discuss this further today especially in comparison to all the BIG games PS5 got from 3rd-parties in its State of Play, but I guess that would be "controversial" again. There's also the "controversial" topic where I criticize the lack of big, ambitious Nintendo games and even though everyone understands what I mean, people are so eager to find a loophole in my given definition, as if that furthers debate in any way. When I say Nintendo lacks "mature", big games like Zelda and Xenoblade, it's not making for a good debate to try and find a way to "de-legitimize" my statement. Clearly I'm someone who knows about Nintendo's lineup, you saying "but there's game x and game y" has no bearing on why I think there's a lack of certain types of games in Nintendo's lineup, right? So instead of calling my statement "controversial", how about everyone be a bit more honest during debate and acknowledge "ok, I understand what you mean, I agree/disagree"? Criticism towards Nintendo is by no means the fringe opinion it is made to appear here. In a pure sales-context, maybe, although even then certain arguments can be made for the longterm.

And why do I keep telling people after a certain point "let's drop this topic now"? Because at the end I'm the one getting punished for it, despite not being responsible for what people post. No, starting a topic doesn't mean I'm at fault for everyone blowing up a MC-thread with some side-discussion. And more importantely, when I didn't even start a debate and just try to help Lelouch after he already issued 2-3 mod-posts telling everyone "pls drop the topic". That happened at least once. People kept talking about XB3, not started by me, Lelouch issued several warnings, I supported him, and in the end it was my fault again. Somehow.

To conclude: Just because my opinion on certain topics might differ from the "consensus" doesn't mean it's wrong to post about it, and when people refuse to understand what I mean, it's not my lack of proper explaining my point. Nevertheless, I apologize if some of my points didn't come across clearly enough and will try to be more precise in the future. Also, to this day, users at large keep ignoring mod postings that say "pls stop this discussion", it keeps happening. Instead of pointing at me, it'd be helpful to ensure that users better understand that a mod posting is not just a recommendation. And we talked about it before: It'd be helpful if a mod-posting didn't just appear somewhere inmidst of an undesired debate, but also was edited into the original posting that triggered the debate, so that no new users keep re-igniting the debate.

That's it. I hope that was constructive feedback. I will refrain from posting anything but my graphs for the time being.
 
Checked with the staff before posting, sent reports yesterday & have done so over the past few months as per my posts in this thread. Reported many others so you're not being singled out by me. Doesn't mean you only have to post graphs, just accept the advice in staff warnings rather than dispute the fact you've been derailing threads, refusing to engage with responses & then claim you want to stop discussion or move it to another thread. Its a pattern of posting behaviour that is off-putting to me & others. Provided evidence is used or any off-topic discussion naturally returns on topic in good time, enjoy posting here, just don't be weird about Xenoblade 3, Nintendo first parties or whatever issue could be debated elsewhere in depth. Moving on...
_____
The issue I actually wanted to raise today was for those who've created Output Strategy threads, are thread creators going to update the OPs or can they be reassigned ? Feels like a missed opportunity to have threads for developer/publishers with useful information & links. For the PlatinumGames thread I've created a rough outline for a Output Strategy format. 1st post Company Overview, 2nd sales data, 3rd useful links (including relevant InstallBase threads) & key staff information. Have a 'To Do List' in the OP of what information you're looking to add so others can work together on them. Feedback welcome on how to improve it before going on to make a From Software Output Strategy thread next after updating the PlatiniumGames one.
 
Is there a lot of people / output strategy threads? Between the recent acquisition by NetEase and 10 yr plan (with the first of three new IPs potentially being revealed later this year), I think the time is almost right for a Grasshopper Manufacture thread. I would do it, but I don't want to step on anyone else's toes if it's already in the works. Looking at you and your artistic posts @KR_EP or even @Ishaan since I know you posted the last major interview.
 
Dumb question for staff/mods, is it possible to create new polls after one has finished? Got one in the PlatinumGames thread for end of September, would like to create more polls afterwards.
Is there a lot of people / output strategy threads? Between the recent acquisition by NetEase and 10 yr plan (with the first of three new IPs potentially being revealed later this year), I think the time is almost right for a Grasshopper Manufacture thread. I would do it, but I don't want to step on anyone else's toes if it's already in the works. Looking at you and your artistic posts @KR_EP or even @Ishaan since I know you posted the last major interview.
Artistic? I'll take it. Currently six Output Strategy threads, links below with the OP author, hopefully they can all reply & confirm if they're going to still update each thread (no pressure).

@Abzeronow - OP STATUS - Morph Ball rolling forward with SEGA & Square Enix OPs, hiding & using Phantom Cloak to evade prowling EMbracerGroupMIs.
@Phantom Thief - OP STATUS - Phantom Thief by username, Phantom Thief by nature, too busy sneaking around the Atlus thread to visit our Velvet Room today.
@Ryuichi Naruhodo - OP STATUS - CAPCOM
@KR_EP - OP STATUS - Henshin-a-Go-Go Baby! PlatinumGames never loses its OP lustre.

As for your idea of working on a Grasshopper Manufacture Output Strategy thread, go for it! My advise would be to expand it & create one for Netease Games, so you can include Nagoshi Studio, Quantic Dream & Sakura Studio as well as Grasshopper but its up to you. Might expand mine into a Kadokawa one to include Spike Chunsoft & any of its various offshoots, such as the announcement that Ruina: Fairy Tale of the Forgotten Ruins is getting a remake. Shall we assign them below so we know who'd like to do what? People can always help others with graphs, sales data & release schedules, either by posting here or sending PMs. (edit: updating after post by @Abzeronow).

Made:
PlatinumGames - @KR_EP
SEGA - @Abzeronow
Square Enix - @Abzeronow

Assigned:
Kadokawa / FROM SOFTWARE / Spike Chunsoft - @KR_EP
Grasshopper Manufacture - @Tungsten

Vacant:
Embracer Group - 12 separate business departments, the level 1 naked fun run playthrough, the masocore of Output Strategy discussions. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the thread?
Bandai Namco - good suggestion by @Abzeronow - yet to be taken up by anyone. You fear the Gundam!
 
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I'm willing to let someone else take over as OP on the Embracer thread if they want to, otherwise I'll keep updating as news breaks. I plan on continuing to update the Sega and Square Enix threads as things happen (I might editing posts of mine on first page to cover recent sales data in the annual reports)

EDIT: There is definitely a need for a Bandai Namco thread.
 
Is there a lot of people / output strategy threads? Between the recent acquisition by NetEase and 10 yr plan (with the first of three new IPs potentially being revealed later this year), I think the time is almost right for a Grasshopper Manufacture thread. I would do it, but I don't want to step on anyone else's toes if it's already in the works. Looking at you and your artistic posts @KR_EP or even @Ishaan since I know you posted the last major interview.

Like @KR_EP , I'm more than happy for you to create a Grasshopper thread. Go for it. :)
 
... is this the right place to discuss that horrifying rare eye disease ad? It's a recurring mid-thread sucker-punch.

It haunts my nightmares.
 
What is the anime manga update status?
Will there be such an update or has it been decided not to be added?
 
Fiendslayer has been permabanned. @Fisico will follow up later with a detailed post on all of the chances that were provided to Fiend and our attempts to reach out on why they were constantly reported/ignored and as such actioned against and warned.

I thought it best to just state this outright now as now is when the action was taken.

So to put it simply and provide a "why?": A lot of warnings, constantly reported, previously banned, and many attempts by moderation to try and mediate but ultimately no attempts shown to improve. We've run out of olive branches in this case.
 
Fiendslayer has been permabanned. @Fisico will follow up later with a detailed post on all of the chances that were provided to Fiend and our attempts to reach out on why they were constantly reported/ignored and as such actioned against and warned.

I thought it best to just state this outright now as now is when the action was taken.

So to put it simply and provide a "why?": A lot of warnings, constantly reported, previously banned, and many attempts by moderation to try and mediate but ultimately no attempts shown to improve. We've run out of olive branches in this case.
Appreciate the transparency. I’m glad that their behavior was at least being noticed. I know you’re going to address it, but I still feel the need to say this:

I’m surprised it took so long.
 
What is the anime manga update status?
Will there be such an update or has it been decided not to be added?

Sorry, I missed this message.

We still want to go through with this at some point, but the difficulty is that we don't have any experience in this industry, and we don't know anyone in the community who does. We don't just want to have a generic Anime and Manga section, but one that continues with the sales spirit we have with video games.

If anyone wants to help get this started, please reach out to us.

Edit: We're ok on the Manga side, it's the Anime and BO side now.
 
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Sorry for being late but here's an attempt of a broader view on the permaban for Fiendslayer.

First of all despite me being the one giving an overview here of what happened in this case it doesn't necessary mean I was the moderator who was the most involved here, it was something which was coming for quite some time and took 58 reports (2nd most reported member), 9 warnings (most warned member), multiple direct attempts at communicating with him, coming from multiple different mods/admins and all of that despite being the 2nd most ignored member on the forum.

However I might have seen it from the start to the end (at least on Install Base) and I was also on a discord channel when he pinged me a few times he was actionned and I tried to convey to him what it was about, what were the reasoning behind his warning(s) and how to avoid it in the future.

But as everyone more or less saw it was mostly to no avail

moderation-2609228uihd.png



The main problem was that nearly nothing changed between his first and last warning, constant passive agressiveness, hostile behaviour, name calling, what didn't get him banned straight up before was that... he had a point, often, it just seemed like his way of communicating always involved the worst possible wording you can use between people trying to... interact with each other ? Which is what a forum is about.

I won't get into any deep psychological analysis but it really felt like, from his point of view, everything revolved around him.

He was warned ? Definitely moderation bias / or some fanboyism going on there
A report he did didn't lead to a warning ? Clearly there are some conspiration against him or having a pro nintendo/sony agenda
Nintendojitsu got perma banned ? That's his victory (although, just like him he was someone we had our eyes on from the start)
You disagree with him one way or another ? Open your eyes or just say straight up you are a fanboy
The perma ban ? That was his way of testing the limit of the moderation

An extra layer also came when some posts seem to be alluding about insiders info, and when confronted about it it lead to nothing.

We gave him plenty of time, leeway and showed a lot of leniency for months while he kept crossing the line we tried to draw repeatedly, all this time he made points that were valid, but he probably didn't (want to ?) realize that the way he was posting litterally went against what he was advocating for.
The more eggregious (from his pov) people he kept attacking weren't gonna back down from seeing his posts (if anything they thrived on that) some innocent bystanders got caught in the crossfire and all it did was to create a toxic environment in threads he participated in and just sucked all the goodwill and fun out of it, litterally discouraging third parties to engage at all.

There were some in the staff more adamant than others to perma ban him but none were really arguing against it, it was a discussion we've had for months and we just kept delaying the inevitable.

He also had a direct final warning less than a week ago giving the general sentiment I layed above

moderation-200922p6d36.png



But calming down / chill / back down are not things he wanted to do so this is where we end up today.

We know some members still appreciated him overall, we also know that there are sometimes some posts that are wild and drag the discussion down in various threads but in the end we are just individual and can't necessary catch a real grasp on how frequent/how harmful it is at times, so more than ever we encourage every member to use the report function when they feel like it might be necessary.
It won't lead to automatic action necessarily but we're sure to notice if it keeps piling up, the overall actions we can take are numerous before going straight up to a ban and, as you can see here, perma banned may take some time so be patient, help us when you can and bear with us when we do enforce any kind of action.

As for Fiendlsayer directly he might be made aware of this post, I don't think I said anything more than I already said to him, it's just more thoroughly written and layed out than before for everyone to see.

Everyone else feels free to chime in, this is the topic for that.
 
While I think Fiendslayer will be missed and maybe lengthier temporary bans would have been a better measure to set him straight (in the above screenshot there's not a single 1 month-ban, maybe that would have had some educational effect), I just want to say that I really hope "number of reports" plays no role AT ALL in someone's punishment. That can be easily abused and just because a lot of people take offense at someone's opinion doesn't mean they're in the right and the one person ought to be punished - since it's rather obvious, yes, I'm also talking about myself here. Dogpiling users with "fringe opinions" was a huge problem on Resetera, it shouldn't become a thing here. Rather, users should learn to just not react to a posting they dislike so very much.

Anyway, a permaban is a permaban, I guess, but if there's the slightest chance, I'd say turn it into a 3 month-ban. If he misbehaves after a return, turn it into a 6 month-ban. Eventually the problem solves itself one way or another.
 
Sorry, I missed this message.

We still want to go through with this at some point, but the difficulty is that we don't have any experience in this industry, and we don't know anyone in the community who does. We don't just want to have a generic Anime and Manga section, but one that continues with the sales spirit we have with video games.

If anyone wants to help get this started, please reach out to us.
I, alongside a few others here, can personally vouch for @Rouk' in this case. He’s got a ton of experience in the sales of manga in multiple markets.
 
I just want to say that I really hope "number of reports" plays no role AT ALL in someone's punishment. That can be easily abused and just because a lot of people take offense at someone's opinion doesn't mean they're in the right and the one person ought to be punished - since it's rather obvious, yes, I'm also talking about myself here. Dogpiling users with "fringe opinions" was a huge problem on Resetera, it shouldn't become a thing here. Rather, users should learn to just not react to a posting they dislike so very much.

Anyway, a permaban is a permaban, I guess, but if there's the slightest chance, I'd say turn it into a 3 month-ban. If he misbehaves after a return, turn it into a 6 month-ban. Eventually the problem solves itself one way or another.

The screenshot above is only about warnings, Fiendslayer was threadbanned and had a temp ban once (I think ? I can't seem to find an history for that), like the second screenshot says there's a framework of clearer escalation that should be published here and enforced as far as sanctions go soon enough, but to be fair in Fiendslayer's case (and all others previously permabanned members) that wouldn't have changed anything, time and time again there was no will from him to make any kind of compromise.

He is how he is and after pondering about it a long time (a whole year) and seeing how it unveiled on the forum, we deemed that the negative outweighed the positive as far as maintaining a healthy community goes.

As for the number of reports, that's one criteria amongst many others, for example early on when the forum started someone had to self report his thread to have the title changed (something the function isn't meant to be used for but it worked as far as getting someone from moderation to notice it quickly), to this day it's still used to delete accidental double posts/merge threads and we aren't gonna action anyone based on that.

It can be used as a (very) broad indicator, which is what we do, we aren't blind to not know it can be abused potentially (which it isn't in a meaningful way since the forum started) or that posts could be misunderstood (it was recently the case for one of Chris post about Bandai Namco Romania)
 
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I think that at first we could open a section only dedicated to mangas and latter open to Anime and BO.

manga section could be a test to see how these sections are received by the communtie.
 
Yep, and we did talk to @Rouk' :)

It is more on the Anime and BO side that we are still looking .
For anime, since it's all Oricon anyway, I could post the DVD/BD rankings
I just can't really comment on the data, cause I don't know much about that.
Daily top 10 BD (no numbers)
Weekly Top 20 BD
Weekly Top 30 DVD
Weekly Top 10 Series
Monthly Top 20 Series
and then, the yearly stuff.
It's not too much work to TL all that.

Corpse would be the obvious choice for the handling of Japanese box-office, but I believe she has said before she isn't interested in posting in multiple forums at a time. But iirc, she also doesn't mind if people repost what's posted on WoKJ elsewhere.
So that could be a start.
There's still the rest of the world though.
But I feel like a BO section would just be that: reposts of what's posted in already established communities (Box Office Theory, etc)

Difference with Manga or Anime is that nowadays, there is no other forum with established active sales communities
 
I agree starting with a manga forum could be worthwhile even without anime info, even if to test how an expansion would work. It would maybe also help to reach other people informed about anime.
 
I dunno if he’s in yet or still in the waiting list, but one of the new applicants is pretty into box office sales. Although I will say that kind of talk may be redundant since there may be other forums that specialize in that.

I think that at first we could open a section only dedicated to mangas and latter open to Anime and BO.

manga section could be a test to see how these sections are received by the communtie.
I agree with this idea a lot, actually.
 
My biggest issue with FS, even if their comments were not aimed directly at me, was the colorful euphemisms they would use to more or less insult others. Phrases like “soft brained” and “magical thinking” come to mind.

I remember having discussions with others about certain people over using words like “ridiculous” and “nonsense”. In my opinion, all of the above are just different ways of saying that another person’s thoughts are stupid or dumb.

And many times, if you would take out the first one or two sentences of what a person was saying, it would be a perfectly fine comment. It felt to me that some members felt the need to get a personal little jab in there either due to frustration or something else.

My hope is that in the future, the moderation team will hand out warnings more quickly when it comes to insults that are disguised or dressed up to make them seem less directly hostile.
 
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My biggest issue with FS, even if their comments were not aimed directly at me, was the colorful euphemisms they would use to more or less insult others. Phrases like “soft brained” and “magical thinking” come to mind.

I remember having discussions with others about certain people over using words like ridiculous and nonsense. In my opinion, all of the above are just different ways of saying that another person’s thoughts are stupid or dumb.

And many times, if you would take out the first one or two sentences of what a person was saying, it would be a perfectly fine comment. It felt to me that some members felt the need to get a personal a little jab in there either due to frustration or something else.

My hope is that in the future, the moderation team will hand out warnings more quickly when it comes to insults that are disguised or dressed up to make them seem less directly hostile.
I feel the same. No need to wait so long or that many reports and warnings.
 
I voiced my concerns regarding new sections of the forum in the last survey and I believe that now is an opportune moment to bring my two cents. I will focus on the Manga section not only because it is the one being discussed right now, but also because it is the one I have (had?!) some 'experience' (and with 'experience' I mean that I used to read about it, don't misunderstand this!).

First, I would like to say that I haven't watched the industry closely for the last few years, so some things I will say might not be true anymore. Anyway, I believe that the Manga industry discussion is more prone to be personal and emotive than Video game discussion. To explain why I believe that would happen, we need to look into the difference between the cycle of a manga and the cycle of a video game:

A Video Game is developed for years under secrecy; they are then at some point announced and the marketing starts with trailers, gameplays, demos, events, etc, then it eventually comes out. Generally, pre-release discussion regarding video games resolves around pre-orders, hype, trailer reception, marketing volume, etc, and then, when the game is out, depending on more personal experiences, we can discuss if a game can do well further than its first week or not because of WoM or something related. Judging if a game did well or not is a bit more grounded, since we look at sales, rankings, shipments, players, MTX revenue, etc.

A manga is initially published in a Magazine and, unlike a video game, we have full access to what is going to be sold in volumes from day one. You usually can't play the Level 1 or 2 from a video game before it come out, but for mangas you can read it exactly as it will come out for sale later, this alone already leaves some room for discussions like "I think that the sales of the next volume of manga X will decrease because chapter Y destroyed the whole series", and while chapters being good or bad obviously do influence sales, can lead to multiple pages of personal opinion on chapter Y that has not much to do with sales.

Going forward, the production of a manga volume take some time, but there is generally a rule for Weekly Magazines that is "The future of a series might be decided by the chapter 7", I won't go into the super specifics of why this happen (I'm not even sure if I know lol), but magazine have something called Table of Contents (ToC), that is arbitrarily decided by the editors of the magazine, so while it is not necessarily a ranking of popularity, series that rank higher usually are the ones that the department want to give more promotion. The ToC ranking of new series is usually unconsidered until chapter 7, but if a series ranks in the lower part (bottom) of the ToC after that, there is a great chance that the series already is on watch to be canceled.

Then, the volume comes out and we can get some idea of how it is doing, either by looking at Oricon Top 50 numbers (usually only for bigger series) or Shoseki Rankings estimates. but here comes another twist: Sales are not everything for multiple series. A good example of that are Jump Gag series, often misunderstood and hated by the western community for surviving despite not being big sellers (and because these series usually does not fit their tastes) but having great internal popularity (Jump readers votes) that is enough to let them live. To give a practical example of that, Spring Weapon No.1 survived for 1.5 years in a far more competitive Jump lineup despite not being a great seller but having enough internal popularity (we learned that from the Popularity Contest good number of votes, iirc). Another practical example is the recent Phantom Seer, that was canceled despite being an OK seller. But how do we know if a game is popular internally or not? Well, ToC is our best guess, but it does not tell the full story, just like well established gag series used to rank in the very last position of the ToC despite being popular (I think they don't do that on Jump anymore, though), so a lot of times we might never know. Of course, internal popularity is only one of the many factors that might influence if a series is doing good/will survive or not. Marry Grave, for example, was originally canceled by Weekly Shounen Sunday because it was not popular enough domestically, but the author received proposals of keeping the series going because of the big popularity of the series overseas (it got licensed in many countries). Jump have a big base worldwide nowadays that probably influences on their decision making.

After the volume is out, the manga cycle restarts.

Anyway, I wrote too much and my original point might be a bit confusing now, but what I meant was that the Manga industry is pretty nuanced and it can be hard to keep strict sales talk. I'm not against a section talking about manga, but I think that, more than ever, we, as a community, will need to policy and moderate ourselves so that we don't cross the line between personal opinion and sales-related opinions, otherwise the moderation team will have a hard time.

Regarding recommendations for the forum, I'm glad that @Rouk' was already mentioned because they were the first person I recommended to helping on the manga side in the survey (seriously, everyone should check their amazing Oricon sales database), but I also know that Sakaki does a great job covering the Shougakukan (more focused on Sunday side) and Josu_ke does a great job with infographics, but I don't know them personally and have no idea if they would be interested in participating here.
 
I voiced my concerns regarding new sections of the forum in the last survey and I believe that now is an opportune moment to bring my two cents. I will focus on the Manga section not only because it is the one being discussed right now, but also because it is the one I have (had?!) some 'experience' (and with 'experience' I mean that I used to read about it, don't misunderstand this!).

First, I would like to say that I haven't watched the industry closely for the last few years, so some things I will say might not be true anymore. Anyway, I believe that the Manga industry discussion is more prone to be personal and emotive than Video game discussion. To explain why I believe that would happen, we need to look into the difference between the cycle of a manga and the cycle of a video game:

A Video Game is developed for years under secrecy; they are then at some point announced and the marketing starts with trailers, gameplays, demos, events, etc, then it eventually comes out. Generally, pre-release discussion regarding video games resolves around pre-orders, hype, trailer reception, marketing volume, etc, and then, when the game is out, depending on more personal experiences, we can discuss if a game can do well further than its first week or not because of WoM or something related. Judging if a game did well or not is a bit more grounded, since we look at sales, rankings, shipments, players, MTX revenue, etc.

A manga is initially published in a Magazine and, unlike a video game, we have full access to what is going to be sold in volumes from day one. You usually can't play the Level 1 or 2 from a video game before it come out, but for mangas you can read it exactly as it will come out for sale later, this alone already leaves some room for discussions like "I think that the sales of the next volume of manga X will decrease because chapter Y destroyed the whole series", and while chapters being good or bad obviously do influence sales, can lead to multiple pages of personal opinion on chapter Y that has not much to do with sales.

Going forward, the production of a manga volume take some time, but there is generally a rule for Weekly Magazines that is "The future of a series might be decided by the chapter 7", I won't go into the super specifics of why this happen (I'm not even sure if I know lol), but magazine have something called Table of Contents (ToC), that is arbitrarily decided by the editors of the magazine, so while it is not necessarily a ranking of popularity, series that rank higher usually are the ones that the department want to give more promotion. The ToC ranking of new series is usually unconsidered until chapter 7, but if a series ranks in the lower part (bottom) of the ToC after that, there is a great chance that the series already is on watch to be canceled.

Then, the volume comes out and we can get some idea of how it is doing, either by looking at Oricon Top 50 numbers (usually only for bigger series) or Shoseki Rankings estimates. but here comes another twist: Sales are not everything for multiple series. A good example of that are Jump Gag series, often misunderstood and hated by the western community for surviving despite not being big sellers (and because these series usually does not fit their tastes) but having great internal popularity (Jump readers votes) that is enough to let them live. To give a practical example of that, Spring Weapon No.1 survived for 1.5 years in a far more competitive Jump lineup despite not being a great seller but having enough internal popularity (we learned that from the Popularity Contest good number of votes, iirc). Another practical example is the recent Phantom Seer, that was canceled despite being an OK seller. But how do we know if a game is popular internally or not? Well, ToC is our best guess, but it does not tell the full story, just like well established gag series used to rank in the very last position of the ToC despite being popular (I think they don't do that on Jump anymore, though), so a lot of times we might never know. Of course, internal popularity is only one of the many factors that might influence if a series is doing good/will survive or not. Marry Grave, for example, was originally canceled by Weekly Shounen Sunday because it was not popular enough domestically, but the author received proposals of keeping the series going because of the big popularity of the series overseas (it got licensed in many countries). Jump have a big base worldwide nowadays that probably influences on their decision making.

After the volume is out, the manga cycle restarts.

Anyway, I wrote too much and my original point might be a bit confusing now, but what I meant was that the Manga industry is pretty nuanced and it can be hard to keep strict sales talk. I'm not against a section talking about manga, but I think that, more than ever, we, as a community, will need to policy and moderate ourselves so that we don't cross the line between personal opinion and sales-related opinions, otherwise the moderation team will have a hard time.

Regarding recommendations for the forum, I'm glad that @Rouk' was already mentioned because they were the first person I recommended to helping on the manga side in the survey (seriously, everyone should check their amazing Oricon sales database), but I also know that Sakaki does a great job covering the Shougakukan (more focused on Sunday side) and Josu_ke does a great job with infographics, but I don't know them personally and have no idea if they would be interested in participating here.
You make a very good points there when it comes to your concern about a manga forum, and I for the most part agree with you. However, as someone who has been following the industry for a couple years now, I would like to put forth the argument that I believe discussions around manga sales would be pretty similar to the current discussions here surrounding video game sales.
There are many points of reference when it comes to discussions how well a manga will sell and if it will survive in the long term: Oricon’s weekly Top 50 rankings and sales, Shoseki’s weekly Top 500 rankings and estimations, Amazon pre-order rankings, circulation numbers for said manga (most surviving manga get these), social media engagement (mostly Twitter and YouTube, but I know of a manga that was saved by TikTok), the state of the magazine the manga is currently running in, the amount of views each chapter has (if the magazine is digital), awards, TV show promotions, and of course adaptations of said manga. Most of these factors, if not all, do come into play.

I personally think many people who are really into manga sales to talk on this forum are aware that their personal opinion doesn’t matter at all when it comes to sales, as there are a ton of different factors to consider when it comes to how well a manga’s doing. Of course, a manga’s general appeal is one of them, which is definitely the most prone to derailing discussion, but appeal has also been a talking point in video game sales as well.
From what I hear, that 8-chapter rule really only applies to Jump, and came during a time where the magazine was far more cutthroat. You are right about ToC, though (one bottom ranking isn’t too bad - the alarms go off only when the series keeps staying at the bottom). Phantom Seer, to be honest, is a truly weird case that I can only reasonably chalk up to editorial bias (bias being another common discussion in here, especially when it comes to certain third-parties differing attitudes towards Sony and Nintendo). There hasn’t really been a situation quite like it since in Jump.
Also, while Shueisha (the company behind Jump) is so far ahead of other publishers when it comes to establishing an overseas presence, international volume sales still very much pale in comparison to domestic. Most magazines still primarily look at a manga’s popularity in Japan when deciding their fate. (See: Red Hood and Time Paradox Ghostwriter)
And there’s new wrinkles in the manga discussion sales past volume one, such as how much will sales increase or decrease between volumes or some of factors mentioned previously. Holidays, too. Similar to how we discuss legs for a video game.

I’m not sure about Sakaki, per se, but I did contact Josu_ke through Discord and he really likes the idea of a manga thread here and he’d be happy to help. He just needs to get his invitation here accepted first. XD
 
Chiming in on the manga/anime sales debate:

Whether or not discussion would instantly be as interesting/fun/elaborate as game sales discussion is imo of secondary importance. Media-Create threads weren't what they are today from the beginning either. Personally, what I'd be most interested in is to get an overview of manga and anime sales AT ALL (this is where it'd be important to have a nice, clean structure for weekly threads like Chris and hiska provide for Famitsu numbers), because right now I know nothing about it and it's too tiresome to read through walls of numbers on some other websites. A nice, slow start here on IB using an easily palatable presentation would be perfect imo.

Over time, more people will get a grasp on how manga and anime sales work, monthly and yearly sales can be added, and ultimately these threads would both allow people to read the Japanese manga and anime industry as well as give better context to the sales of anime video games. That's what I'd hope to see from manga and anime sales being added to IB. I do not expect the perfect discussion, whatever that is, right off the bat. However, I also don't think people are gonna insult each other over manga and anime sales. It's gonna be fine. That's my 2 cents.
 
Chiming in on the manga/anime sales debate:

Whether or not discussion would instantly be as interesting/fun/elaborate as game sales discussion is imo of secondary importance. Media-Create threads weren't what they are today from the beginning either. Personally, what I'd be most interested in is to get an overview of manga and anime sales AT ALL (this is where it'd be important to have a nice, clean structure for weekly threads like Chris and hiska provide for Famitsu numbers), because right now I know nothing about it and it's too tiresome to read through walls of numbers on some other websites. A nice, slow start here on IB using an easily palatable presentation would be perfect imo.

Over time, more people will get a grasp on how manga and anime sales work, monthly and yearly sales can be added, and ultimately these threads would both allow people to read the Japanese manga and anime industry as well as give better context to the sales of anime video games. That's what I'd hope to see from manga and anime sales being added to IB. I do not expect the perfect discussion, whatever that is, right off the bat. However, I also don't think people are gonna insult each other over manga and anime sales. It's gonna be fine. That's my 2 cents.
From my experience with my manga sales threads on Era, discussion is harmless. There isn't a lot, but it's mostly questions from people who want to know more about the subject or generic reaction posts such as "oh nice, X series is doing well!".
The few times there has been an actual debate, it never escalated to awful levels
 
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