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Embracer Group output strategy | Discussion

I am surprised that Saudi did not buy more shares of Embracer. They already owned some but maybe this move was done in order to later buy Embracer? Because personally I don't understand why Saudis would want to fund games despite not having a platform.

And some people believed it was Microsoft, which did not make sense because MSFT literally does not make verbal promises for such deals.
 
I am surprised that Saudi did not buy more shares of Embracer. They already owned some but maybe this move was done in order to later buy Embracer? Because personally I don't understand why Saudis would want to fund games despite not having a platform.

And some people believed it was Microsoft, which did not make sense because MSFT literally does not make verbal promises for such deals.
yeah on MS thing because jez said it wasn't MS since the like to do written contracts for legal and other reasons
 
Can't say I'm unhappy it didn't go through

That said, if you're relying on verbal agreements, shit was gonna be toxic and dangerous
 
Yeah, 2bn is a bit too much money not to have an actual written contract for. At the very least, try NOT to act like it's already been signed and be prepared for bad news. Hopefully not too many people will lose their job over this bs.

And yikes @ the identity of the investors. Wonder if that was a move to try and get a cheaper deal on Embracer, or some real change in their investment strategy.
 
I feel like despite this deal falling trough Embracer has been doing quite great this year with Dead Island 2 and Remnant 2. They also own the devs behing Space Marine 2 which imho is a guaranteed hit.
 
I feel like despite this deal falling trough Embracer has been doing quite great this year with Dead Island 2 and Remnant 2. They also own the devs behing Space Marine 2 which imho is a guaranteed hit.
This year is looking much better, but 2022/23 was a big disaster in terms of new releases, and that will press on their profitability for the time being, because the development costs of these games are still being amortised (33% in first three months after release; 33% in month 4-12; 33% in month 13-24), while not generating as much revenue so long after release as they would have done if the quality was higher and the releases were more successful. And platformholders are willing to pay more for inclusion in subscription services if the release was successful on the buy-to-play market in the first place. So some of these games will cost them more in depreciation/amortisation than they generate in net sales.
 
I'm still desperate for them to hit that Switch port button and let the Tomb Raiders, Thiefs, Kains and especially Deus Exes flow.

I still find it hilarious SE held on to Gex though, lol. I wonder if it's the same for a lot of the older Core/CD properties?
 
Well, maybe when they inevitably bring those games to PS5/XB (as native ports, not just BC), Switch (2) ports will no doubt follow later (as per their current release strategy).
 
Well, maybe when they inevitably bring those games to PS5/XB (as native ports, not just BC), Switch (2) ports will no doubt follow later (as per their current release strategy).
I feel like the "inevitably"'s and "laters"'s are a big problem with Embracer hoovering everything up. They got a fuckload of IPs now, and the expectation was to start porting shit. But they don't
 
Well, maybe when they inevitably bring those games to PS5/XB (as native ports, not just BC), Switch (2) ports will no doubt follow later (as per their current release strategy).
I was talking more about the older Eidos stuff. Though some of the newer PS4/XBO titles could probably swing Switch downports too if they wanted but I'd agree at this point Switch 2 is probably close enough to save for releases like the TR Survivor trilogy or DE Mankind Divided.

Stuff like the TR Legend trilogy, DE Human Revolution, Thief or even going to the older PS1/2 era stuff, get that on the current Switch. Embracer's been great about this with their THQ/Koch/Gearbox/etc properties so I'm eager for them to extend the catalog love to Eidos and hopefully sooner than later.
 
I feel like despite this deal falling trough Embracer has been doing quite great this year with Dead Island 2 and Remnant 2. They also own the devs behing Space Marine 2 which imho is a guaranteed hit.

Space Marine 1 wasn't exactly a fire starter, though. While I loved the game I definitely remain skeptical of just how well it will do.
 
I feel like the "inevitably"'s and "laters"'s are a big problem with Embracer hoovering everything up. They got a fuckload of IPs now, and the expectation was to start porting shit. But they don't

Yup, that's why I never was all that enthused about all the stuff they were gobbling up. Compared to all the IP they own, and the number of project they claim to have in progress (50 in 2019), their number of annual releases is quite underwhelming. Of course, dev takes time, but it never seemed like they were ramping up releases or anything.

Also, it didn't feel like they had a proper strategy other than "buy everything and hope it'll pay off in the end", with heavy focus on catalogue sales (à la Capcom). And even then, their games don't seem to enjoy the same longetivity as Capcom games.

Besides, there's only so much one company can make on its own. Even "simple" ports can take a surprisingly large amount of ressources/time (and with games growing in complexity, this is only going to get worse), and that's only talking about dev side. There's also marketing/PR, you need to give each game enough spotlight and avoid them cannibalising each other. And people don't have infinite money, and certainly not infinite time either, so they'll always make choices in the end, so you can't start releasing games all factory-like like cheap romance novels. So yeah, they bought all those IPs, cool, but then what?

Embracer's always looked like another IP disaster in the making to me (if they do fall under like THQ before them, then a whole load of IPs will end up lost in the shuffle.). That or another company (Microsoft?) swoops in and buys a whole ton of IPs on the super cheap. Anyway, really hope they managed to weather that failed deal and get back on their feet.

I was talking more about the older Eidos stuff. Though some of the newer PS4/XBO titles could probably swing Switch downports too if they wanted but I'd agree at this point Switch 2 is probably close enough to save for releases like the TR Survivor trilogy or DE Mankind Divided.

Stuff like the TR Legend trilogy, DE Human Revolution, Thief or even going to the older PS1/2 era stuff, get that on the current Switch. Embracer's been great about this with their THQ/Koch/Gearbox/etc properties so I'm eager for them to extend the catalog love to Eidos and hopefully sooner than later.
Actually, that's the kind of games I was thinking about. When they feel like they want Deus EX HR, TR Trilogy, and the likes on "new gen" consoles, then we'll see that stuff on Switch (2) too. Eventually.
 
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Space Marine 1 wasn't exactly a fire starter, though. While I loved the game I definitely remain skeptical of just how well it will do.
We shouldn't expect too much from Space Marine 2, but I feel the new game has a lot more buzz around it than the first one. A lot of videos and trailers for the game on Focus Entertainment's YouTube channel have 2m+ views, and I haven't bothered looking up uploads on other channels for the trailers that they premiered at The Game Awards or Summer Game Fest. Of course the big question is how many will translate into actual sales, and also, how many sales do they need and are they targetting? Anyway, I think the original didn't reach 1 million units sold, right? I guess the new game will easily outsell it.
 

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More bad news for Embracer. Unfortunately, this isn't too surprising after the performance of Saints Row.
 
I wonder what else Embracer has on the chopping block. Plaion as a publisher seems like the greatest weight on Embracer's neck so I expect the largest cuts will be across them. The Amplifier Game Invest also seems to show low returns but, that's like a dozen indie studios
 
I wonder what else Embracer has on the chopping block. Plaion as a publisher seems like the greatest weight on Embracer's neck so I expect the largest cuts will be across them. The Amplifier Game Invest also seems to show low returns but, that's like a dozen indie studios
According to Embracer's websites, Plaion published Hot Wheels, System Shock and Dead Island 2. It doesn't sound like a bad track record
 
Volition was under Plaion and they published Saints Row. Volition was probably their largest and highest profile studio too.
 
Imho next on the chopping block are smaller studios they purchased that failed to make significant progress in development, they made so many purchases that there's bound to be some games in development hell or who faced several internal delays.

I think they absolutely need to merge THQ and Plaion, I get keeping Gearbox on its own for branding purposes, but 3 publishers under the same company is nuts.
 
Beyond Volition, there have been layoffs at Gearbox Publishing. Unfortunate as with Remnant 2, it seems Gearbox Publishing was starting to do some turn around.

According to Embracer's websites, Plaion published Hot Wheels, System Shock and Dead Island 2. It doesn't sound like a bad track record
Plaion is like double the size of THQ Nordic but with a much smaller output. The idea would be to trim them down and possibly integrate the game publisher side into THQ Nordic with the distribution side turning back into Koch Media. The competing nature of the branches of Embracer kind of needs to be cut down so they can turn around so they are more efficient and turn around a profit.
 
Imho next on the chopping block are smaller studios they purchased that failed to make significant progress in development, they made so many purchases that there's bound to be some games in development hell or who faced several internal delays.

I think they absolutely need to merge THQ and Plaion, I get keeping Gearbox on its own for branding purposes, but 3 publishers under the same company is nuts.
They also have Saber Interactive (including Aspyr), Coffee Stain, CDE Entertainment (Eidos & CD) set up as separate publishers. And also smaller boutique pubs like Bitwave or Limited Run and occassionally Asmodee for digital versions of their board games.
 
Time for a 15 month followup on my 2022 thoughts from this thread.

Thus far, it has focussed on growing at all costs, and that doesn't seem to be slowing, although it might because their stock price lost it's momentum in 2021

It did indeed slow.

In the long term, I don't know what will happen if they hit hard times.

Now we know!


For now I expect them to basically act as content brokers for the various forms of videogame welfare - platform exclusivity deals (Consoles, Epic) and content library deals (GP, PS+ etc) mostly. I don't know if or when they'll feel confident enough to stop seeking external publishers for some projects. That's probably going to require at least one major hit, and maybe several. I expect Eidos post-acquisition to either be externally published or take some kind of major deal to help fund those games.

Epic pumped the brakes hard on these kinds of deals and according to some recent reporting, subscriptions have maybe gotten a little more choosy about which deals they take and offering them at less favorable terms. That was in the context of indie publishers, but I wouldn't be surprised if similar effects are being felt at AA scale, too.

I spent some time wondering if they were going to stop seeking external publishers and noted it would require big hits - these failed to materialize in time.
 
Beyond Volition, there have been layoffs at Gearbox Publishing. Unfortunate as with Remnant 2, it seems Gearbox Publishing was starting to do some turn around.


Plaion is like double the size of THQ Nordic but with a much smaller output. The idea would be to trim them down and possibly integrate the game publisher side into THQ Nordic with the distribution side turning back into Koch Media. The competing nature of the branches of Embracer kind of needs to be cut down so they can turn around so they are more efficient and turn around a profit.
OH HEY! Twinsies!
My big confusion with Embracer is their absolute inefficiency, because they’re not a publisher in the strictest sense, they’re a holding corporation. They now own… what, 4 or 5 separate publishing brands that operate independently with their own separate management structures? There are some real efficiencies to be had with their business without losing the flexibility they currently enjoy.

EDIT: That said, I genuinely appreciate that they seem committed to smaller-scale game production, rather than trying to roll all their current IPs into the big-budget AAA space.
Looks like my original post about business inefficiency has come to a head, when one of major planks of their plans looks to be redundancy elimination. Maybe by 2024, they’ll be down to only operating 2 publishing arms with the others converted into strictly game studios.
The Volition closure was the only shocker, but not a big one, either. Studios that devolve into one-trick ponies who can’t do their trick anymore or don’t learn a new one always end up like this.

But yeah, the other shoe finally dropped and the publishing arms are being scaled back either to prepare to merge, or to have all these publishing arms share a single pool of employee resources that do not require duplication across all of them. Likely the former.
 
I can see Plaion, THQ Nordic and Gearbox all being merged. Maybe CDE and Saber/Aspyr too. I think the rest probably stay separate though, groups like Coffee Stain or LRG are more specialized really.
 
Woah, the Gearbox unit is kind of a major group for Embracer. I wonder if T2 might be interested given their history?

Anyway, Gearbox includes a bunch of studios and divisions now.

Gearbox Entertainment
  • Captured Dimensions
  • Cryptic Studios
  • Gearbox Publishing
  • Gearbox Properties
  • Gearbox Software (Montréal, Québec, Shanghai)
  • Gearbox Studios
  • Lost Boys Interactive
 
What the hell? Embracer just bought Gearbox Entertainment 2.5 years ago.
 
I know that $2b is a lot of money, but it's still crazy to me that the dominoes began to tumble so quickly after that deal fell through. It just goes to show how the rapid acquisition of assets is unwieldy even at the best of times. At least the Tomb Raider deal with Amazon is still in place.
 
Looks like some people already manifested their interest for GB, which is why they're considering selling it:

Embracer is weighing selling the unit, which is known for first-person shooter game Borderlands, after receiving interest from third parties, two of the people said.
 
Looks like some people already manifested their interest for GB, which is why they're considering selling it:


Hopefully Take Two is one of the potential buyers.
 
Hopefully Take Two is one of the potential buyers.

Take Two Interactive would make sense since they own the IP and/or publishing rights for Borderlands.

I can see Embracer Group unloading several studios and cutting costs. They grew way too big way too fast and unlike Microsoft for example, they're not a $3T dollar company that can absorb what they acquire or have to be reliant on a $2B dollar verbal deal.

For me, im hoping Microsoft acquires Crystal Dynamics, Eidos Montreal (both are working on Microsoft first party games), Dambuster (great comeback with Dead Island 2), Gunfire Games (Remnant 2 is great and Darksiders is awesome) and 4A Games (Metro) because these are in my mind, the cream of the crop. They all fit with Microsoft, would probably be cheap to acquire as the IP's would probably cost more than the studios themselves and give them all the security blanket that they don't have guaranteed with Embracer Group.

Have to wait and see what happens.
 
Plaion, I can see becoming independent again, with all the studios under them. they are capable of being self-sufficient, I think
 
Embracer is very weird because there's just nothing coming out.

They've released like... Saints Row and the Destroy All Humans ports?

They did Darksiders 3 five years ago I guess?

They're barely even porting things.

Like, a TimeSplitters 2+3 port could make some money.

But instead... Nothing whatsoever.

It's not like there's anything even announced either?

Lars Wingefors seems completely out of his depth.
 
Okay, did miss those.

But it still feels like their release pace is very slow.
 
Take Two Interactive would make sense since they own the IP and/or publishing rights for Borderlands.

I can see Embracer Group unloading several studios and cutting costs. They grew way too big way too fast and unlike Microsoft for example, they're not a $3T dollar company that can absorb what they acquire or have to be reliant on a $2B dollar verbal deal.

For me, im hoping Microsoft acquires Crystal Dynamics, Eidos Montreal (both are working on Microsoft first party games), Dambuster (great comeback with Dead Island 2), Gunfire Games (Remnant 2 is great and Darksiders is awesome) and 4A Games (Metro) because these are in my mind, the cream of the crop. They all fit with Microsoft, would probably be cheap to acquire as the IP's would probably cost more than the studios themselves and give them all the security blanket that they don't have guaranteed with Embracer Group.

Have to wait and see what happens.
Yeah, Embracer's likely going to be offloading some of these studios in the coming months. Personally, I don't want MS to get all of those studios you mentioned, but that's mainly because I want future Tomb Raider, Hitman, and Metro games to remain multiplatform, if at all possible. However, MS would likely be a better steward than Embracer.
 
Okay, did miss those.

But it still feels like their release pace is very slow.
It's more that there's a lot you probably don't pay attention to. THQ Nordic alone puts out like 10 games a year though most are ports like Titan Quest, Gothic and Risen. Plaion is on the weaker side though they released Saints Row last year and Dead Island 2 this year. All the branches seem to have their own indie brand. Saber Interactive has some major releases between Aspyr's Star Wars remasters, the upcoming Mudrunner, the 2K playgrounds/battlegrounds and that Evil Dead game. Valheim was published them through Coffee Stain Publishing I believe. Asmodee just launched console Gloomhaven too
 
It's more that there's a lot you probably don't pay attention to. THQ Nordic alone puts out like 10 games a year though most are ports like Titan Quest, Gothic and Risen. Plaion is on the weaker side though they released Saints Row last year and Dead Island 2 this year. All the branches seem to have their own indie brand. Saber Interactive has some major releases between Aspyr's Star Wars remasters, the upcoming Mudrunner, the 2K playgrounds/battlegrounds and that Evil Dead game. Valheim was published them through Coffee Stain Publishing I believe. Asmodee just launched console Gloomhaven too

That could be the case, I may just be too focused on the IPs they bought that I was interested in.
 
They made a bunch of acquisitions and now it seems they can't handle.

I do think it was obvious that they were focussed on snowballing as quickly as they could. The loop of raise money with share issue > acquire > regain value and issue more shares worked well for a while.

Whether the end goal was selling out, or eventually becoming a properly large player in the industry I was less clear on.

Their policy of non-interference with their acquisitions made the sales pitch stronger (they'd promise a lot of freedom), but also led to considerable redundancy. The fact that it made reselling or divesting companies simpler probably wasn't lost on them though.

Lars is a smart man in the sense that he made himself a lot of money throughout this process.
 
Yeah, Embracer's likely going to be offloading some of these studios in the coming months. Personally, I don't want MS to get all of those studios you mentioned, but that's mainly because I want future Tomb Raider, Hitman, and Metro games to remain multiplatform, if at all possible. However, MS would likely be a better steward than Embracer.

Personally, im 100% in favor of Microsoft acquiring development studios and/or publishers because first and foremost, they're in a spending mood which is great for Xbox fans like me because it took them long enough and better late than never as I don't ever want to see Microsoft in an Xbox One era again with only 5 studios. Second, under Microsoft, they'll get more money, time and resources to make the games they want to make and third, every game is guaranteed to go on Game Pass day one which is great for me as a consumer first and gamer second.

Not only that but what would you rather have? Microsoft acquiring those studios and them being exclusive to the Xbox platform or Embracer potentially shutting them down to where they don't exist anymore. For me, the choice is easy because the studios, people in them, the games and me as a consumer all benefit.

Hitman IP is owned by Embracer? That can't be right.
 
Hitman IP is owned by Embracer? That can't be right.
IOI went independent and took the IP with them before Square Enix sold off their Western holdings, so it isn't part of the package of Eidos.

The other main exception is Just Cause, which is still retained by Square Enix (with another game coming but not officially announced).
 
IOI went independent and took the IP with them before Square Enix sold off their Western holdings, so it isn't part of the package of Eidos.

The other main exception is Just Cause, which is still retained by Square Enix (with another game coming but not officially announced).
Also, SE held on to Gex for some reason?! I think they kept Fear Effect too though it's remaster was recently canceled by Forever Entertainment.

The only properties we know CDE took to Embracer for sure are Tomb Raider, Deus Ex, Thief and Legacy of Kain iirc.
 
Also, SE held on to Gex for some reason?! I think they kept Fear Effect too though it's remaster was recently canceled by Forever Entertainment.

The only properties we know CDE took to Embracer for sure are Tomb Raider, Deus Ex, Thief and Legacy of Kain iirc.

Huh, looks like the Gex thing is probably due to an unannounced Square Enix Collective game? If it was funded or contracted before the Embracer deal it would kind of have to be left out of the deal unless Embracer wanted to commit to contract for a 2024/2025 Gex game (lol).

"Although Gex 3 was the last game in the Gex series to date, developer Square Enix, who holds the rights to the franchise, announced in 2013 that they would be holding a "Square Enix Collective" program in which they would give budding game developers opportunities to develop a new game in one of three different series – among which was Gex, alongside Fear Effect and Anachronox.[45] The program began in 2015, with Square opening itself up to pitches from independent developers.[46]"
 
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